by Lynn HayesMilitary personnel are struggling to retrace the steps of the suspected shooter in Thursday's massacre at the Fort Hood military base in Texas. Major Nidal Malik Hasan, a devout Muslim, has been named as the gunman. He allegedly...
They initially said he was killed, but no, it turns out he's on life support. So which is it?
The killed gunman was absolutely identified as Hasan and declared dead by officials, even to the satisfaction of the FBI. By what criteria the ID? They were even ready to give out all of Hasan's background BEFORE they knew he wasn't the one killed. Notice Hasan is referred to as the "suspected" gunman. Why "suspected" as to ID? Because they knew he really wasn't the real Hasan? But they did expect Hasan to be dead, too, only he wasn't. Also, the FBI (Suits) were on hand to spirit away the other probable shooters. Hasan has been framed.
Army Says 12 Dead, 31 Wounded in Fort Hood Shooting (Update4)
By Anthony Capaccio and Viola Gienger
Nov. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Twelve people were killed and 31 were wounded by at least one gunman who opened fire on the grounds of Fort Hood Army Base in Texas, the U.S. military said.
The suspected shooter, a soldier, was killed, Lieutenant General Robert Cone, commander of III Corps at the base, said at a press conference.
“We do not know” what the motive was, Cone said. WITNESSES REPORTED SEEING “MORE THAN ONE SHOOTER,” HE SAID.
Andrea
November 7, 2009 11:39 AM
I don't think there's necessarily a coverup. With that level of confusion, it would be easy enough to misidentify one of the dead men who looked similar to the shooter as the actual shooter. And if some of the other people there returned fire, that would explain why people reported more than one shooter.
Edna
November 7, 2009 11:40 AM
Kieron,
Very Interesting-
Do you think Hasan is Jewish, too?
The most important quote from your link
"Mullen cautioned against speculation before facts are known."
Jay
November 7, 2009 12:29 PM
Lynn,
One factor that is not mentioned much, but certainly added to the mix is the impact of his treating returning war veterans for PTSD. In addition to seeing horrific physical wounds, suffering and broken bodies on a daily basis, he listened to horrific details of their stories, and their emotions -fear and terror - anger - guilt - horror, and hearing this over and over and over again. I've read that he was deeply distressed by this. I'm sure he internalized many of those images - not only of Americans being wounded and killed, but also of civilians - Muslims - as well.
Ask any therapist who works with trauma on a daily basis. It can play havoc with the psyche and many therapists have had to give it up or lose themselves.
So in addition to everything else going on with him, he may have been suffering from PTSD as well.
How does this show in the chart?
Your Name
November 7, 2009 3:24 PM
Fascinating post Lynn, I heard the birthdate on him and didn't have the time (or skill) to take a look at his chart as you have done. I like that you emphasize, more than once, the idea that anyone could have these same aspects and not make the choice he did.
When I was in college I decided against pursuing a career in psychology for just the reason mentioned by other commenters, the stress of hearing (and living in a way) the pains of my patients. I didn't have the strength to do that for life, and luckily I realized it at the right time.
In light of the office shooting in Orlando, are there any large scale movements in the planets that offer any insight?
Cornelia Bernarda Tschudi-Chapin
November 7, 2009 4:01 PM
We should not come to conclussion without knowing the true facts.
What do You do when You know a smal puzzle of the future and You let People know in advance, but they can't see what You see, or hear the same You do? What happen is our Goverments fault and none other!
Andrea
November 7, 2009 7:59 PM
Excuse me, but how do you figure that this was the government's fault? The one to blame is the shooter.
Louis Solnicki
November 8, 2009 12:29 AM
Lynn, I disagree that Hasan's chart was garden-variety and not particularly difficult. Having natal Saturn opposed to natal Neptune is very challenging. Neptune dissolves the ability to see the outer world as it is, while Saturn is the reality principle. In addition, Saturn structures the ego while Neptune is an ego-denying influence. Saturn can create deep-seated, intense fear, while Neptune can create illusions and delusions. I'm struck by the intense terror that Hasan experienced about his deployment to Afghanistan. Saturn would trigger the fear while Neptune would exaggerate this fear out of all proportion. Although the Virgo planets gave Hasan the ability to analyze and use reason, when his fear became overwhelming, his reason flew out the window. It was very difficult for Hasan, as it would be for anyone, to integrate the energies of Saturn and Neptune which are pulling in opposite directions. In Hasan's case, his consciousness began to disintegrate. To stand on a table and fire 100 shots indiscriminately against your fellow soldiers in a matter of several minutes shows how disordered and disintegrated he had become. Outwardly, he displayed a calm demeanor, a kind of robotic behaviour, which hid the fact that he had already bought the guns and had clearly planned this mass murder. By this time, he was already over the edge. Very sad!! Some therapists say that mass murderers really want to commit suicide but are afraid to do it, so they carry out the murders in the hopes that someone else will kill them. I suspect that this was Hasan's deepest wish, but this didn't happen. I imagine that when he comes to consciousness and sees that he is still alive, the full weight of what he has done and the consequences that he will be facing -- he has already been called by some in the media "the most hated man in America" will all come crashing down on him, and I suspect that he will be extremely suicidal. This is a terrible tragedy for those he murdered and injured, for Hasan himself, and for all Americans. May God bless us all with his Love, Wisdom and Mercy while we struggle to process this awful event.
edna
November 8, 2009 2:53 AM
Thank you Louis for your thoughtful and moving post.
Lynn Hayes
November 8, 2009 10:46 AM
Thanks everyone for your comments.
Jay, I too found it interesting that Hasan's role as a psychiatrist took him deeper into his own fears. I frankly can't imagine how soldiers of any persuasion can face the kind of risk and stress every day that these people have and not break down. Especially in the kind of grinding war with seemingly no purpose and no end such as we face in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Louis, thank you for your comments. Obviously there are difficult aspects in this chart, as I describe in my analysis. However, there are not the extreme aspects of Saturn, Chiron or Pluto that normally creates extreme psychic distress.
I myself have Saturn in square to Neptune, and am very familiar with the Saturn/Neptune dynamic. By itself, it does not lead to the kind of behavior that involves a massacre. Your beautiful description of the roles that Saturn and Neptune play in alternatively defining (Saturn) and breaking down (Neptune) the ego is beautifully stated, and combined with the stress between the fierce sense of Virgoan duty and the Sagittarian desire to flee (via suicide?) clearly there was a great deal of psychic stress.
However, I see charts every day that are far more difficult than this one, and I would never want anyone to think that a Saturn/Neptune opposition in itself would create this kind of behavior.
Brad
November 9, 2009 8:38 PM
I first began investigating Astrology in 1971. Initially a skeptic but with 7 Planets in Air signs and a creative imagination (Pisces Sun/Mercury) and years of analysis two thing continue to amaze me, namely: 1) How well Astrology works and 2) the lack of credibility it gets from intellectuals. I experienced powerful affects of Pluto transits personally when Pluto was square my Sun and Mercury in Pisces and opposed my Mars/Saturn Conjunction in Gemini simultaneously. It was an extremely emotional time and difficult to balance logic and feelings (Libra Moon). Of course my Aquarius Venus and Ascendant helped me escape problems Move to another state). A few of things that happened were a heart attack, a conspiracy by my brother over inheritance and other serious health issues. I saw all this happening in my astrology at the time but there was little I could do nothing about it other than wait it out for the very long time it takes to get through Pluto aspects. I understand how Pluto aspects work. It is and endurance challenge this guy obviously couldn't handle. The need for "righteousness" of a Sagittarian Moon has a huge motivational affect. Just looking at the Element stacking shows huge problems looks like muddy (unclear) thinking followed by an emotional eruption (Fire/Moon). Certainly Pluto stirs underworld actions over an extended period of psychological pressures.
chiron
November 10, 2009 4:03 PM
It ultimately is not natal aspects that decide who and what we are but the choices we make in each life. Natal aspects are a road map. A fork in the road presents clear choice though it may be clouded and stressful. The sad karmic situation here is that not only may his death wish eventually be fulfilled but karmically there is no release from such choices and the soul may be fated to face the same stresses yet again..
Lynn Hayes
November 11, 2009 8:06 AM
http://www.astrodynamics.net
::nodding:: what Chiron said.
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Lynn Hayes has been a practising astrological consultant in beautiful North Carolina for over 25 years, working with clients all over the world both in person and by phone. She focuses on therapeutic and healing approaches which encourage greater empowerment and personal growth. Visit www.astrodynamics.net for more information.
They initially said he was killed, but no, it turns out he's on life support. So which is it?
The killed gunman was absolutely identified as Hasan and declared dead by officials, even to the satisfaction of the FBI. By what criteria the ID? They were even ready to give out all of Hasan's background BEFORE they knew he wasn't the one killed. Notice Hasan is referred to as the "suspected" gunman. Why "suspected" as to ID? Because they knew he really wasn't the real Hasan? But they did expect Hasan to be dead, too, only he wasn't. Also, the FBI (Suits) were on hand to spirit away the other probable shooters. Hasan has been framed.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aFZ1IY1nxZX4
Army Says 12 Dead, 31 Wounded in Fort Hood Shooting (Update4)
By Anthony Capaccio and Viola Gienger
Nov. 5 (Bloomberg) -- Twelve people were killed and 31 were wounded by at least one gunman who opened fire on the grounds of Fort Hood Army Base in Texas, the U.S. military said.
The suspected shooter, a soldier, was killed, Lieutenant General Robert Cone, commander of III Corps at the base, said at a press conference.
“We do not know” what the motive was, Cone said. WITNESSES REPORTED SEEING “MORE THAN ONE SHOOTER,” HE SAID.
I don't think there's necessarily a coverup. With that level of confusion, it would be easy enough to misidentify one of the dead men who looked similar to the shooter as the actual shooter. And if some of the other people there returned fire, that would explain why people reported more than one shooter.
Kieron,
Very Interesting-
Do you think Hasan is Jewish, too?
The most important quote from your link
"Mullen cautioned against speculation before facts are known."
Lynn,
One factor that is not mentioned much, but certainly added to the mix is the impact of his treating returning war veterans for PTSD. In addition to seeing horrific physical wounds, suffering and broken bodies on a daily basis, he listened to horrific details of their stories, and their emotions -fear and terror - anger - guilt - horror, and hearing this over and over and over again. I've read that he was deeply distressed by this. I'm sure he internalized many of those images - not only of Americans being wounded and killed, but also of civilians - Muslims - as well.
Ask any therapist who works with trauma on a daily basis. It can play havoc with the psyche and many therapists have had to give it up or lose themselves.
So in addition to everything else going on with him, he may have been suffering from PTSD as well.
How does this show in the chart?
Fascinating post Lynn, I heard the birthdate on him and didn't have the time (or skill) to take a look at his chart as you have done. I like that you emphasize, more than once, the idea that anyone could have these same aspects and not make the choice he did.
When I was in college I decided against pursuing a career in psychology for just the reason mentioned by other commenters, the stress of hearing (and living in a way) the pains of my patients. I didn't have the strength to do that for life, and luckily I realized it at the right time.
In light of the office shooting in Orlando, are there any large scale movements in the planets that offer any insight?
We should not come to conclussion without knowing the true facts.
What do You do when You know a smal puzzle of the future and You let People know in advance, but they can't see what You see, or hear the same You do? What happen is our Goverments fault and none other!
Excuse me, but how do you figure that this was the government's fault? The one to blame is the shooter.
Lynn, I disagree that Hasan's chart was garden-variety and not particularly difficult. Having natal Saturn opposed to natal Neptune is very challenging. Neptune dissolves the ability to see the outer world as it is, while Saturn is the reality principle. In addition, Saturn structures the ego while Neptune is an ego-denying influence. Saturn can create deep-seated, intense fear, while Neptune can create illusions and delusions. I'm struck by the intense terror that Hasan experienced about his deployment to Afghanistan. Saturn would trigger the fear while Neptune would exaggerate this fear out of all proportion. Although the Virgo planets gave Hasan the ability to analyze and use reason, when his fear became overwhelming, his reason flew out the window. It was very difficult for Hasan, as it would be for anyone, to integrate the energies of Saturn and Neptune which are pulling in opposite directions. In Hasan's case, his consciousness began to disintegrate. To stand on a table and fire 100 shots indiscriminately against your fellow soldiers in a matter of several minutes shows how disordered and disintegrated he had become. Outwardly, he displayed a calm demeanor, a kind of robotic behaviour, which hid the fact that he had already bought the guns and had clearly planned this mass murder. By this time, he was already over the edge. Very sad!! Some therapists say that mass murderers really want to commit suicide but are afraid to do it, so they carry out the murders in the hopes that someone else will kill them. I suspect that this was Hasan's deepest wish, but this didn't happen. I imagine that when he comes to consciousness and sees that he is still alive, the full weight of what he has done and the consequences that he will be facing -- he has already been called by some in the media "the most hated man in America" will all come crashing down on him, and I suspect that he will be extremely suicidal. This is a terrible tragedy for those he murdered and injured, for Hasan himself, and for all Americans. May God bless us all with his Love, Wisdom and Mercy while we struggle to process this awful event.
Thank you Louis for your thoughtful and moving post.
Thanks everyone for your comments.
Jay, I too found it interesting that Hasan's role as a psychiatrist took him deeper into his own fears. I frankly can't imagine how soldiers of any persuasion can face the kind of risk and stress every day that these people have and not break down. Especially in the kind of grinding war with seemingly no purpose and no end such as we face in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Louis, thank you for your comments. Obviously there are difficult aspects in this chart, as I describe in my analysis. However, there are not the extreme aspects of Saturn, Chiron or Pluto that normally creates extreme psychic distress.
I myself have Saturn in square to Neptune, and am very familiar with the Saturn/Neptune dynamic. By itself, it does not lead to the kind of behavior that involves a massacre. Your beautiful description of the roles that Saturn and Neptune play in alternatively defining (Saturn) and breaking down (Neptune) the ego is beautifully stated, and combined with the stress between the fierce sense of Virgoan duty and the Sagittarian desire to flee (via suicide?) clearly there was a great deal of psychic stress.
However, I see charts every day that are far more difficult than this one, and I would never want anyone to think that a Saturn/Neptune opposition in itself would create this kind of behavior.
I first began investigating Astrology in 1971. Initially a skeptic but with 7 Planets in Air signs and a creative imagination (Pisces Sun/Mercury) and years of analysis two thing continue to amaze me, namely: 1) How well Astrology works and 2) the lack of credibility it gets from intellectuals. I experienced powerful affects of Pluto transits personally when Pluto was square my Sun and Mercury in Pisces and opposed my Mars/Saturn Conjunction in Gemini simultaneously. It was an extremely emotional time and difficult to balance logic and feelings (Libra Moon). Of course my Aquarius Venus and Ascendant helped me escape problems Move to another state). A few of things that happened were a heart attack, a conspiracy by my brother over inheritance and other serious health issues. I saw all this happening in my astrology at the time but there was little I could do nothing about it other than wait it out for the very long time it takes to get through Pluto aspects. I understand how Pluto aspects work. It is and endurance challenge this guy obviously couldn't handle. The need for "righteousness" of a Sagittarian Moon has a huge motivational affect. Just looking at the Element stacking shows huge problems looks like muddy (unclear) thinking followed by an emotional eruption (Fire/Moon). Certainly Pluto stirs underworld actions over an extended period of psychological pressures.
It ultimately is not natal aspects that decide who and what we are but the choices we make in each life. Natal aspects are a road map. A fork in the road presents clear choice though it may be clouded and stressful. The sad karmic situation here is that not only may his death wish eventually be fulfilled but karmically there is no release from such choices and the soul may be fated to face the same stresses yet again..
::nodding:: what Chiron said.
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