Evidently astrologer Joni Patry announced at the UAC conference this week that she had obtained an accurate birthtime from a client who is closely involved in the Obama campaign. According to Eric Francis:
The time is 7:11 pm, and the date (as known previously) Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu. The chart gives 14+ Aquarius rising.
Patry told me that since it was obtained from a “private government website,” a copy of the document would not be available. It cannot, therefore, be authenticated and under the Lois Rodden rating system, which sets the industry standard, it is “dirty data” or DD rating because there is not documentation, and there are conflicting times. By contrast, a birth certificate in hand gets an AA rating and “from memory” gets an A rating. DD is the lowest rating.
Sources at the conference told me that people from the late Rodden’s company, Astrodatabank, were working with Patry and others to verify the authenticity of the documentation involved.
The Aquarius ascendant (see new chart) makes a lot more sense than the Scorpio ascendant which has been floating around, and reflects the universal appeal that Obama has. Aquarius is the sign of change – radical, revolutionary, innovative change. No wonder his slogan is “Change we can believe in.” Aquarius desires social justice and liberty and equality for everyone. Moreover, Aquarius tends to be rather impersonal and detached and Obama has developed a reputation for being cool and somewhat aloof, both Aquariuan characteristics.
Obama’s history of reconciliation and compromise, a Libran characteristic, was not reflected in the solar chart using just the birthdate or any of the other birthtimes proposed for him, but this 7:11 pm time shows the Sun at the descendant, the cusp of the seventh house that is ruled by Libra, revealing his focus on relationship building and creating alliances that bridge the gap between different groups that has been the hallmark of his political career so far.
Chiron falls in the first house of this chart, identifying the core wound for Obama as being the development of his identity and personality that resulted from being a biracial child living in a white household with an absent black father. This core wound was the subject of Obama’s book “Dreams from my Father,” in which he explored the issues of race and what it means to be black in America. Chiron opposes Pluto which now falls in the seventh house of relationships, suggesting that his partnerships and alliances will have a transformative (Pluto) effect on him that may at times be painful (Chiron). Traditional astrology would say that Pluto in the seventh house shows danger from open enemies, but the fact that Pluto forms a sextile (harmonious aspect) to Obama’s Venus would tend to minimize that potentiality.
Amplifying this early wound is the tight square of Chiron and Pluto to the Gemini Moon. These three planets form a powerful T-square that puts a lot of stress on the Moon which in the Fourth House yearns to experience a connection with one’s ancestral roots and family, an urge mirrored in Venus which falls in Cancer, associated with the Fourth House.
Still, the inclusion of a Grand Trine involving Chiron, Venus and Neptune reveals again the importance of relationships (Venus) in the process of healing (Chiron) and transcendence (Neptune) that Obama talks about in his speeches. When we see a stressful aspect (the T-square) combined with a harmonious aspect (the Grand Trine), there is tremendous potential for growth and evolution that is motivated by the T-square and facilitated by the Trine.
You can read more about other aspects of Obama’s chart that haven’t changed in this earlier profile.
posted May 17, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Those of you who think Aquarius is so wonderful need to remember that Aquarius rules big business. You need to study William McKinley’s horoscope
posted May 17, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Don – Capricorn rules big business. The ancient ruler of Aquarius is Saturn which some astrologers now consider a co-ruler along with Uranus, but the whole idea of Big Business, a monolithic financial structure, is wholly Capricornian
posted May 17, 2008 at 5:31 pm
When I looked at this chart, it didn’t ‘feel’ very presidential but then I’m no expert on politics and astrology. To me, this is the chart of someone interested in their own world, not the world at large. But we’ll wait and see if this birth time can be verified by Astrodatabank people
posted May 17, 2008 at 7:25 pm
Dear Lynn,
After 38 years in astrology, I certainly know of the correlation of Saturn and big business. Nevertheless, I still recommend looking at McKinley’s chart. He was born January 29, 1843 at 11:32 PM LMT in Niles, Ohio. He had 5 placements in Aquarius plus Saturn and the North Node in Capricorn. He was strongly considered to be a tool of big business and the main cause of the Spanish-American War. Teddy Roosevelt was his Vice-President, which was considered to be an effective way to neutralize him. Then McKinley was assassinated and the Trust-Buster got to be President. The topic is very interesting, but take a look at Aquarius as ruling big business, too. You will be enlightened.
–Do
posted May 17, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Hi Lynn. Been enjoying your astro-blog for a while.
I do like this chart. Never was happy with the Scorpio Asc chart that has been used recently. I just couldn’t see it.
But these placements resonate with my own perceptions of the candidate. Aquarius ascendant accurately describes his appearance as well as his message of change. Having SN in Aquarius as well as Uranus conjunct NN reinforces the ascendant energy.
The grand trine with (first house) Chiron, Venus and Neptune is a super aspect, giving charisma and success, if I remember my Magi Astrology.
10th house ruler (Pluto) in the 7th, alongside Asc ruler and North node offer a clue to leadership style, and the political jujitsu that he’s displayed.
Sun and Mercury in the 6th emphasizing service, nice aspects from Saturn to Mars in earth, Jupiter to Moon in air.
Overall a well knit chart that reflects my observations of the man.
I know that many are concerned about the Sun (dignified in Leo) square to Neptune, but Neptune can and does does express a higher octave in certain individuals.
Works for me. Interesting to see if this data can be confirmed with documentation
posted May 17, 2008 at 8:48 pm
I wonder why Daylight Savings time wasn’t used for this chart ? This would give him a Capricorn ascendant with Jupiter rising in Aquarius.Still has the Aquarian vibe, eh ? Sun in 7th(if chart correct)show is talent for compromise and inclusion. Any thought
posted May 17, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Skybear
I think that Hawaii does not use daylight savings time.
L
posted May 17, 2008 at 9:10 pm
I just checked the American Atlas and you are correct. Hawaii does not observe daylight time,except for periods for 1933 and during WWII
posted May 17, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Ray Merriman and Shelly Ackerman were on the Alan Colmes show last week and one of them said they have a new time of birth for John McCain. According to an recent interview with his Mother she said he was born at 11:00am
This is not offical and I still call it dirty data.If correct this gives him a Scorpio ascendant and Mars on the MC square Uranus. Yikes ! (lol
posted May 18, 2008 at 1:41 am
Isn’t it interesting that someone pops up on someone else’s blog and states that the host is wrong.
Talk about inhospitable
posted May 18, 2008 at 10:29 am
Nevertheless, I still recommend looking at McKinley’s chart. He was born January 29, 1843 at 11:32 PM LMT in Niles, Ohio. He had 5 placements in Aquarius plus Saturn and the North Node in Capricorn. He was strongly considered to be a tool of big business and the main cause of the Spanish-American War. Teddy Roosevelt was his Vice-President, which was considered to be an effective way to neutralize him. Then McKinley was assassinated and the Trust-Buster got to be President.
Don – I’m confused, this chart appears to have Cancer on the midheaven and Saturn in Cap in the 3rd. I wonder how this precise birthtime came about, did they record birthtimes that precisely back then?
That is indeed an amazing lineup in Aquarius with Uranus square to Venus, accentuating the Uranian theme. That Saturn in Capricorn is square to Pluto, intensifying the focus on the law and business and suggesting an intense need for control and/or a desire to use the power of business to wield American influence abroad, which he evidently did quite well.
Without doing a tremendous amount of research it does appear that McKinley was a reformer in many ways, converting the country to the gold standard and Wikipedia says, “His appeal to all classes marked a realignment of American politics.” That certainly sounds Aquarian
posted May 18, 2008 at 10:37 am
When I looked at this chart, it didn’t ‘feel’ very presidential but then I’m no expert on politics and astrology. To me, this is the chart of someone interested in their own world, not the world at large.
It’s peculiar to me that the chart has an empty 10th house with Scorpio on the cusp, although that puts the 10th house ruler in the 7th which gets back to the collaborative instincts.
Wouldn’t it be nice to have a president whose concerns are more about the affairs of regular people than having a place of power which is usually found in the 10th house.
Still, there’s something about it that doesn’t feel quite right. I strongly feel that unless we have a verified birthtime we should avoid playing around with fantasy charts, except for entertainment purposes only.
I see ADB has updated their site: On May 15, 2008 at UAC Denver, Joni Patry announced that a client of hers knows someone who works on Obama’s campaign and who reports that Obama’s time of birth is 7:11 PM, from birth certificate. As this data cannot be confirmed or verified, we must keep the Rodden Rating of DD; however it is an interesting piece of news and does seem more reliable than the other times we have collected and posted to date. Previously, various times of birth have been circulated or posted. A time of 1:06 PM was provided by Fran McEvoy who told PT she couldn’t remember who gave it to her. She said that the person reportedly obtained the time from Obama and wished to remain anonymous. McEvoy adamantly denied that she heard it from Obama at a “shout-out” in NH as reported in the Andrew Mangino article in the NY Observer online of July 24, 2007. PT has received e-mails or seen postings listing 9:51 AM, 10:02 AM, 1:15 PM, 2:10 AM, 6:10 AM, “1-3 AM,” and “Virgo rising,” but these times have either been acknowledged to be speculation, rectification or otherwise not traceable to an original or reliable source.
posted May 18, 2008 at 11:12 am
Hi Lynn,
I just re-read the whole listing on President McKinley in Astro Databank, which I found most interesting. Apparently, he was an advocate of voting rights for “Negroes” over 100 years ago. I have always found Aquarius to be the most contradictory of all the signs. I was married for nearly 26 years to a woman who had 3 planets in Aquarius, and I’ll probably never understand her.
More about Obama:
I think he just mis-remembered his birthtime. If one uses a.m. instead of p.m., he would have a Gemini ascendant which fits both his physical description and demeanor perfectly.
Thank you for the interesting discussion.
–Do
posted May 18, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I think he just mis-remembered his birthtime
This new birthtime from Joni Patry is supposed to have come from government sources. Could it be that it was astrologers breaking into the passport offices????
posted May 18, 2008 at 12:32 pm
It’s not helpful to those who do credible analysis, which has value and merit, or those who are just curious, but what if it’s a good thing that we don’t know the exact birthtime? Without an exact birthtime that person can’t be as easily “boxed in” or “labeled” or “projected upon” in the cubbyholes of consciousness. Could it be a divine protection and does that show anywhere in the chart?
The soul evolves through the experiences of the chart, and as more and more people are consciously awakening and expressing more of soul than ego, they are expressing higher level of consciousness, rising above their egos and perhaps above their charts.
I don’t have the answer yet, but I wonder: Does that mean the charts need to be interpreted in a new way
posted May 18, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Modern vedic astrology uses campaign charts for predictions. Obama’s campaign chart is 2/10/07 10:13 am, Springfield, Ill. Interestingly, it has a venus, uranus, north node conjunction just like Obama’s progressed natal chart. The moon is 24/29 Scorpio which would have been conjunct his natal mid heaven at the time of the start of the campaign. That gives credence to the 7:11 pm time
posted May 18, 2008 at 7:45 pm
The soul evolves through the experiences of the chart, and as more and more people are consciously awakening and expressing more of soul than ego, they are expressing higher level of consciousness, rising above their egos and perhaps above their charts.
I don’t have the answer yet, but I wonder: Does that mean the charts need to be interpreted in a new way?
Yes! That’s how I approach my own client work. Those that are more conscious and more easily able to detach from their ego and their stories have a very different experience. You can still see the planetary dynamics at work, but they are expressed differently. That’s why I call the work I do “transformational astrology.
posted May 21, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Thought this might interest some:
http://news.aol.com/elections/
st…2761×1200094275
posted June 12, 2008 at 3:18 pm
A friend passed this link on to me – it shows his birth certificate, and the time of birth is 7:24pm
http://www.dailykos.com/story/20…6168/320/
534616
posted June 14, 2008 at 11:45 pm
I’m personally feeling worried about Obama. There have been too many warnings about his safety from various psychics and astrologers, and I have not seen that with any other candidate. I pray nothing happens. Everytime I get worried I just picture Obama protected by love and light