A Pagan's Blog

A Pagan's Blog

United States Not a Christian Nation

posted by Gus diZerega | 7:43pm Tuesday April 14, 2009

Michael Lind has written a wonderful piece over at Salon on how America is Not a Christian Nation.   Go on over and have a read!  It has some good history in it that if it had ever been taught might be saving us much current misery.



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Troy Camplin

posted April 14, 2009 at 11:53 pm


He’s absolutely right. Of course, this also isn’t an anti-Christian nation nor an un-Christian nation (nor is it nor should it ever be an anti-Muslim, anti-Pagan, anti-Buddhist, anti-Hindu, etc. nation). Certainly the 1st Amendment does not allow the government to set up a state-recognized and -supported religion, but that does not and should not prevent religious access, such as in providing chaplains. Nor should it prevent people from expressing what is in fact a deep human instinct and need in expressing religious faith.



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Maggie

posted April 15, 2009 at 4:24 am


I’d love to see a longer post about the Deists and Unitarians among the Founding Fathers … and perhaps some commentary on the letters of Abigail Adams and other Founding Mothers.
From my perspective not only is this not a Christian nation, but the Founding Fathers held relatively diverse views for the time, and got along with one another well in forming this experimental government.



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Your Name

posted April 15, 2009 at 11:41 am


I think both you and Michael Lind both meant to say “United States not specifically a Christian nation” unless you were going for a FoxNews flaming headline. The use of adjectives can add power and precision to your writing. This is your writing tip of the day.



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BookhouseGal

posted April 15, 2009 at 5:22 pm


From the quoted article.
“Here’s George Washington in a letter to the Hebrew Congregation of Newport, Rhode Island in 1790: “The citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy — a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States,
which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance,
requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support … May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants — while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid.”
For General Washington. President.
Honors, hup. :)
And so mote it be, yaknow?
Emphasis added.



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BookhouseGal

posted April 15, 2009 at 6:08 pm


.Not that I much go in for the authority of words, but, that’s my America talking.
You know it when you see it. If someone takes it upon themselves to ‘prove’ that demagoguery and specific religions should hold more sway….we know that, too.
Everyone knows it.
We Pagans are some of the seeds that Liberty tended, fed, and nurtured on these shores.
We are these little seeds brought from strange places and half-remembrances and all manner of scuffling about it all. Cause someone had a little faith in the future.
We grow, when so many others would call us ‘pests’ and make mere pesticide of not only their own God, but our American heritage.
They fear much, offer little, then claim our very dear Liberty was really ‘meant’ to be just another excuse for people to take power in the name of a Bible.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, not against any terrifying heterodoxy of whatever kkind or another, but against those fears which make us forget what we’re supposed to be defending.
Not allegiance suborned to be about ‘a God’ …but to each other. And may that please any and all Gods who are friends to our people.
Call it an act of faith, but we can, peoples of the world fall upon each other with books and authorities and fears and point objects *any* old time. That had all been done before when this nation was new.
We can agree to do this American thing, as our forefathers did, with few conditions, but nigh-infinite hope.
America is about….believing if any of what we do matters, it’s not going to matter any more or less if we make it about fear of each other.
It’s about we all get together on this. As equals. And as equal as we can refine ourselves to be.
Or it won’t work.
Already our nation has done what was at the time counted *impossible.*
Let’s go with it.
Like General Washington said.
Like we mean it.
Even if it hurts. Or scares us. Or someone offers an ‘easier answer.’
Cause those easy answers have a history of not working.
Frankly, if we’re to be defeated by some ‘foreigners,’ let’s be defeated for what we *really are.* Like Washington says.
Christians shouldn’t ask me to, out of fear, be a fanatic for …what, nothing different, nothing with a plan, nothing with a solution, nothing with a hope.
Shouldn’t talk to each other like I’m a great place to displace their anxiety, either.
This nonsense that has frightened and dividen our nation these past ten years has gone far enough. In fact, is receding, ….but some don’t seem to realize what these tides of ‘opinion’ have been washing *over.8
Pardon the ranting, but the news media don’t get it. The pundits don’t get it. Religious and political leaders have largely *forgotten how* to distinguish religion and politics, insiders and outsiders. If there’s good in any and all of our religions, and our persons, and Gods-help-us, *America….*
Lady Liberty says, of what we made from contentious beginnings, ‘Give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.’
What do those trying to rewrite our American heritage have to say about those huddled masses?
Nothing good.
Not. Our. Country. Anyway, not by standards of books and authorities and empires.
But a promise was crafted. By us. As people. We can cleave to that or wonder with GWB why we aren’t ‘respected’ for thinking we’re better than the rest of the battle royal out there.
If we’re gonna be America, how bout American rules. Preachers are just another dude, whatever book they wave or hat they wear.
How bout America?
Right?



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Garnett

posted June 4, 2010 at 1:25 pm


Depends what you mean by christian nation.what are we using here for a reference?dont say the bible ..thats too broad.give me the passages you are taking from.and how are you applying those?to whos standard?ours?It seems to always be ours.to a God we create in our mind cause we cant live with the real one,hes just not agreeing with us and we cant have that sort of God.we need a God for our egos.



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