The generation born into a world that already contains the Internet are not going to be joining secretive covens. Younger people who find their way to witchcraft are going to be doing so through the Internet, learning the Craft largely through the Internet, and interacting with other pagans and witches mostly through this medium. This is what they know, and it dominates their social landscape.
It strikes me that most people coming to the Craft are doing so while seeking a closer connection to nature. Largely, you see witches who are leaning more toward druidry than Gardnerian witchcraft. Recently, I saw some photos of Janet Farrar’s indoctrination to Alexandrian witchcraft, and I thought to myself that it was just so far away from the witchcraft that I see and read represented widely on the Net.
I can certainly see older, established covens, who came out of the closet in the last ten or so years going back underground. The essay and this topic seems to perpetuate the “real” witch vs. the fake self-taught solitary witchcraft war of words that is a constant, especially on the Internet.
Today’s youth is not concerned with privacy or secretiveness. Just looking at Facebook should tell you that. The youth of today seem to want everyone to know everything about them, what they are doing, where they are, and what they will be doing an hour from now.

“I recently took the Pagan census and found the questions difficult to answer as a traditional Gardnerian.  They just didn’t include many of the things that I take for granted about my theology, life, and practice.”
I found the same true as a practicing heathen, as did all the members of the group with whom I worship who took the survey; I think that taken together we probably wrote a novella’s worth of comments during our individual survey responses. Many of the questions don’t make much sense, and many of the possible pre-generated answers/opinions don’t accurately reflect my practice and belief system. Nearly every heathen I know who took the survey reported much the same experience.
I had attributed it to the “Wicca of Borg” phenomenon, the Pagan=Wiccan=Witchcraft and Magic way of thinking that some folks in the neo-Pagan world seem to have, but if Gardnerian Wiccans are having similar difficulty, then I suppose it’s something else, perhaps a survey bias towards the eclectic, solitary folk you mention (which would then probably make the survey more relevant for them, giving an impression that there are more of them anyways, perhaps?).

I don’t think that coven-based Craft Trads ever lost their value to their adherents. Or their attractiveness to new seekers. I’m not surprised that folks would take up these Craft Trads.
But if they do not report their membership ups and downs, then how would any outsiders have a clue about growing numbers or lack of them?
And would such membership reports, if they were made, have any notable effect of the conclusions drawn from studies like the Pagan Census?
I mean, are coven-based Trads like the submerged portion of an iceberg? Are studies like the Pagan Census looking at or getting information only from a small portion of all Craft visible above the surface? While most remains submerged and hidden?

In reference to Patchouli Sky’s comments, I note that everyone seems so eager to assume that noting a difference is the same thing as stating that one thing is better than the other. I never said anything about a “‘real’ witch vs. the fake self-taught solitary witchcraft” dichotomy. As far as I’m concerned, Traditional Craft, eclectic Craft, and solitary Craft are all just different ways of being Witches, and it’s quite common for an individual to drift between them. Traditional Craft itself, in my opinion, has undergone dramatic changes over its lifespan. That makes neither the newer nor the older versions “better”.
In reference to Sorn Skald’s comments, I’m glad that my own comments caused him to question his “Wicca of Borg” assumptions. In my interfaith work, I constantly encounter folks who lump all Paganism together as one religion (often with the assumption that “women are Witches and men are Druids”). The fact that most of the Neopagans doing interfaith work are Witches, and that most of them are Traditionalists of some flavor, has tended to result in outsiders seeing Traditionalist Craft as the “default” and assuming every Pagan fits this model. This is in spite of the fact that all of us doing interfaith work correct these assumptions whenever we encounter them and always try to explain that each of us is only one example of the great diversity that is Paganism. (And yes, I always try to explain that most Heathens do not like being called “Pagans” and why.) However, as long as the Traditionalists are the most visible face of Paganism, at least in interfaith, such misunderstandings will no doubt continue.
Don

I think that the line between ‘privacy’ and ‘secret’ has become blurred for many young people. Under the mantle of protecting our children, we have programmed them to not ‘keep secrets’ as this is the abusers best weapon, secrecy. We encourage confidences, we encourage family discussion and they have simply taken it one step further. While I consider the internet’s social network a pretty scary next step, it’s what we’ve developed.
Quote:
the older Traditions are actually experiencing an increase in membership (perhaps as the community ages)
Now this is a really interesting statement, at least to me personally partly because it harkens back to my above statement. I will use my own life as an example because it’s the only reference I can use with any authority.
When I joined the United Church at 12, the Catholic Church at 20 and got married at 21, I was following the structures given to me thus far in life. As the Catholicism and the marriage passed into history and I moved back into what I eventually understood was a pagan perspective, I was in no state of mind to be ‘told’ what to do. Add the bonus of ‘secret’ and you had me shying away like the plague.
The decades have passed and religion is inundating us at every turn. Everywhere there are those who would tell us how to worship and when to worship and with whom and I include the pagan paths in that too. With so many versions of paganism being touted out there, there comes a point where you want to withdraw and become more private and perhaps more structured. As one of those ‘aging’ pagans, I find myself, these past few years, thinking in these terms.
Now, that does not mean that I am rushing out to find a coven but it does mean that I find myself looking for a somewhat more structured expression of that intense sense of wonder with which I view creation. As I age, I see the coven training more as a repository of knowledge in the face of the present outpouring of dubious information and ‘authorities’ on any particular subject. That represents a considerable shift in my thinking but it also reflects the fact that at this age, I have a sense of ‘self’ that I did not have those many decades ago. I can see ‘aging pagans’ who have a strong sense of self, embracing the increased structure as a positive addition to their lives, not because they need it but because they actually want it. There’s a big difference in those two concepts. So, that statement has a ring of validity to it, in my opinion, anyway.
For what it’s worth.

In regards to the idea of new or younger Pagans seeking out eclectic groups at the expense of Traditions:
From what I’ve seen of BTW, it looks like something I want to be a part of. However, I currently live with an immediate family that is not particularly supportive of my religious choices. Thus, I’m one of those pesky solitary eclectic types, but not by choice. It’s possible that many high-school- or college-age Pagans are in a similar situation.

On the “aging pagan” end of the spectrum.
As for being attracted to the more “Traditional Paganism”……my problem has always been FINDING such. I live an hr+ North of San Francisco.
So whether I wish a Traditional Coven (secret or otherwise) or am Solitary……or somewhat inbetween (CA eclectic w/ friends)….the issue of finding such has been my basic problem. For a very long time.

Over the last 10 years or so I’ve been involved with a local (tri-state region centered on Philadelphia) Pagan organization that has been attempting to build a secular support structure from which any flavor of Paganism can derive benefits. We’ve completely failed in our primary goals, and we are currently trying to restructure the organization to move forward with our successes and bring new ideas and people into it.
Our perennial argument over those years was guesstimating just how many potential constituents we might have. We’ve wavered from some hundreds (less than 2,000) to at least 5,000 (my optimistic guess). Our financial and event numbers insist on the lower number, even as I continue to get rumors and such that insist on the higher number.
I’m one of the soon to be replaced ones. I really want the newcomers to succeed. My perception of the problem — my cynical view — is that the vast majority of Pagans just don’t want even a hint of a hierarchical structure over or around them. They want events, but they don’t want to come out of their broom closets (or whatever) to monthly meetings and planning sessions, where the real work is done to make events possible. They want to bring dishes for potlucks, but they don’t want to pay $25 (or less!) per year dues to make even minimal expense items like domain registrations or P.O. boxes possible.
Don, that is the reality I see, and it will remain an insurmountable obstacle because Pagans and the monotheisms have this glaring difference that I don’t think can be resolved: You’ve experienced time and again the assumption that Pagans are monolithic, and that is a projection of the monotheisms dependence on hierarchical structure. I’ve experienced time and again the Pagan aversion to hierarchical structures of even the most minimal sort. I would be very grateful if you could turn your experience, your gathered data (it being so very much more than I could gather) and your obvious analytical skill to this obstacle. We can mitigate it, as shown in the interfaith efforts, but it will not go away, an needs something of equal strength to balance it.

@Helen/Hawk: You might try contacting the New Wiccan Church and the Covenant of the Goddess for referrals.
There are Gardnerian and Central Valley Wicca covens in the Sacramento area, a Gardnerian study group in Oakland, and NROOGD covens in Contra Costa County. NROOGD is a bootstrap tradition but shares some practices and views with traditional Wica. I haven’t found traditional Craft in Marin County, though there are solitary witches who do public work. The Northern California Local Council of CoG has members from Santa Cruz to Sacramento.
Another way to meet and network with traditional Witches north of the SF Bay Area is to attend Pantheacon, a pan-pagan convention that takes place on President’s Day weekend in San Jose, and drop by the CoG/NROOGD/NWC hospitality suite. Many trad witches hang out there, especially in the evenings.
Although the Bay Area Craft and Pagan communities have been affected by the trends Don describes, there is a considerable amount of networking and collegiality among a range of groups and individuals, with two or three degrees of separation between old guard and avant garde. If you follow up on contacts, you have a good chance of finding what you are looking for.

Where can we find ‘the’ questionnaire? I would have taken it already if I’d seen it.

The Pagan Census survey is linked to in the main body of Don’s post; it can be found at:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=WYCq4kaxG_2bYrJ8xnemeR3A_3d_3d

I applaud the designer of the Pagan Census for allowing some space for comments, including metacomments about the survey. That partly makes up for the limitations of the questions and the standard answer choices the survey provides.
My recollection is that there were only a few questions about groups and organizations that one might belong to, and they weren’t very deep. For example, they asked whether I belonged to a group or organization, and the follow up was whether I was a leader of the group. No questions about past history of organizational membership, and no allowance for the possibility that a person might belong to several different groups at the same time and have leadership positions in some but not all of them. In my acquaintance in the local Pagan and Wiccan community, the individuals who are elders, teachers or leaders of some kind almost without exception belong to several different Pagan groups and have passed through others.
In the essay questions, the survey asked, very baldly and without preparation, for me to describe a profound spiritual experience that I have had. To which I replied that I don’t share profound spiritual experiences with complete strangers.

Having been part of an initiatory Craft Tradition, I can say that the Mysteries are well and alive, and they are kept by those who keep them well enough for their own membership, for the most part, from my experience. Besides passwords, one can have 128-bit encrypted files with simple programs, and a bevy of other stop-gaps if one truly wishes to have their private information on their computer or in a members-only site. However, like with any medium of information exchange, leaks can happen one way or another. If you’re truly worried about the Mysteries being exposed, not putting them into digital format is the best method, but you really can’t control your coven members once they leave your door. Either way, in my opinion, ultimately trust and cleaving to one’s oaths will keep the Mysteries better than passwords.
I would agree with Mr. Frew that many polls are skewed because of the factors he has pointed out, but until other methods are more effective at polling numbers the Internet and other well-used mediums will have to do for now. Besides, it is hard to get good numbers on a religious group that tends to be tight-lipped about their religious beliefs.
However, I deeply dissent with him about his second point, that “the resulting idea that “solitary Craft is the wave of the future” is both based on an illusion and reflects more of a current fad or cyclical swing than a long-term trend.” Given my experience solitary Pagans far outnumber groups, and will for a long time. Sometimes this is simply because they are looking for a group and cannot find one that fits them, or vice versa. Sometimes this is because they are former members of groups and are ‘between groups’. Other times they can simply be solitary by choice, and their reasoning for being a solitary can differ practitioner to practitioner. I think that, eventually, given about 40-50 years the group to solitary ratio may even out.
To be frank, if ‘new media’ is all it takes to drive Traditionalist Pagans underground, I have to ask why they working so long for in the first place by coming out of the broom closets and shadows. I have to admit deep misgivings with this statement, as I don’t think any religious Mystery is conveyed by simply reading the words of the rite, but by experiencing it. Anyone can read a ritual. Like a play, to fully appreciate and understand a rite, one must experience it. You can no more take the Mystery out of a Mystery Tradition by knowing the rituals behind them than by knowing Grandma’s recipe; you can’t take her special panache for making her best dish. At best you can emulate it, make it your own, or try to imitate her style to the best of your ability.
Trust me, I understand secrecy is important, but I don’t think it is the do-all, end-all and I think that covens that decide to go underground because of the increase of information traffic in the information age do themselves and their fellows a disservice in two ways: 1) They deny the community the benefit of their fellowship, and 2) They deny the community the ability to understand them, if not learn and grow by them.

Generally, more information and easier information availability are good things. The internet has certainly changed and expanded the Pagan community and I think that this is mostly for the best.
What troubles me, though, are the growing number of online Pagans that are self-styled ‘experts’ on the craft. This is worst in those cases of people that want to offer online training courses and such for pay.
One cannot become an expert on anything in a vacuum. Reading all the literature on a subject does not make one a doctor or a lawyer. Cooking meals at home for one’s self, no matter how delicious, does not make one a chef.
Skydiving is the best comparison I can think of. While one can become a safe and fairly proficient skydiver doing only solo jumps, one simply must train with other people in order to reach any degree of mastery. You can’t really know how fast you’re tracking across the sky or if you’re slowly backsliding; you can’t tell if you’re falling at an even and controlled speed unless there’s another person to be a point of reference because the sky is just too vast.
Faith is much the same way. The vagaries of life, the emotional and spiritual challenges and even the simple act of learning to live with others are not things that can be adequately internalized on one’s own.
I’m not suggesting for a moment that traditional covens are the only way to go. Practicing, performing ritual by one’s self in perfectly and can be deeply rewarding. I am saying that if someone’s only interaction with the rest of the Pagan community is through a keyboard and broadband connection, then they’re probably missing out on something. Unfortunately, many Pagans who’s entire religious lives have always been in cyberspace often don’t realize this.

The revolt against “McWicca” started years ago when authors started making Wicca information available to the masses via published books, in particular Silver Ravenwolf. If someone is so upset about Wicca being free to the public then I am going to assume they are an elitist. Are they really that special and should no one they don’t approve of should have Wiccan secrets? Seriously? The only secret in Wicca and witchraft is that there is no secret. The God/dess created witchcraft for anyone interested. Anyone who thinks this way does not share the pagan value of equality.

I am 20, and I am part of a traditional, secretive group. While I do have a Facebook, a blog, and a YouTube channel, I am very careful about what information I put out there. I do see a trend in my generation that wants to let everyone know what they’re doing every second of the day. But I’m also seeing a trend in the opposite direction. I see more and more people reducing the amount of information they put on the internet.
Now, what does this have to do with Paganisms (I feel the plural is appropriate,since there is no one Pagan religion)? Facebook created an interesting phenomenon. While one of its intended purposes was to connect people, it has done just the opposite. It has trivialized genuine friendship and human interaction in many ways, and because of this, many people feel there is a hole in their lives. Much the same thing has happened to internet Paganisms. People are longing for meaningful, face to face interactions with each other (in Pagan and non-Pagan circles alike). In my experience, this has led more Pagans to seek out groups off-line. I think this has led to growth in traditional and eclectic groups.
The present dominance of solitaries has several factors. First, in decades past, if you wanted to learn you pretty much HAD to join a group. This meant that the number of practitioners (particularly those who could teach) was very small. Once Paganisms went public, more people became interested. While demand for teachers didn’t skyrocket, it was still difficult to find one. Those who had difficulty finding and joining a group, but were eventually successful, realized that others were having the same difficulty, and that the numbers were growing. So, they published books, enabling people to learn when they couldn’t find a teacher. The solitary phenomenon was first created because the demand for teachers was far greater than the supply. In many ways the internet has simply amplified this.
From what I’ve seen, the first generation of solitaries were such by necessity. The paradigm they “grew up” with was one of group training. Many of them saw the value of tradition and would have joined groups given the opportunity. The second generation, on the other hand, “grew up” with the solitary paradigm as the norm. They “didn’t see the need” to join a group, because learning and practicing on your own was considered normal. However, from what I’ve seen, many solitaries are finding this model unfulfilling and are seeking out groups.
While I definitely think solitaries are here to stay, I think we are entering a period of balance between solitaries and group members. I also think that the number of group trained teachers is finally starting to catch up to the demand. I’m not sure about other traditions, but in the one I’m studying, it’s generally expected that once you reach a certain level you will start to teach. If each teacher has at least three students who become teachers, the number of available teachers could grow exponentially.
I was a solitary before I joined the group I’m in. And while I respect others’ decision to be solitary, I know that this is the right choice for me. And I suspect I’m not alone.
WarriorPrincessDanu
P.S. Sorry this post kind of rambles. I tend to think tangentally…

Hi Folks
I am the author of the Pagan Census and am delighted it and the priliminary data I presented in an article are being discussed. Yes, the survey is long; and at the same time it would have been good to include some other questions as well. But, I appreciate everyone who has or will take the time to fill out the questionaire. Just a note, the survey will be closed tomorrow as I begin the process of data analysis.
Helen A. Berger