There is no avoiding the intersection between spirituality and politics, especially when one belongs to a religious minority that is still literally demonized.
Don’t back down and don’t slack off. As you say, the times call for it from every rooftop.

I have no hopes that the Democrats will do much of anything. Especially with news coming out that Pelosi and other Democrats on the Intelligence Committee knew about the techniques to be used before they even started using them, and that they had not objected at the time. And if we apply the rule of law beyond the way we treat war prisoners, I see little evidence for support of rule of law by the Obama administration in the area of economics. We typically don’t think that ignoring rule of law in favor of “distributive justice” or in regards to CEOs is all that bad, but if they are willing to ignore the rule of law there, when where else? We need to fight against those who wish to and do subvert rule of law whoever and whenever it is.
Actually, I think you made a mistake in comparing Boehner to the communists, though. I once heard or read somewhere that the difference between a national socialist and an international socialist is that the national socialist kills other people, while international socialists kill their own people. I suppose one could apply this to torture as well. Or to who you chose not to apply the rule of law to.

I’m glad that there are pagans openly discussing politics, both online and offline. I’d like to see more of it, actually.
Though you and I are pretty much diametrically opposed when it comes to politics and culture, I’m glad to see you intelligently contribute to pagan political discussions. I say keep up with what you’re doing.

As one of those culture warriors Guz isn’t too fond of, I find it grossly offensive that people opine no overlap should exist between politics and spirituality, as though we’re somehow beyond or inapplicable to the political world. This smacks of elitism and an oddball understanding of spirituality as I perceive it; yet what the hell do I know. I’m just A Christian (I think)

Don’t keep politics, or any other topic, off the table! The whole value of a blog like this is to offer a view of everything in our culture from an explicitly pagan perspective. You don’t pretend its THE official pagan view on any thing because there isn’t any such thing. It’s one guy’s take on everything, backed by some significant life experience at being a pagan and just plain being in the world.
Ideally, its a starting point and sort of a sounding board for any ideas. It should be a golden opportunity for anyone and everyone to second it, or counter it outright, or hopefully come up with some angle none of us have ever though of. Debate, true debate, is a real art form and one very much at risk of extinction in our current culture of talk show screaming, chat room flaming and schools that dont’ even attempt to teach logic or critical thinking skills. That is our loss. It has made the public sphere a much uglier and less interesting place, and it has led us as a society to debase ourselves before war criminals and Wall Street thieves who knew how to pull the levers of fear and greed in the lowest animal part of our brains. There really are ways to construct an impassioned but reasoned argument on any of these topics, and even to get some artful digs in at each other without getting vicious.
There’s plenty of room for disagreement about the wars, and economic policy. Being pagan doesn’t mean you have to, or should stump for the Democrats. On the other had, I’d love to see any cogent argument as to how any person with Earth-centered spirituality could reconcile that with the Neocon vision of perpetual war, predatory economics and Dominionist Christian theocracy. I’m not being facetious. If there’s a good argument on that point, bring it forward, as long as it’s something more substantive than calling me a prissy liberal with too much time on his hands. (I’ll concede that point straight off)!

As I said in my previous comment, I like seeing stuff like this. The only thing I was concerned about was the comment to the comment, which sounded a lot like one of my fellow educators trying to educate a student. That said, I’m glad that you wrote this up – I’m especially fond of your statement,
“Some people deserve bad mouthing as terrible examples of human beings and terrible examples of American citizens.”
and your statement afterwards that we need to let each other know that we’re all together in this as Pagans, well, I agree whole-heartedly, and perhaps I was too quick in my own comments on the matter.
Still enjoying reading,
-G

It is your blog. You may say what you please. As far as I am concerned though, compassion is part of our path and the neo-cons are small and mean and lack that virtue entirely.

We feminists say: The personal is the political.

By the way, my post started out much longer but your verification software tends not to recognize the verification even when I enter the correct characters after a refresh.

“Some people deserve bad mouthing as terrible examples of human beings and terrible examples of American citizens.”
I agree Gus! Some religious groups already take the position that only they have anything relevant to say about politics and everything American.
We need to have our voice in the mix as well. Granted, there is a lot of varying opinions in the Pagan community and we don’t always agree but it needs to be there anyway!
I’m one of those Pagans who if I encounter some in my face about my religion, I’ll push back. I think we need to take a stand and make our voices heard!
Silence is oblivion in this country.
Jaundicedi,
I’ve encountered the same problem, so I type my thoughts on a word doc and paste it in so I don’t lose my thoughts or comments. The time out sucks!

Wow my very own post, how can I not respond.
The Republicans could not have done what they did without the support and collaboration with the Democrats. Pelosi and the majority of Democrats refused to oppose and even supported most of Bush’s tyrannical edicts. You may not like that everyone doesn’t nod and praise your intelligence but too bad. If you don’t want dissenting opinions, you should disable comments on your posts. I am fully aware that you have non-political posts and I have quite enjoyed reading them or I would not bother subscribing to this blogs rss feed. I would like to see more of those kinds of posts. Who cares if the out of power republicans like to demonize Obama. If the dems had actually stood up for the constitution that they swore to defend, maybe we would not be in as much trouble as we are in now. The opposition party should actually oppose bad actions of the other party not go along with them.

I think you should say what you believe, on politics or any other topic.
I disagree intensely with some of your beliefs, and I cannot share your thealogy. But I appreciate that you address important topics with both clarity and passion. Too few people do this. I have learned from you. I hope you will keep writing.

How odd!
Attacking the blog for “defending democrats” when they weren’t even mentioned — standard neo-con bushwah
Politics is something which exists whenver there are more than two people involved. It comes to humanity and its societies as natural as breathing, whether some of us want to become proficient in the manipulative games of politics or not.
Personally I hate power politics, whether in the workplace, the church/coven/circle/whatever, the family/extended family, or the government we once hoped would be for “We the people.”
Unfortunately, there are all too many egotistical people who firmly believe that they should be king (by whatever name) and will lie, cheat, steal, bribe, and even kill to obtain power over others. Some are content to rule over their own little frog pond, while others lust for rulership over an empire.
Thanks to all of the evils in the system of political incumbency as it has evolved in our “legal” system, we have a congress filled with 535 people who behave as if they are “Princes” of America, superior to the commoners who voted them there, who see all the perks of office as nothing but the beginning of what “belongs” to them. And the fawning sycophants hoping to benefit from whatever crumbs drop from these princes in exchange for all the additional perks that they can deliver outside of the law. Lobbying presents another corrupting influence.
I know that a lot of people seek office because of idealism. Very few of them are actually still idealists in more than campaign rhetoric once they have been re-elected a time or two. Learning and practicing the skills of a professional liar in order to become a successful career politician does further damage to their former idealist beliefs.
I don’t know who or what you are, mike, but what you have presented of yourself in your posts over the past few days definitely defines you as a troll with at least heavy neo-con “values”.
Keep writing Gus. There are many topics which intersect each other to one degree or another. Unfortunately, the politics of “power over” is currently one of the larger threats to the survival of species.

Religion and politics have been in bed since someone came up with religion – because that was also the moment someone came up with politics. By simply having a religious thought, you have a political thought, and by simply being some sort of polytheist in the US where the most “acceptable” tolerance is “there can be only 3″ (kinds of monotheism) you are, by default, a subversive.
It’s a risk you take. It’s your obligation to speak your mind – it is not your obligation to make everyone happy.

Ananta Androscoggin, obviously, has no idea what a neocon is. As to my theology, not really relevant since I didn’t critique anyone elses. I’m not Christian, if that is what you’re trying to get at. Like I said, I enjoyed the non-politic centered posts. There are many other blogs who are able to avoid irrelevant political posts. A relevant post would be something like, some state passing a bill that impacted pagans. Police acting as Christian secret police. Those would be relevant topics. The problem may be that I am sensitive to certain political topics and since I access the articles through an RSS feed. I am not seeing the tags as prominently. Better descriptive titles for the articles may help.
Gus has many good things to say. I however will speak my mind and if someone is offended, I really don’t care.
I don’t agree that politics and religion are inextricably intertwined. Whenever politics and religion combine, much evil occurs. Just look at what happened with the Neocons and what is happening with the Neolibs. That is what happens when religion and politics combine. The linking of religion and politics is a Greek/Roman/Middle eastern outlook. My experience is, it is quite possible to not mix the two.

Ananta Androscoggin, obviously, has no idea what a neocon is. As to my theology, not really relevant since I didn’t critique anyone elses. I’m not Christian, if that is what you’re trying to get at. Like I said, I enjoyed the non-politic centered posts. There are many other blogs who are able to avoid irrelevant political posts. A relevant post would be something like, some state passing a bill that impacted pagans. Police acting as Christian secret police. Those would be relevant topics. The problem may be that I am sensitive to certain political topics and since I access the articles through an RSS feed. I am not seeing the tags as prominently. Better descriptive titles for the articles may help.
Gus has many good things to say. I however will speak my mind and if someone is offended, I really don’t care.
I don’t agree that politics and religion are inextricably intertwined. Whenever politics and religion combine, much evil occurs. Just look at what happened with the Neocons and what is happening with the Neolibs. That is what happens when religion and politics combine. The linking of religion and politics is a Greek/Roman/Middle eastern outlook. My experience is, it is quite possible to not mix the two.

One of the things that I’ve noticed is that people who object to religious bodies or their leaders making pronouncements on political issues do so only when said prounouncements disagree with their own views. They apparently have no objection when a religious body or leader makes political statements with which they agree.

The Pagan community, and really the world, needs more intelligent discussion about every facet of life. I really appreciate the Pagans who are putting out rational discourse from a Western, non-monotheistic yet religious POV. I want places where I can better understand my reading of the NY Times, etc. from a polytheistic, non-evangelical viewpoint. It does change the philosophical ground to view torture from an immanent divine perspective. And it’s important that we work to understand the whole world, not just the Pagan issues.

If religion shapes your worldview, and worldview shapes your politics… How can you *really* separate the two?
Unless religion is something you do only on the holy days, wear a kilt and prance around a maypole or bonfire, then sure, I guess it’s a simple distinction to be made. (NOT suggesting that anyone in this thread does so, just an exaggerated example!!) But when religion shapes your worldview, and this colors your choices, (consumer, career, relationships) it’s not easy to realize any boundary between the two.
I personally would love to see more Pagan political discourse!! We need some other voices besides Starhawk, lol.

If one is in fact a full human being, one cannot cease from speaking on politics, art, literature, society, culture, science, history, relationships, etc. as well as religion. Otherwise we are compartmentalizing our lives in an unhealthy way. Of course, one can also combine these things in unhealthy ways as well. Health should be what we are all aiming at in the fullness of our lives.

To answer the topic question, yes.
I come here for religion, spirituality and theology. I can go to other blogs for politics.

Gus, I don’t think this blog is too political. I come here for religion, spirituality and theology too, but I also know that politics affects EVERY part of my life.
My Pagan group discusses politics when we get together. So does my family around the dinner table. I don’t see why we can’t do it here as well. Although I don’t always comment on the political posts in your blog I do read them and think about what others have said. I enjoy comments from a Pagan perspective which doesn’t always happen in “other blogs”. Anyone who doesn’t want to read the political posts in your blog can easily skip them. Maybe start the titles with “Political” so that those who don’t like them easily know what to skip.

Is this blog too political?
It’s interesting that I’ve chosen to join not one but two religious movements that do, typically, concern themselves a lot with political matters: Paganism and Quakers. It’s especially interesting given the fact that, of all the things I need from my religious community, political discussion is not actually high on the list.
Yes, I know that in the Pagan view, the embodied sacredness of this world and this moment makes it inevitable that we should be involved with the politics of the world. I wouldn’t have it any other way! And I’m downright proud of how ubiquitous Quakers are at any kind of peace demonstration or action, and glad to see Pagans becoming more articulate and activist on matters of peace and environmentalism, too.
But it’s not just liberal ideology that unites my two spiritual homes, but an experiential orientation toward religion. For both Pagans and Quakers, religion is something you do, gods are something you engage with… not something to believe in in a dry and intellectual manner.
There are many places it’s possible to find intelligent political commentary. In fact, it’s my impression that even specifically Pagan blogs are more often oriented toward politics than toward religious experience… and that’s where I have an issue. I am hungry for more reminders to the Pagan world (and to me) that our religion is not notional, but rather rock-my-world, blow-my-socks-off, wake-me-up to smell-the-coffee experiential.
I know from your writing that you have felt those astonishing moments of revelation and direct encounter with the Goddess. I know from my own writing how hard it is to put that kind of encounter into words at all. But I see the Pagan movement as in danger of becoming theoretical and dry if we don’t somehow share the word that these gods we’re talking about aren’t just “nice ideas”, but are in fact echoes of the deepest levels of real there is, and, to paraphrase the Quaker expression, they have “come to teach their people themselves.” I want us not to settle for anything less!
Not that the politics don’t matter. And, given the amount of political writing you have always done, those who decided your voice would be good to invite into Beliefnet must have thought the political aspect of our practice belonged.
But for my taste? A little more ineffability would serve me better. (Mind you, that’s perhaps more my job to provide than yours, if that’s my leading. But since you asked…)

Cat C-B, Thank you for reminding us of the Friends who have dine so much good for so long.

Ok, first of all, it’s your blog so you get to decide what to post. Second, considering the state of affairs these days, how in the ever-lovin’ blue-eyed world can anything be too political? I mean, we live in this world! And it is fabulous, and it is sacred, and, if we don’t develop a passionate interest in how we’re living and how decisions are made, it could be over way too soon. I think any responsible discussion about life on earth now needs to include the sacred and the political.
That said, personally I could do with more poetry…

Gus,
I read this blog for the politics not the Paganism.
Your border-crossing views are very interesting to me.
Thanks and keep up the good work.