In a lively talk McGraw explained that neither the religious right nor the secular left really understands the Founders' thinking on church and state. Secularists argue religion should be purely private, the right that we are a Christian country. This is why both sides throw quotations around so freely, quotations that seem to contradict one another. They ignore the context of the quotations they sling about. As she put it, both sides "are half right and half wrong."
From John Locke, through the Founders, the view was that God communicated in many ways. God's relationship with people could be through conscience, revelation, nature, and reason. Freedom of conscience was vital, because only with it could people be free to enter into the relationship with God in a way that seemed good to them. Locke explicitly included Jews, Muslims, Indians, and Pagans. He was echoed by our Founders, who went beyond Locke to also include atheists, who could listen to their conscience.
In contrast to the 'Christian' Right, and most practices before our founding, God's inspiration and guidance was seen as coming from the ground up, not from the top down. This was why John Adams could write our constitution was made for a moral or religious people, and James Madison emphasized the need for "virtue." Freedom was not for private happiness primarily, it was for seeking the happiness of everyone.
Freedom of religion was not intended to make religion private, but rather to enable Americans to enter into "a great conversation" about the good society. Religion was intended to inform and motivate our actions because only through inputs by all people of good conscience could a self-governing society be a good society. The Civil Rights movement, with its serious involvement by many denominations, would be an example of the Founder's hopes showing life.
From the Founders' point of view, the growing religious pluralism in American society would be a good thing, enlarging the perspective that could contribute to a good society. Madison made it explicit, pointing out that when there was great diversity, on balance agreement could be reached among people mostly on measures that would benefit the community as a whole, because no single group, be it religious or otherwise, would be able to have its way while sacrificing the well-being of others.
From John Locke, through the Founders, the view was that God communicated in many ways. God's relationship with people could be through conscience, revelation, nature, and reason. Freedom of conscience was vital, because only with it could people be free to enter into the relationship with God in a way that seemed good to them. Locke explicitly included Jews, Muslims, Indians, and Pagans. He was echoed by our Founders, who went beyond Locke to also include atheists, who could listen to their conscience.
In contrast to the 'Christian' Right, and most practices before our founding, God's inspiration and guidance was seen as coming from the ground up, not from the top down. This was why John Adams could write our constitution was made for a moral or religious people, and James Madison emphasized the need for "virtue." Freedom was not for private happiness primarily, it was for seeking the happiness of everyone.
Freedom of religion was not intended to make religion private, but rather to enable Americans to enter into "a great conversation" about the good society. Religion was intended to inform and motivate our actions because only through inputs by all people of good conscience could a self-governing society be a good society. The Civil Rights movement, with its serious involvement by many denominations, would be an example of the Founder's hopes showing life.
From the Founders' point of view, the growing religious pluralism in American society would be a good thing, enlarging the perspective that could contribute to a good society. Madison made it explicit, pointing out that when there was great diversity, on balance agreement could be reached among people mostly on measures that would benefit the community as a whole, because no single group, be it religious or otherwise, would be able to have its way while sacrificing the well-being of others.
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Okay, I AM Canadian, but by MY math, America was founded just shy of 233 years ago. July 4th, 1776 right?! Good points Thomas, but credibility is somewhat destroyed by such inaccuracies.
Re Cassaundra: what inaccuracies?
You are correct in the age of the United States and we are approaching the 250th anniversary of the country. It's 17 years away and it's the next major national birthday.
The "Great Experiment" was designed -- as in deliberately constructed -- to establish a living government based on foundational principles. It was, contrary to what some Christian determinists would have it, set up in opposition to any even mildly theocratic pressure.
This, on the surface, makes it secular and nothing else. However, McGraw makes the important point, and if some would wish to offer rebuttal is should be to that point: pluralism was the guiding principle, and the founders succeeded in making pluralism possible.
Yes, they failed to establish pluralism from the beginning. Yes, the nascent government jumped with both feet onto the very principles they espoused during the Revolution. But here we are, 233 years later, and the foundational principles remain strong... and we are just as capable of screwing them up as the founders were, so I suggest we consider ourselves in Good Company. ;-)
Thomas go back and read your own post -- you said "the hundred and fifty years"; you obviously meant "two hundred".
It is amazing that the concepts our Founders put forth so long ago are still in place for the most part. They foresaw changes and thus incorporated the allowance of Amendments to address them. However, they could not have foreseen the myriad of lobbyists, religious and otherwise, that infiltrate our government now. Our representatives are supposed to be our "lobbyists"; if anyone ever listened to my advice I would say to eliminate ALL lobbyists, period. And religious groups would have no input into the running of our country.
Paraphrasing what Ben Franklin is reported to have said, "You have a Republic, if you can keep it".
Re: Cassaundra
Upon re-reading, you are correct. I omitted the word "two" in my first comment.
However, a typo on a weblog comment doesn't destroy one's credibility any more than pausing while speaking does.
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