Wow – I never would have thought that using an expression that someone else wrote or said would be lying, cheating or plagiarizing. I would have looked at it as a great reference in writing. Was the expression copyrighted or was that a trademark infringement or taking portions of an entire entity of writing and duplicating it. I guess it’s all about intention? I suppose you could have used a *note with a disclaimer on the word not being yours, but were you really “stealing” a word or description? Obviously I am not as well versed in this matter as Mike is, who really held you to task. The essence of your post is so true for me in my life. I think of the phrase – “I’m only as sick as my secrets”. These days those “secrets” are not something that would make #1 on Amazon.com. It is about being honest in all of my affairs; thought, word and action. It is about being a woman of honor and dignity; that when someone hears what I say, I am truthful and authentic. It’s not just about dollar honesty. I recently had some business issues that I was behind in, and it was gnawing at me, relentlessly. However, when I took a look at the entire circumstance, it was much larger than I had anticipated. I was totally overwhelmed. In addition, I have a tendency towards guilt and shame where not warranted, so this really put me on the edge. I had a meltdown in my office. Thank God it was just my poor husband who witness the collapse of my psyche. I was at a fork in the road. Well, actually my first thought was that I just wanted to run away and not have to face any more responsibility, that I’ve had it, and it all falls on my shoulder. That leads me to poor me, poor me, pour me a drink; not a good option in my case. The next was to address it all and keep it a “secret” in the process. Now mind you, this was not something so dramatic that would jeopardize the business, but it was enough to think – “this is so not me”. I have all of the justifiable reasons which would have seemed sane and understandable to have concealed the issues while working through them. After all, my brother and business partner has lost the capacity to be honest. He lies every day of his life. It’s pathological. His actions and the consequences I have had to shoulder have contributed to my chronic illness, and so what – let him know in order for him to keep the focus off of himself and deflect it on to me. None of that mattered. It was “To Thine Own Self Be True”. With no drama, excuses or finger pointing, I sent him an outline of what was in arrears and the steps I had already taken to resolve many of the issues. Regardless as to his opinion, response,etc., I felt clear. Not thrilled; but not riddled with the heavy weight of the “secret”. I have to live in truth; otherwise I’m exisiting in a mental Hell. No one else may know, but I do. As you so well described the tutoring session, is our sanity worth the extra few dollars that cost so dearly in what for me would ulimately be shame and self-loathing. This was all several weeks ago, and I am still sifting through the muck; which is inherent in my position anyway. It doesn’t matter to me how others can live with their half-truths, outright lies and deception. I can’t. It doesn’t work. If there is anything in this world that I “covet”, it is peace of mind and good health. Each action I take or decision I make, moment by moment, throughout the day brings me either closer to or away from that place of peace. We also set the standard for our children. They may hear what we say, but more importantly, they watch what we do.

Therese:
Just a thought:
Isn’t there a slight conflict between step #4 and step #9?
Step #4 calls for a “fearless and searching moral inventory.” In other words, rigorous if not even (as you put it) ruthless honesty in all of our life matters.
But step #9 says, “Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, EXCEPT WHEN TO DO SO WOULD INJURE THEM OR OTHERS.”
(Step #10, obviously, has us constantly perform the 12 steps on ourselves.)
So if my mother asks me, “How have you been feeling today?” and I say, “I’ve been hanging in there” when I have been — barely — it is honest, though not particularly fearless or searching, I admit.
If I were to truly answer the question honestly, it might go something like, “I feel like I have Hurricane Katrina raging in my head, I’m afraid I might have to go to the hospital, and you’re aggravating the h*ll out of me to boot.” Which would be fearless, searching, completely honest and even ruthless — but violate step #9.
I don’t know what the answer is. Admittedly, though I want to Al-Anon for years, I stumbled on step #6 (while I could understand G-d caring for me in step #3 as a loving G-d, I could never get “entirely ready” for G-d’s intervention to remove my character defects, given the skepticism I’ve discussed ad infinitum here on BB of an angry, judging G-d).
And I actually quit drinking, a la George W. Bush (not a coincidence I’m proud of — though I am proud of the results) without AA, and am now 15 years plus sober and counting — ODAT, of course. (Sure glad in retrospect I had gone teetotaler before my diagnosis would have forced me to do so …)

There is nothing “small” about living in the truth, there are no small deceptions only the consequences can be measured. Recall when King David lied, by faining insanity in the court of a rivel nation, which he went to too escape from his son Absalom who had organized an insurrection to seize the throne, whew spit it out. His contrition was still required although to us and God he might be justified for his deception. The difference is he recieved the absolution of God, in that the trouble began when he “murdered Uriah and siezed his kingdom: Bathsehba,” the repentence was recieved but the consequences where adjusted to spare his life but that because of the sins [adultry & murder] he would have trouble in the family! David still loved God because realizing our struggles here prepares us for service in the throne room of his glory. Do that which God would have you do, as it is an example to others of his strength in you to continue in serving him and His will.
snooky325

Maybe this will clear up a little of the confusion between step #4 and step #9, although I’m not up for a debate or an ongoing discussion on the matter; however, I’ve had these steps outlined for me pretty clearly. On Step 4, where it calls for a “fearless and searching moral inventory” – it’s actually a step (when done with a sponsor in #5) where we have an opportunity to examine and learn about “our” part in the resentments we may have been carrying around for a long time. Thorough would mean being as open and honest at that point in recovery with what is evident at that time. It’s an ongoing process, which is the reason for Step 10. Searching and fearless would mean not to hide from any matters as laid out in the literature of AA, e.g. – 7 deadly sins, so to speak. Step 6 is also an ongoing process. “Entirely ready” can cause one to pause and sit at this point in the process. How can anyone be entirely ready? It’s about being open, honest, willing and teachable to change. A change in the person’s belief systems (if applicable – in any given area – I’m not speaking about religious or spiritual beliefs), a change in behaviors that are recognized as counterproductive, and to begin the “habit” of recognition when self-righteous steps in, or resentment, self-pity, jealousy, etc. and desire a change of heart, which doesn’t happen by a swish of a God wand in Step 7, where when asking God (or an individual’s choice of a higher power), we then become perfect people with no shortcomings. Again, it’s a lifetime process, which begins with no longer ingesting the poison of alcohol (for an alcoholic), etc. Step 9 follows Step 8, which is a list. When it refers to “except when to do so would injure them or others” in Step 9, what that means is in “amending” actions of the past in active alcoholism or drug addiction, it would not be appropriate to drop a bomb of an unknown affair, which occured in a marriage, for example, while the addict/alcoholic was active; just to clear their minds of guilt and shame. That is why it is strongly advised to work with someone who has lived the Steps and can help with suggestions and direction. It’s a far cry from a reply of “I’m fine” when I’m not. That gets into splitting hairs, which is not the point. These Steps were designed to aid in the elimination of self-medicating by inappropriate means. They are there to face life, ourselves, others and our feelings and situations, and yes, our illnesses head on without further destruction. I too had a “punishing” God in my life until 15 years ago. I was able to smash the old belief in time, which had been so repeatedly dictated to me from my parents. God was just someone or something waiting for me to do something wrong so that he, she, it could/would punish me. I look at that now as absurd. It was a gradual spiritual awakening for me. It was no overnight matter. My parents attempted to poison my sons with that line of a punishing God. They were not afforded the opportunity. It stopped at my front door. I’m not talking from a soapbox or as an AA guru, but just my own experience, strength and hope. I have condensed my thoughts as concisely as possible, with the intention of some clarification and assistance in understanding the meaning as I have learned along the way. Any method that works for anyone to stop self-destruction and harming others with substance abuse is what matters. AA is not a “one size fits all”; however, I’ve witnessed miracles in the rooms. Not the hokus-pocus nonsense kind, but restored families and lives. Live and Let Live is what I stand by, and each person is on their own journey. So it’s, take what you need and leave the rest. All that matters is that we can develop a somewhat manageable life, living in whatever solution works.

Well said Nancy. Right on target from the way I read the Big Book…
Therese, this is a great piece!! Thanks for writing it. I totally agree with you and it’s something that I need to remember. An ol’ timer at a meeting yesterday mentioned that he didn’t believe in slips. In other words, we create them by doing exactly the things you’re talking about. It’s merely a cause and effect thing!

Therese, the word that came to mind is “obedience”. You were obedient to God and that brings you a peace beyond all understanding.

Everybody’s said I’m wrong — OK, but nobody’s told me the RIGHT way to handle the dilemma, 12-step or otherwise …

Funny that you should write this now. Just lately I’ve become aware of just how much I don’t tell the truth or how I take something at work because ‘everyone else does it’. Nothing major re the lying or the taking. But lately I’ve become aware of just how much I do the ‘little’ things that are not quite right. Not having a major meltdown about this all — I’m a pretty honest person overall — I would never lie about something big or take something expensive — I even go back to the grocery store if the clerk has made a mistake in my favor (I am SUCH a good girl! LOL) — but it’s the little things that I am starting to be aware of. And I consider it grace from God.
One of the things I dislike about The Catholic Church (I was a good Catholic girl until I was 30, and I’m grateful for my Catholic upbringing because it gave me such a great springboard from which to explore other religions) is that it helped (greatly helped!) to give me such a negative self image. Now when I see myself doing wrong, I simply try to do better, in a relaxed way, because being a better person will benefit others, not just me. We are all basically good people. Sometimes we do some bad things — sometimes really bad things — and then I remind myself: “There is no way to tell people that they are shining bright as the sun.” Thomas Merton. That includes me too.
Bless you, Therese.

I was raised Methodist, so it’s hard for me to relate to the “preist thing. however, two of my older cousins who are sisters both converted to catholicism when the married, and i’ve never forgotten one of them telling my mother that the best part of that for her was how going to confession kept her on her toes about the “little” sins, both deliberate ones and those that were committed “accidentally”–liie walking away with a pen you borrowed from someone else. according to Shirl, knowing she will have to confess that sin if she doesn’t make the effort to return the pen (or whatever; make ammends, in other words) keeps her more cognizant of her actions,
I’m only aware of the twelve steps from an “outsider’s” point of view (adult child of an alcoholic as i’ve beenblessed enough to escape THAT particular gene in the accident of my conception ( I received several others to be sure) so it’s harder for me to relate to that experience, but I have read my late father’s big book and find those steps applicable to life in general rather than only to conquering an addiction. I find the “except when it would cause harm” clause especially important in terms of life in general. all too often, we(people in general) use admission of our errors as an opportunity ro wither a: bear up on ourselves to validate low self-esteem or b:to hurt someone back who’s injured our own feelings. (….”you think i’m such a good person and that you have done worse things to me, but let me tell you what I did to you behind your back: see how much better I am at betrayal than you are?”) i know that sounds convoluted, but at least I myself have trouble accepting the high regard of others on a personal basis (professional accolades I can handle; even expect!)and find myself at times almost trying to prove myself unworthy of the love and respect of others. It’s often only realizing that my confession is going to deeply hurt someone else that lets me stop giving a laundry list of my transgressions! Something tells the inellectual me that the emotional me does that because deep down i still feel unworthy of love. If I were writing the twelve steps, I think I’d includehurting of self in that exception as well as sparing the feelings of others because it’s so much easier for me to examine damagingothers’ feelings than it is my own!(Guess I’ve accustomed myself to living with bruised emotions and so they are my “comfort zone”) Somehow I doubt that i’m alone in this prediliction! So, while I believe that confession (in my case, to myself, god, and whomever I’ve hurt) is a necessary part of spiritual maintenance(forget about growth; it’s crucial for maintenance) I have to be careful not to turn it into an excuse for self-flagellation! Somehow, i’m an expert on how to take on blame that belongs to someone else; I once had a therapist tell me that she’d never met anyone more accomplished a that; if it rains on the day you’ve planned a picnc, I’ll apologize profusely I think this is a danger for many of us, even if I’m the queen!( My exhusband would never have cheated if I’d lost the weight he wanted me to lose; My father would have liked me the same way he did my sisters if I hadn’t always been naughty, I’d be able to travel around the world if I hadn’t wasted money during my working years.) It’s often the “little” sins (which I don’t believe in, by the way; sin is sin) which are easier for me to acknowledge. The “big” transgressions are the ones which I have trouble owning either aloud or in self-examination aloud. Wonder if anyone else has that same experience and why it is? Don’t get me wrong, I haven’t committed morder or pulled off a major bank heist, but if I had, those would be things I had trouble acknowledging. It’s almost like I EXPECT myself to be less than totally honest (those”white” lies of convenience or keeping that extra change from the cashier but hold myself subconciously as “above” theose major kinds of offenses which require planning and foresight. It makes me feel like a hypocrite when I overhear someone saying good things about me (If they only knew!)Part of my illness, that is! (How could a really “good’ person get so depressed that suicide holds an occasional appeal?) Surely if life handed out Academy awards, I’d have several statuettes residing on my mantlepiece! I’m THAT good at disguising the truly heinious individual who lives inside of me! If you don’t believe me, check with my father when you reach the other side; he’ll set you straight!

Boy do I agree with this! As far as my sobriety goes (and the pill loving person I can become) honesty, and just living right, treating the world with kindness, is how I have to live. Now when I can treat myself this way, which I do more then I use to, I will do well.
When I do not live right, my insides churn. I use to drink, now with depression, I skip the drinking step (slow suicide) and go straight for the real thing. Now I am learning, this too shall pass. So, I live right, hang on when things get tough, so far I am here, sitting at my desk, at a great job that I should be grateful for.
I cannot live against what my guts say is right. I chose to like myself, I cant go back to any other way.
Great article.
Lori

you can say starfish hands -you just have to put it in quote marks and put a subscript at the bottom like this
Talking talking talking and i heard so and so say “my little girl has starfish hands”1 and I thought this was the great analogy….you cant say it is your words but some one else!
footnote at bottom of the page 1 “star fish hands” was a quote from a friend of mine who is often more lingisticily gifted than i am.
just like that !

Re -Larry Parker | September 24, 2007 9:57 PM
Everybody’s said I’m wrong — OK, but nobody’s told me the RIGHT way to handle the dilemma, 12-step or otherwise …
** You’re not wrong Larry, it’s just that there are other Ways to deal with the problem. You have a lifetime to deal with it, or not deal with it. If meds/drugs seem to work for you and you are satisfied with that, then it really is not a problem. In my Life at this point (other than dealing directly with God) there are two things that I look at in everything I do. First “What’s wrong with this picture ?” and “Follow the money trail”. You will be amazed how quickly a picture of Truth will arise. If you have given a 12 step program a chance, and you feel it doesn’t work, you might want to ask yourself why. Have you given it enough time, many have been there a major part of their lives, mostly because the get the support of compassion and empathy, you desire. Also you might want to see yourself in the others that are there. For me, I was open to anything and everything, especially the Truth, and I had to admit to myself that I too was guilty of a lot of those things that stir up the spirits of anger and viciousness, lust for power and all the rest. The first step is to admit to yourself you have a problem (all the addictions, meds, drugs, are you medication for the problem, not the problem) I am a recovering workaholic, the worst kind of addiction, because I can justify it 12 Ways from Sunday. I need the money, I have to pay the mortgage, the electric bill, the fuel bill, the food bill, clothing, and last but not least entertainment. Where is the problem hidden in there? Escape, the same as all the rest, but for the workaholic, it is morally justifiable. I am driven by a need to succeed (over achiever)but in the physical world and intellectual world and of course the Spiritual world. Is it because of all the guilt dumped upon me as a chil;d, sure some of it is. Is it because I’m a half breed, sure some of it is, is it because I’m not a good parent and a failure, sure some of it is, sure all of it is. But for me a 12 step program, counceling, and dealing directly with God, too care of all those problems for me and no drugs.
You say you have suicidal/homicidal tendencies. First step “What’s wrong with this picture ?” If I do, then why? Is it pent up anger, jealousy, failure, inadequacy, futility ? What caused those feelings ? Is that why I have the need to strike out, to relieve the pressure of all of that. What will solve and dissolve those feelings ? Is it truly within myself, or was it dumped upon me by others, even my own family, or friends, or those around me ? Can I survive with those feelings, or can I rise above it, or at least accept it as a part of this Life.
I am not religious, in fact I am anti-religious, but I am pro-God, and the first step there is, is either to accept or reject the notion that there is a God. I you decide that there is, and you believe that God is Love as He says, then I see no other option in my Life than to confront (or profront) who and what God is. I did that, and my Life has never been the same again. I am so far beyond the religious perception of God (and perception is everything !) that none of this depressing world means anything to me at all, and it is all just between me and God. This might sound funny to you (or not) but I am focused on God’s sense of humor (which nobody thinks is one dam bit funny but God …and me !) If God is Love as He says, then I also must focus on that attribute of God. What’s wrong with that picture?” Why the pain, suffering and evil” The only answer I can come up with is “Freewill” All the evil in the world is absolute proof that God has given everybody the gift of Freewill. There is no such thing as forced Love, not even for God … especially for God. Part of God’s sense of humor, the Alpha – Bet. “I will give you ALL freewill, to do anything you want, and I will continue to Love you with Uncompromising, Unconditional Love, no matter whatever you do” … How funny is that !
LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum

wisdum:
Um, what are you talking about?
When did I say I had homicidal tendencies? (Of course I have suicidal ones — I have bipolar disorder, it comes with the disease.)
My question was about how to be rigorously and even bluntly honest without hurting people unnecessarily. What on earth question did you THINK I was asking?

Re -Larry Parker | September 25, 2007 10:34 PM
“When did I say I had homicidal tendencies?”
** Look back on you previous posts, and you will see that you have mentioned it any number of times, perhaps not applying to yourself, but as a justification for taking anit-depressive drugs. I am not interested whether or not you have those tendencies, but in how you choose to treat them. Bear in mind that everybody reads what you write, and it appears to me that you are trying to strike fear into those that have to deal with that. You also mentioned that you work on a crisis hotline. It also appears to me that your job there is to prevent those that have those tendencies from manifesting them, (which ain’t necessarilly a bad thing!)
“(Of course I have suicidal ones — I have bipolar disorder, it comes with the disease.)”
** That is not true. Life is all about wrestling with spirits… all kinds of spirits. There is the Spirit of Anger, the Spirit of Lust, the Spirit of Compassion, the Spirit of Love,etc., etc. The Holy Spirit (or Wholey Spirit)is probably the toughest one to wrestle with, because it calls upon you to make decisions in your Life that may indeed change the direction in which you choose to go. By the Way the Spirit of Sacrifice, is two fold, there is Self Sacrifice (as Yeshuah/Jesus, Mother Teresa, etc., wrestled with) and then there is Sacrifice of Others. That is the Spirit that tells you to take advantage or destroy others for your own benefit (that is a very dangerous spirit to be sure !)That would be like Hitler, Charles Manson, and all the rest.
“My question was about how to be rigorously and even bluntly honest without hurting people unnecessarily.”
** There is no Way, and on top of that people are very sensitive as to their egocentricities, and will slam the door in your face as soon as you get too close to the truth, especially the Truth, the Light and the Way. The only Way a 12 step program works is, you have to be open to it in a spirit of self denial and self acceptance(not in denial). You are, what you are. The real question is, What are the root causes of what I am, and am I really self destructive or destructive of others, or is all come down to “A good defense is a strong offense !”
“When the Power of Love, overcomes the Love of Power, the world shall know peace ” (Jimi Hendrix)
“What on earth question did you THINK I was asking?”
** I think your statements speaks for themselves, I’m not sure you even realize what it is you have been posting here. You appear to be crying out for help, but you still have a ten foot wall up around yourself. Either you or someone else who deeply Loves you, has to tear that wall down before you can be Free !
LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum

“You also mentioned that you work on a crisis hotline. It also appears to me that your job there is to prevent those that have those tendencies from manifesting them, (which ain’t necessarilly a bad thing!)”
wisdum:
Many of the things you say are not true in my opinion (and how dare you assert the ability to psychoanalyze my life on an Internet forum, in any case) — but the quote above is simply not true factually.
You clearly have me mixed up with another BB comboxer, who, I believe, does work (or at least has worked) for a crisis hotline. I have never worked for a crisis hotline.
Please address your comments accordingly in the future.
PS — You say you “think” I’ve built walls up and you want to help save me from something I don’t know about myself. (What was it I said about psychoanalyzing someone you only know on the Internet?)
If you have actually read my posts (which I wonder), you will see I’VE ACTUALLY ADMITTED THAT. No wonder you say “rigorous honesty” is hurtful to others — to you, at least, since acknowledging it would deny you a “Little Miss Perfect” cheap shot at me (i.e., the kind Therese is decrying) in this case.

Re Larry Parker | September 26, 2007 10:26 AM
Many of the things you say are not true in my opinion (and how dare you assert the ability to psychoanalyze my life on an Internet forum, in any case) — but the quote above is simply not true factually.
** This might suprise you, but it was you who opened that door. If I had nothing better to do, I guess I could go back and list all your quotes, but what would it prove… your opinion, isn’t that what you dare at this site ?
You clearly have me mixed up with another BB comboxer, who, I believe, does work (or at least has worked) for a crisis hotline. I have never worked for a crisis hotline.
** Thank you for that information, I’m glad to hear that !
PS — You say you “think” I’ve built walls up and you want to help save me from something I don’t know about myself.
**I don’t want to save you from anything, I’m a firm believer in freewill, and the WWW is the perfect example of what freewill is all about. But as with anything in this world there will always be conflict with freewill, on both sides. Did you expect anthing else ?
(What was it I said about psychoanalyzing someone you only know on the Internet?)
** At what particular post would you be refering to. There have been many on “your opinion” as you put it.
If you have actually read my posts (which I wonder), you will see I’VE ACTUALLY ADMITTED THAT.
** “The Truth shall set you free”
No wonder you say “rigorous honesty” is hurtful to others — to you, at least, since acknowledging it would deny you a “Little Miss Perfect” cheap shot at me (i.e., the kind Therese is decrying) in this case.
** Uhhhh ! … What ?
I’ve never said anything hurtful to you, other than you are free to to anything you like with your Life (and so is everybody else!) As far as this site, to me, is concerned, it is a place to share and deal with some very serious problems, a lot, if not all of us are going through. “We are many parts, we are ALL one body” The left hand does not beat up the right hand. The right foot does not kick the left foot. Nor do all the other organs and parts of the body live in constant turmoil with each other. Each part or person has a unique path or goal in this Life, all are equal and worthy in their path. Some directions lead to peace,joy and happiness, some lead to pain and suffering, again it is all up to you … God bless you on your journey.
“No man is an island” but there surely are those who try to be, and perhaps they may find peace there, then again that all comes down again to perception (and perception is everything !)What exactly is peace and freedom in your Life, Larry ? I surely hope you find it in whatever fashion you are searching for.
LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum

“I’ve never said anything hurtful to you …”
Well, thanks for giving me my biggest laugh of the day, anyway.

Re – Larry Parker | September 26, 2007 10:08 PM
“Well, thanks for giving me my biggest laugh of the day, anyway.”
** No problem Larry. Glad I could be of help, laughter is to the ears of the beholder ! AnyWay … any Way !
LUV 2 U / LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum

You’re quite the comedian, that’s for sure …

Re -Larry Parker | September 27, 2007 1:16 AM
“You’re quite the comedian, that’s for sure …”
** Dam !… you found me out. I guess you finally caught on that I too and a Com-Boxer. My style is confrontation and provocation, and it looks like you’ve been “rope-a-doped” At my blog site, all my friends/enemies won’t play with me no more (or is that know more ?) I am the world famous “Fool On The Hill” (that the Beatles wrote about), Sadly, I’m now the “Toothless Old Fool On The Hill” (66) evolution is a bitch ! Do I dare “… you bet your ass I do (and at my site it is completely uncensored, except for myself, and there is dam little of that, you can be sure!)
We don’t play that “Little Mis Perfect” / Goody Two Shoes ” crap ! It’s “like it or leave it !” You are free to say any dam thing you like or wish, and let the chips fall where they may. One thing for sure, you won’t feel bad about youself, but might want to seriously kick my ass (if you catch my drift!)
LUV 2 U /LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum

Good to know you’re at least self-aware you are an agent provocateur.