A Pagan's Blog

A Pagan's Blog

Are the Gods in Us?

posted by Gus diZerega | 1:32pm Thursday November 12, 2009

Some interesting comments about my “Drawing Down the Moon”
piece in “12 Things…” have prompted me to offer a longer discussion, based mostly on
my personal experience. 


Are the Gods in us or outside us?  So much depends on what we mean by “us.”  I became Wiccan after I encountered the
Goddess, and She was most definitely outside me, a separate personality.  I was a guest at my first Sabbat, not
in a particularly open frame of mind (I was compulsively punctual and this was
an example of Pagan Standard Time at its worst) and was standing far from the
center of the action.  Her arrival
came immediately after She was invoked. 
Like flicking a light switch.

I encountered the Goddess that time when She was being drawn
down into the priestess.  The
experience had every dimension of encountering Someone quite different from
myself: wiser, more loving, more powerful, more beautiful – and all to many
orders of magnitude.  We had enough
in common that I could recognize those qualities as perfections of what I
carried as seeds or small shoots.

Much later the same being, or so She seems to me, made a
shorter but more personal contact when She was drawn down into a high priestess
in a Esbat.  There was one other
time of strong contact and a few others not so strong, almost entirely
unexpected and sometimes separate from ritual of any sort.  In none of them was She ‘in’ me in the
way She would be in a Priestess drawing down the moon.

When the God was drawn down on me,
my experience was of a being very different from me – imagine masculinity minus
any fears, insecurities, desires to control, etc., etc – that I was changed by
the encounter.  My teacher in these
matters describes these experiences as a “tuning” where our vibrations,
so to speak, are drawn into greater harmony with the Gods – a bit by bit
process to be sure, but one that fits my experience.

Again, speaking from my
experience, the gods do not come equally strongly to everyone or to any one all
the time.  They appear to have
their own agendas.  They can appear
unexpectedly and fail to appear when expected.  But almost always they appear in ritual space.

Last February I was on a panel at
Pantheacon. http://www.pantheacon.com/  We were asked to discuss the nature of
the Gods.  One thing that a great
many of us agreed about – and no one challenged – was that an encounter with
deity was an encounter with something that seemed more real than we were or
this world was.  Thos was not a
denigration on our part of either the world or ourselves but rather an
acknowledgement of the extraordinary qualities of deities.

This can only plausibly be a “Thou art Goddess Thou art God”
kind of experience from a monistic perspective – we contact what lies at our
deepest core – and while I happen to be a monist, using the same reasoning, you
are me and I am you.  I think there
is a sense where that is true, importantly true – but there is an important
sense where it misses the point. 
To live in this world I need to differentiate between you and me, and
similarly, I need to differentiate between myself and a God.

Other Traditions

My view is strengthened by the long existence of other Pagan
traditions centered on incorporating deities and spirits into humans during
ritual time.

I will never forget the first time I was a guest at a
Brazilian Umbanda drumming ceremony. 
I sat in the back because I was unsure what was going on, and wanted
simply to watch.  As the drumming
got stronger I found my body was twitching.  “Energy releases” I thought, and tried to sit still.  They got stronger, until the man in
charge, who was in trance with a Caboclo, a kind of Indian spirit, suddenly
stopped the drumming, and wordlessly motioned for me to come forward.

I got up and walked up to where he was, completely convinced
that I was considered disruptive and would be asked to leave. Instead, he
touched my forehead and the nape of my neck, and motioned for the drummers to
begin again.  When they did, my
feet started dancing – but I was not involved.  I had the impression that with great will I could probably
stop, but was too amazed and fascinated to do that.  I went along with it, dancing alone in front of a crowd who
I scarcely knew.  This was about as
out of character as it could be.  I was an still am far too shy (as well as being a mediocre dancer) for that kinds thing.

The guy in charge knew what was likely to happen, I had
absolutely no idea.  At that point
no one else had entered into possessory trance.  No words were exchanged between us.  I ended up working closely with him for
6 years, but that’s another story.

In the Brazilian traditions, and African Diasporic
traditions generally, different spirits are associated with all manner of
things.  The same is true for
traditions in Asia, the Americas, and elsewhere.  Some are Gods and Goddesses, some were human, some are
powers of nature, some seems mixes of these qualities.  But while some of their behavior seems
clearly tailored for the tradition of which they are a part, the basic
phenomena encountered in trance do not seem to be simply parts of our inner
psyches.

I do not want to carry this discussion into too much depth
and sublety because we are discussing concepts which themselves have no settled
meaning.  What is our inner psyche,
our inner self, consciousness, and so on. 
But I experience these beings as quite independent of myself, and see
little experiential evidence that they are part of me, unless I assume my
psyche/self/spirit has firm boundaries, and that awareness cannot exist outside
of what we consider a physical body. 
I think both of these assumptions are mistaken.



Previous Posts

Where to in 2010?
I have not been doing much political posting for many months, ever since I finally gave up hope that the Democrats, with a few exceptions, amounted to anything  more than a somewhat more humane version of the moral filth that the Republicans now represent. Of course I will vote Democratic in Novemb

posted 5:29:00pm Feb. 04, 2012 | read full post »

Delving into the meaning of Brigid
In 2010 I wrote in this blog “Imbolc is one of the less intensely celebrated Sabbats, I think because it has fewer real world connections in our lives.  In most places the coming Spring Equinox, Ostara, is well suited to its symbolism of the triumph of the sun and powers of growth and regeneratio

posted 1:03:27am Jan. 31, 2012 | read full post »

Important scientific argument that the world and everything in it is alive
UPDATE  below Science Daily reports on a new theory by Erik D. Andrulis that if true demonstrates the earth is alive.  The peer reviewed journal Life has just published Theory of the Origin, Evolution, and Nature of Life, which argues the earth is alive . Andrulis writes: "In the theory pro

posted 7:10:06pm Jan. 27, 2012 | read full post »

A Pagan in the Buckle: thoughts on my time at a Pentecostal service
I have been slow in writing this post because I have wanted to do my experience justice.  In late November I crossed the country, stopping off in Lawrence Kansas for Thanksgiving with family before returning to California.  Starting from the east coast, on my way to Kansas I visited friends who ha

posted 12:28:11am Jan. 24, 2012 | read full post »

What's with all the fuss about SOPA and PIPA?
A friend of mine well versed in these matters and appreciative of problems on both sides has recommended this analysis as the best she has come across for understanding the issues at stake and why we should care.

posted 12:34:32pm Jan. 18, 2012 | read full post »

Advertisement
Comments read comments(11)
post a comment
Cheryl Hill

posted November 12, 2009 at 3:42 pm


I believe the Gods are in us in the form of a “Divine Spark” that is our life force. Imagine someone taking a drop of water from the Atlantic ocean and putting it into a flask. Yes it contains the water of that ocean. But it is not “The Atlantic Ocean” in that little flask. And when we die, our little spark – i.e., that little drop of water, goes back to its Source to move on to it’s next journey.
That’s why the Goddess can come to me even though She’s already part of me. It is the little spark within me that resonates and connects with Her to allow me to experience the encounter.



report abuse
 

Hecate Demetersdatter

posted November 12, 2009 at 5:20 pm


And, yet, I still think that we speak the truth when we say: Thou art goddess/thou art god.



report abuse
 

Cheryl Hill

posted November 12, 2009 at 8:42 pm


Well Hecate, I do have my moments ;-D



report abuse
 

apuleius platonicus

posted November 12, 2009 at 9:50 pm


“Some think that the soul pervades the whole universe, whence perhaps came Thales’s view that everything is full of gods.”
Aristotle



report abuse
 

Janus

posted November 13, 2009 at 10:42 am


I do not say that the gods are inside me or outside me. The gods ARE ME.
They are not separate beings.
When I say, “I am God,” or “I am Goddess,” I mean precisely that.
And that was why I commented in that other thread that I don’t see the point in “drawing down from outside that which is already within.”
But everyone has his own way of looking at things, too. And what works for me does not necessarily work for someone else. And probably the best thing we as pagans do is allow others the personal space in which to be whatever it is we are, and in our own manner, without interference or condemnation.
Biodh Se!



report abuse
 

Cheryl Hill

posted November 13, 2009 at 12:35 pm


Janus, whatever works for you is fine with me, please don’t take any of my comments as a condemnation of those who are of a different mindset.
I just can’t see *myself* as the Goddess without having Her graciously consent to being drawn down. I have far too many flaws and limitations to view myself as God/dess in all the fullness that it means to me.
But YMMV :)



report abuse
 

Kirk Thomas

posted November 13, 2009 at 1:29 pm


I think many Neopagans are monists. I’m not, however. I’ve usually experienced Deity as outside myself (but I also remember that some ancient deities started out as human, so by that measure any of us could ‘become’ a deity).
I was ‘ridden’ once, by Freyr. I don’t remember a lot about the experience because He pushed me out of the way, as it were, and took over. I understand Their power, and respect it greatly, but I don’t welcome that aspect of experience of Them particularly.
My usual experience of the Spirits (Gods, Ancestors, Spirits of the Land) is quite intense, and occasionally ecstatic. But They don’t ‘fill’ me so much as ‘surround’ me.
It’s possible that we’re describing similar experiences but from different points of view. I suspect that what we get out of experience is based on what we take in to it.



report abuse
 

Ant C.

posted November 13, 2009 at 3:10 pm


Today’s post is why I read this blog. While Gus certainly likes writing about politics and it is his right to do that, I most enjoy the posts about paganism; his personal experiences and history of the current movement.



report abuse
 

JohnFranc

posted November 13, 2009 at 10:34 pm


I agree with Ant C. – this is why I read this blog and other Pagan blogs.
I’ve had a similar experience, and it’s led me to a similar conclusion. Ultimately, All is One, but I experience the Gods and Goddesses as separate beings, just as I experience other people as separate beings.



report abuse
 

Albert the Abstainer

posted November 16, 2009 at 8:35 am


Perhaps it is fractal with self-similarity resulting in the archetypes/gods being experienced.
While I generally avoid talismans due to the tendency to make idols of them, the vestment of a form with sacredness is a tool for the psyche. I see ritual forms in this way.
My own experiences suggest that at the base is something deeply ancient, very powerful, unifying, infusing, and yet very alien to our normal states. When that breaks through it is breathtaking; being both wholly other and deeply intimate.
I think that fragrance and music reach very deeply and can invoke powerful states. Entheogens also have their uses; when treated with reverence as gateways into the realms of sacredness. But, to use them carelessly, carries with it certain risks. One should not enter a gateway without surrendering to the keeper the required toll.



report abuse
 

Pat

posted November 17, 2009 at 7:24 am


I once ‘felt’ that the energy or essense of Inanna entered me while having wonderful sex with my Hubby, He and I was quite surprised by the visitation, and we both really enjoyed the experience. I felt ‘her’ to be quite a different energy than me, most definitely.



report abuse
 

Post a Comment

By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.

Share this story


About Beliefnet

Our mission is to help people like you find, and walk, a spiritual path that will bring comfort, hope, clarity, strength, and happiness. More about Beliefnet.

Help

Media Kit

Subscribe

Legal

Copyright © Beliefnet, Inc. and/or its licensors. All rights reserved. Use of this site is subject to Terms of Service and to our Privacy Policy. Constructed by Beliefnet.

Advertisement

Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.