Well, this is a very interesting turn of events!
With Both Jupiter (the great benefic) And the north node in the 10th house, And Pluto getting ready to cross into Capricorn (and Onto his north node), then wouldn’t McCain have a better chance at winning this election?

I have been made aware of some conflicting places of birth for Obama. Will the conspiracy site clear this up too?

conspiracy sit?

Well the non-astrological focus on the other site is the revelation that this birth certificate shows that John McCain was not a “natural born” U.S. citizen, but instead, a derivative citizen.
As they describe it, “McCain is no different than the millions of other children born on military bases throught out [sic] the Cold war. They are considered derivative citizens or citizens by decent [sic] through various naturalization statutes and given the title of Citizens of the United States along with naturalized citizens.”
My sister has this status, and I remember my dad teasing her that she would never get to run for President.
The website also points to the fact that it appears that McCain is fully aware of this possible problem and has gone to great lengths to hide it. Interesting stuff.. The day and time DO look very clear indeed, as does the birthplace, which in fact WOULD bring into question whether he is eligible to become President.
Wouldn’t THAT be a kicker, folks!

With Both Jupiter (the great benefic) And the north node in the 10th house, And Pluto getting ready to cross into Capricorn (and Onto his north node), then wouldn’t McCain have a better chance at winning this election?
Not necessarily – Jupiter and the NN in the 10th show a successful career, not necessarily the presidency. Jupiter is squared by Chiron and opposed by Neptune, and part of the mutable grand cross in the chart.

I have been made aware of some conflicting places of birth for Obama. Will the conspiracy site clear this up too?
Cyn, there are a lot of rumors about Obama’s birth place, but the certified birth certificate says Hawaii. It doesn’t really matter – American citizens can give birth to babies in other countries and they are still American citizens. It’s interesting that in this election we have two candidates who were both born outside the continental 48 states. See the article on Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

Beth, I never heard of this “derivative citizen.” But I found this interesting chart that sets out who can be a citizen: http://www.shusterman.com/citz-chart1.html

Interesting, and murky. Snopes.com currently flags it as “undetermined” whether McCain is a “natural born citizen” eligible to be President of the United States. It appears that scholars of Constitutional law have disagreed on the matter. The legal question seems unlikely at this point to make a difference to the outcome of the Presidential race. Perhaps that’s for the best.

There are two factors in this chart that convince me that this is as close to a correct chart as we will get.
First of all, the Jupiter in the 10th house. The 10th doesn’t just rule the native’s work,career and reputation, it also represents the father of the spouse because the 10th is the 4th from the 7th (I use the 4th for father, not the 10th). Jupiter is extremely well dignified in his own sign of Sagittarius, and Jupiter is the natural significator of wealth. Cindy McCain’s father is an extremely successful beer distributor and could be seen as the “power behind the throne” in John McCain’s career.
The other factor is the placement of Mars on the Part of Fortune. The further back you go in the astrological literature (I mean 2nd century and beyond) the more references you see about how the part of fortune is actually an alternate ascendant. One of the things I disliked about the other McCain chart was that Mars was not in a significant enough position to justify the “maverick” or “war hero” memes that have been bandied about so often. Nor did it support the reports of his terrible and violent temper or his irratibility.

I also found out that John McCain has a Pine Tree as Celtic Zodiac and is a Chinese Rat. Take a look at http://www.myspiritualprofile.com/content/spiritual_reading_summary.cfm?first_name=John&birthdate_day=29&birthdate_month=2&birthdate_year=1936&report=2
Cheers,
Erebos

Please tell us that he will not run again when his Saturn goes direct. In 2017 he will be very old.

Re comment about ‘derivative citizenship’– I believe without that ‘concept’ John McCain would not qualify for citizenship –since, as noted on the birth certificate shown, he was born in Panama.

I was born overseas at a military hospital, because my father was there on U.S. government business. My birth certificate states: ‘Born Abroad of American Parents’ and ‘U.S. Citizen’.
If McCain’s parent(s) were in Panama working on behalf of our government, then he automatically becomes a U.S. citizen, with the option of double citizenship – to be decided later, by himself.
You might want to check out this well noted and highly-credentialed attorney, former deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, a Democrat, who has many times and is presently going before the Supreme Court – to advance the opinion, that Obama lost his citizenship, (if he indeed had it in the first place), when his step-father adopted him in another country.
Check out this 10-minute clip and see what Obama is possibly hiding (speaking of Neptune): http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=gA6_k3NtXZs

I’m very familiar with the Philip Berg case. That case is actually based on the theory that Obama was born in Kenya and has nothing to do with the rumor that his stepfather adopted him in Indonesia. Since the certiifed birth certificate has been produced and validated by the Annenberg Foundation-funded factcheck.org, there is clearly no basis to this Kenya claim.
Even the right-wing World Net Daily examined the birth certificate and found it to be authentic: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214

VERY interesting. So now we have a Virgo sun candidate with Pisces rising running against a Leo sun candidate with Aquarius rising. This calls to mind our global transition into the age of Aquarius from the age of Pisces. Paradigms are shifting, and it will be interesting to see what we are choosing right now.

to Lynn Hayes -
Actually, the document examined was the “Certification of Live Birth”, not the actual long-form “Certificate of Live Birth”. The former only provides summary information, and is amendable. The latter is the official document, which is unamendable, and which has not been produced yet. The court case you cited, Berg vs Obama, DNC, et al, is to produce that official long-form document. Obama and the DNC refused to comply with the court-ordered subpoenes, so that’s why its in court now.
Here’s the actual court case and docket page (http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-paedce/case_no-2:2008cv04083/case_id-281573/).

To Lynn -
Barrack Obama sat on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge in 1995 where he distributed money to non-profit groups to “better” the public school system there. He was chairman of the challenge. When the Annenberg Foundation, and factcheck.org, which is an Annenberg owned website, it seems to me that there’s a conflict and the verification seems questionable.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-10-15-fact-check_N.htm
http://www.annenbergfoundation.org/news/news_show.htm?doc_id=209657

Josh, what do you think about the fact that the World Net daily also verified the birth certificate? They don’t have any reason to be supportive of Obama..

They only verified the certificate on the internet. That certificate can be amended – the actual birth certificate signed by doctor is kept separately… this is the so-called “vault” certificate, which Obama has refused to produce despite approximately six lawsuits. This refusal is causing all of the suspicions…. which range from the idea that obama was born in Kenya and had his birth “registered” in Hawai, to thoughts that his birth father was Frank Marshall Davis…. It would be much better if he would release the vault certificate to quiet down all these suspicions

People have very vivid imaginations. When I was in college I was involved with the SDS and the Yippies and engaged in insurrectionist behaviors. This doesn’t mean Abbie Hoffman was my father. The level of fear around Obama has reached hysterical proportions. Hopefully some of this will calm down when he actually gets to work.

I think it’s good to remember that, in our system of justice, the burden of proof is properly on the accuser.
Some people can find some way to reject almost any evidence. Now, if someone had positive evidence that the state-issued certificate differs significantly from an original, then that would become an interesting case.
Short of that, honestly, I think that most people don’t really care about Obama and McCain’s birth and citizenship status. They have more compelling reasons of their own to vote for or against each candidate. For many who raise it, the citizenship issue stands in for other concerns.
It is kind of interesting, though, that we have the two candidates both born outside the mainland, leading to their citizenship statuses being questioned.

Regarding Philip Berg’s attempt to discredit factcheck.org by asserting that it is “owned” by the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, I tried looking that up and it looks to be factually incorrect at least.
What is true is that the Annenberg Foundation provides grant money to a wide variety of organizations including the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania which runs factcheck.org; Obama was on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge but not on the board of the Annenberg Foundation; and the surviving co-founder of the Annenberg Foundation has publicly endorsed McCain. Details here for anyone interested: http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/2008/10/is-factcheckorg.html
I think that the claim of undue influence is unproven and undermined by Berg’s sloppiness. Anyway, the Court dismissed his suit. And the drama continues.

Lynn,
I know your wonderful blog is about public astrology, but now I am concerned about my Pisces ascendant. Is this not a good time for public service oriented (law, not politics ) Pisces rising people with a Jupiter in Virgo opposition happening?
I am actually very impressed with the bulk of the US rejecting the ridiculous negative claims about Obama. I live in an affluent, white, church and synagogue-going neighborhood in Central Florida and most of the yard signs are for Obama, with many more rooting for Obama, including life-long Republicans who express disgust at the negative and false smears aimed at him.
Given a depth psychology perspective, I am amazed at this level of mature, rational, informed support of Obama-Biden, given the collective archetypal, irrational, primal fear-based “shadow” support of Palin by so many. It seems to reflect the higher side of Saturn in Virgo versus a lower side of Pisces in Uranus. But I’m an amateur at this.
Thanks for your great blog at the wonderful Belief.net.

For God’s sake people , have you lost your minds ! When was the first time your horoscope was ever true? I read mine everyday as the darn thing is on my homepage below the Comics lol and they have no bearing on my life what-so-ever ! They so broad as to hopefully hit the nail on the head 1 time out of a million people that have read their horoscope for any given day. Astrology is NOT a Science. You get the same “stab in the dark ” results as you do from reading tea leaves or casting bones or Reading Tarot cards as you do an Astrology chart.
It never fails to amazes me that people believe this stuff as if it was written in stone. P-L-E-A-S-E !*sighs*

I am wondering if Linda is also leaving comments at other Beliefnet blogs.
Is it possible to remove her comment which is presumptious and does not add to the dialogue here.
It’s analogous to going to Pentecostal End Times blogs and railing against the End Times being written in stone.
Her comments do not add to the spirit of tolerance and respect that ought to be enforced at Beliefnet.

Is it possible to remove her comment which is presumptious and does not add to the dialogue here
Hi Mira – actually, Linda is correct. She writes:
For God’s sake people , have you lost your minds ! When was the first time your horoscope was ever true? I read mine everyday as the darn thing is on my homepage below the Comics lol and they have no bearing on my life what-so-ever !
The so-called “horoscopes” that are based on sun signs only have very little if any relevance to our lives. If you go to the search bar on this blog and type in “sun sign astrology” you’ll find lots of artilces from me that say the same thing. You’ll also find comments from readers with a wide variety of opinions. Some say that it is sun sign astrology that gets people interested in astrology. Certainly learning about your sun sign can be very useful, but it is only one small piece of what astrology is.
If Linda had read much of this blog she would understand that what we do here has nothing to do with the “horoscopes” that she is reading on her homepage. Hopefully she’ll come back and broaden her viewpoint.

i think that you need ti lay off and let obama win

Hi Lynn,
I was referring to Linda’s tone of self-righteous intolerance and her shrill pitch.
I was not responding not to her criticism of the daily horoscopes, which are useless. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that, and I can’t imagine any person, unless desperate and challenged in some ways, taking those seriously.
Regarding Linda’s communication style, there are more gracious and polite ways of raising intellectual differences that expand dialogue instead of short-circuiting dialogue.
BACK TO JOHN MCCAIN and his Pisces Ascendant…
I was especially glad to see the best of McCain (and his Pisces Ascendant) in his concession speech — gracious, wise, humble, all-embracing, accepting, focused on public service and the greater good.
I thought it was the great and heroic moment of his campaign, and a moment of truth for him at an existential and cosmic level.
I had hoped to see this John McCain more throughout the campaign, but sadly, his Bush-Rovian handlers suppressed this side of him. I was stunned when he chose Palin as his VP pick and then hired the same character assassins who derailed him in 2000 for his campaign.
I am wondering what you might say about the exact Saturn-Virgo opposition at play here. Senator McCain seemed to be perfectly balanced in the moment.

There is only ONE court case that called children of illegal aliens (one or both parents), citizens. That case has NOT been reviewed by any higher court, yet! However, it is about to be tested. The constitution nor any other document specifically calls for babies to be “natural” born. That is legally defined very specifically defined as, both parents are American citizens. No other form of birth is accepted as “natural’” born. So many here are legally correct.uk official certificates