Larry-
I have read a good many of your posts and been impressed with them. However, I have to disagree with the basic premise of your argument: that optimism is selfish or self-centered and that “Optimism is a mirage in this world (for anyone, not just those with depression); it says that everything in this world can go perfectly for you if you just try hard enough, which is an outright lie.”
I looked up the definition of optimism and this is what I came up with:
1. a disposition or tendency to look on the more favorable side of events or conditions and to expect the most favorable outcome.
2. the belief that good ultimately predominates over evil in the world.
3. the belief that goodness pervades reality.
The last one, “4. the doctrine that the existing world is the best of all possible worlds,” is one that I would not consider the common use of the word. Synonyms include “hopefulness” and “cheerfulness.” Antonyms include “pessimism.”
I don’t know if there is a “cure” for depression. From my own experience of over fifty years of chronic low-grade depression broken by periods of major clinical depression, and through reading many of the posts on this blog, I think that the word “depression” covers such a wide variance of symptoms, that sweeping generalizations such as yours are shakey at best. The causes are many, and so are, I think, the outcomes.
Too often we perceive ourselves as helpless when we are not. We make choices and some feed our depression, while others help to lift it. I’ll offer an example of my own experience, and I’ll bet that others could think of their own. When I am in the midst of a dark period, when my thoughts (and sometimes actions) are destructive, I tend to listen to “dark” music (I am a musician and teacher). Now I am aware that this feeds my dark thoughts, but sometimes that is exactly what I want to do. Because of my husband’s job, I am often alone at home for long periods. This is not good for me. I need to see people, even though I would rather not. If I stay home, I’ve made a choice to feed the darkness. I would rather lock myself away, but if I am honest, I have to admit that it is a choice and that being around people always lifts my spirits.
Is it possible to suffer from depression and be an optimist? Yes, I think so. I am writing this as I have just lost my ten-year teaching job as a result of a school closing. It is probably too late to find another position for this teaching year. But I remain optimistic, hopeful, if you will. If I do not find something in my profession, I will find a way to get by. Am I loaded with self-confidence? Not particularly. I am my worst critic. Am I fooling myself? Maybe, but I don’t think so. I am making a choice to think beyond my regular idea of myself and open up to possibilities that I haven’t previously considered.
I don’t subscribe to “The Secret,” but I don’t reject entirely that our thoughts *do* contribute to our overall mental health and to the successes and failures in life. I am a fan of medication; not because it cures me, but because it enables me to function fairly normally most of the time. I have been in talk therapy for over a decade and can say that in reading the entries in my journal over the years, I have seen a transformation in my thought processes and overall emotional disposition. Everything isn’t rosy, but like the Beatles song says, “It’s getting better all the time.” Even in my darkest periods, I am not tempted to tear the “Life is Good” decal off my bumper.
I have a default pathway that my brain wants to follow — one of depression and helplessness. But I think many people, not all (because I won’t generalize), can make significant progress toward recovery through a variety of means. I am creating new ways to think about myself and my life situations and experiences. Everytime I do that, I am working toward a new default pathway. Perhaps it will never happen, but I now recognize that I am not helpless, even though I sometimes wish I were. I could say more, but this post has already stretched too long.

Therese — is the gratitude boycott lifted? Thank you.
Babs — your post was heartfelt and cogent, but I do feel the need to clarify one thing (and this was something I clashed with James Bishop about as well).
I’m not talking about the LAYPERSON’S definition of “optimism,” and neither was Patton Dodd. We were both talking about a THEOLOGICAL definition of optimism, and I believe the distinction between “hope” and “optimism” (as does Dodd) does not at all lack a difference in that context.
Ironically, Babs, I am almost certainly a much less religious person than you (and Therese). But that Jesuit education I often speak of does lead me to think critically and philosophically about such matters.

BTW, the “Professor Parker” referred to is Professor GORDON Parker, an Australian depression researcher.

Larry -
I read some of the references you mentioned, and I have to confess that the Gospel of Optimism is new to me. The Prosperity Gospel? I am familiar with that as it has been around for quite a long time. Language is organic and as such, meanings evolve. I did some more research on optimism and the philosophies around it vary. The one you seem to be addressing is my 4th definition. It appears clear in my limited research,that optimism is not a theological word. Hope, as used in sacred scripture, is a much deeper concept. It is rather like comparing happiness and joy. Clearly, joy abides, while happiness can fade.
I am a layperson,as are most of the readers, not a philosopher or a theologian. I think that many people reading the post would equate optimism and hope, as they do happiness and joy. What disturbs me is the idea you seem to present that optimism is not grounded in reality; that it is a mirage, always the water beyond our reach. I assure you that I am not in la-la-land. I am probably more firmly planted in reality than I ever have been. My optimism is not based in some short-term vision of prosperity. It is based on the good that has emerged out of the darkest of times. (Have I been aware of this “good” at the time? Mostly, not.) The basis of my optimism is hope; the same hope expressed by Julian of Norwich, “All will be well. All will be well. All manner of things will be well.”
My disposition remains to look for the sunrise, even in the darkest night. I don’t pretend that I haven’t experienced terrible things in my life. In some ways, I feel I have a right to be depressed. My experience is also that I am having to work harder to stay depressed. It feels like a coat that I put on that doesn’t fit like it used to. And I wonder what it is like to live in peace, and because I am creative, I sometimes worry that I will lose the muse that inspires me. But the changes I have experienced in my disposition are firming up and I could not go back — even if I wanted to.
To go back to my original statement, depression is a very non-specific term as it is commonly used. I think that it is indeed possible for people to progress toward wellness and become whole again. Our thoughts, bright or dark play to a greater or less extent.
I would write more, but a thunderstorm is breaking and I had better close for now.

We will have to agree to disagree, babs. I stand by my comments on the ultimate futility of optimism — as opposed to hope.
It may be illustrative that one of my favorite songs is “The Impossible Dream” from Man of La Mancha. We press forward in this life even though, in the greatest sense, the things we hope to accomplish in this life ARE impossible (and certainly if you have profound depression).
Yet we are driven forward anyway — almost precisely BECAUSE life seems impossible — by the (yes) hope of Something Beyond. G-d? Allah? Yahweh/Jehovah? The Higher Power? That depends on your own faith tradition, I suppose …
“And the world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star …”

Babs, thanks for the well thought out words about where you are coming from with your depression. I have been diagnosed with dysthymia in the past, never as clinically depressed, but still can relate in so many ways.
Larry, I enjoy your comments as well.
Thank you, Therese, for giving us this forum to share, learn and care for each other.

Right now my impression of optimism is a rather shallow one while hope comes from a deeper place and most definitely spiritually defining for me.
A gentleman in our building says he is a member of The Optimist’s Club. I wonder what that is all about. He sure seems to be upbeat and cheerful when we cross paths (sometimes annoyingly so, I admit, but would I rather he be an old grouch? I don’t think so).

Now that the storm has passed, (how apropos!) may I add one last thought. My hope is based on the promises of Jesus. We are more than sparrows, or lilies of the fields. God cares for the humblest creatures; why not me? If I did not base my hope upon God, then all would indeed be futile. It would be a crap-shoot, a lottery ticket randomly rewarding the lucky holder.
Larry — by the common definition of optimism, could you not agree that hope cannot give birth to pessimism? I understand by your definition, optimism is almost a mental illness, but for many, optimism is an outward expression of an inward conviction of hope.

Babs:
Well, I’m a little sensitive about that, for obvious reasons, because IMHO mental illness is when you have circuitry off kilter in your brain. Deceiving oneself about the priorities and nature of the material world, IMHO, is not a mental illness per se. Otherwise we all would be mentally ill (yes, I said it).
I agree that hope, while sometimes given Job-like tests, is about determination, not pessimism. If you want, I’ll even agree that optimism is the secular to hope being the spiritual.
But reread the Patton Dodd essay, and you may conclude that “optimism” is not the animating force you are making it out to be.

I would like some feedback on Blinded optimissim. I agree that it to me is phoney and shallow and definately not the real world.

By nature I’m not optimistic. But hope I retained through most of my life.
But not any longer.
Realistic and ojective facts have turned my life on its head. Income has dropped to virtually nothing. (Being a writer as I am, with an immovable writer’s block now in place, helps nothing get better. The vagaries of publishing is another minus there.)
I live on the pittances my state supplies, plus soc security–not even close to a livable amount combined.
In fact, I have turned virtually suicidal since I can find no way to improve things. And those “things” are not only financial. I am alone, almost isolated–I moved, a mistake as it happens; there is no “community” here, which I didn’t realize; friends keep dying (almost all younger than I am)… My time is almost entirely spent alone; there are limits to finding things to do to occupy myself–and depression-induced inertia makes than worse. Any helpful suggestions?

Barbara, I’m saddened by your circumstances, and would very much like to extend my genuine concern for your despair. If you are inclined to a chat about anything at all please do email me at adornya@att.net

Dear Barbara,
Do walk out of the door and walk. When you do, do not think, but look. Look at the sky, gardens, people, cars, anything, but do not think for as long as you can, even if it is only 5 minutes to begin with.
If you meet a stanger, smile with all your heart and let the smile go right into your own soul and let it dance away your sorrow, just for a moment. Then after a while, do this more often. Play music, happy of course, join a happy Church, or just go inside and listen, Penticost are great.
Please do not be alone with your thoughts, go to the Library and pick books on happiness.
This will not work straight away, but will seep into your being.
I will do the same and think of you so you will not be alone
Sue