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Jane Chin’s website was one of the first in the mental health field I discovered, and I’ve been so impressed with the prolific work she does with Chinspirations.com–which includes 18 (that’s right!) of her own blogs, and, more specifically, with Jane’s Mental Health Source Page.
She created her website in 1998 when she was a patient and receiving treatment for clinical depression, and it’s purpose is to share depression, bipolar disorder, and mental health-related information from a personal point of view. With a Bachelor of Science (B.S.) in Microbiology from Cornell University and a Doctorate (Ph.D.) in Cancer Biochemistry at Roswell Park Cancer Institute/University of Buffalo in Buffalo, New York, she spent over a decade of her professional life in healthcare research and business. Most of her experience has been in the pharmaceutical industry.
In 2004, Jane became an entrepreneur (self-employed) with her site and by providing medical affairs advisory and consulting services to biopharmaceutical companies. A significant amount of her work is with field medical affairs, especially medical science liaisons or MSLs. She was a columnist for Pharmaceutical Representative magazine and is Founder and President of the Medical Science Liaison Institute.
What this means: it took a very long time for me to write her bio and go through her site. OMG!
Alas, here are my questions for Jane.
1) Wow, Jane. You know a lot. And do a lot. And you’re not on any medication. So let’s start there. I’m always intrigued (and jealous) of people who have gone off their medication successfully. As someone diagnosed with Bipolar II, I tend to think I’m a life-timer. And it’s only been a year and a half since I was ordering off of a psych-ward menu. But I’m always curious … how do you think you know when or if you can go off your meds?
When I was first receiving treatment for depression in 1998, I was adamant about “going off after one year”. This was both for medication therapy and psychotherapy. As a result, I was a very compliant patient – I took the meds when and how I was supposed to, and I made every therapy session count. You can say I was a very motivated patient. I chose a “one year” mark partly for a logistical and naive reason: I was planning on moving to the west coast to join my husband after completing my doctorate on the east coast. I calculated that this may be a year out, and I wanted to be “fixed” by the time I moved out west.
However, I also realized that I would be willing to go off the treatment plan with the blessing of both the psychiatrist and psychologist, who would be clinically assessing my progress. There was really no “weaning off” psychotherapy – I stopped when I was ready to move to the west coast. With medication, I was carefully weaned off with decreasing doses of the antidepressant and made sure that my depression remained at bay. I was willing to change my mind and return to the dose that worked if at any time I experienced any deterioration, because I had worked too hard to get to where I was to jeopardize it because of stubbornness.
2) You mention as your sanity tools some of the same staples of my twelve-step depression program for recovery from depression: enough sleep, eating well, staying active, forming strong personal and social relationships. Any other secrets you use to stay out of the danger zone?
The most important secret is to know myself physically and emotionally. This means how I responded to certain situations and what may be the “threshold” negative stimuli that I must be careful not to cross. Not getting enough sleep, not exercising for too many days at a time, not eating regularly or well, or not having enough human interactions are examples of stressors for me.
Many of us assume that we should know ourselves best, but I’ve found that I had let myself run on autopilot for years without realizing when my condition was deteriorating. It’s a bit like looking at yourself in the mirror everyday and assuming that you look the same from day to day. The changes may be so minute that we don’t realize we’re spiraling downward until we’ve hit rock bottom. In retrospect, that was what happened with me. Once I began to recognize some “danger signs” specific for me, I could manage the situation before it got out of control.
3) You consider yourself “in remission” which means that you keep a vigilant watch on your mental health. What did you do in 2001 when you relapsed? I mean, do you continue to work, just at a slower pace, and wait to feel better on your own? What if the depression doesn’t lift on its own?
To tell you the truth, I became complacent when I first started working, and did a lousy job at “keeping watch” over my mental health. Hence, I ignored those stressors I previously talked about until it was too late. Once I recognized that my depression had relapsed, I called the insurance company for network healthcare providers. I did not want to “wait things out” to see if I would get better on my own. I’m a big risk-taker where entrepreneurialism is concerned, but managing depression was not something I take risks with. Thus the simple answer to your question, “What if the depression doesn’t lift on its own” was, “I didn’t want to wait and find out”! I had already been down that road years ago.
I made appointments as soon as possible with both a psychiatrist and a psychologist. I was fully prepared to resume both treatment modalities because I saw the value in combining these, and this strategy worked for me before. I requested a different antidepressant because I had a lot of side effects with one I was taking in 1998. I tried 3 different kinds of antidepressants but did not find one that I could tolerate. I experienced severe dizziness or sleepiness, which would interfere with my work. I ultimately decided to go with psychotherapy treatment alone because my symptoms were improving.
4) Your log of experiences as you received treatment for depression was raw and real. I so recognize the desperation, when you wrote this:
I don’t feel like going to lab. I don’t care if I graduate. I don’t care if I don’t eat. I don’t care if I’m alive. I wish I was never born so I don’t have to think about dying more and more. Cried almost all day yesterday. Also thought about ending things because I don’t feel that life is worth the pain I bear anymore. Been thinking of the steps. Plans have become more realistic. I just don’t want to live in my skin anymore. The last time I had these thoughts was right before I started the depakote. Had letters written but they aren’t very good. What can a person say to ANYONE knowing she wants to leave them all because she can’t stand the pain anymore?
What would you say to your reader who is in that place right now? What would be your most important message to her?
I’d say, “This will pass. Hold onto yourself.” My husband and I were in a long distance marriage while I finished graduate school so he could not be my voice of reason when I was in a dark place. He wanted to find a way for me to help myself when I was caught off-guard by mood changes. My husband asked me to write “IT WILL PASS” on a post-it note and put that note in a place where I will see it often. The note went to the corner of my computer screen.
Mood changes are like waves. When you’re right in the middle of a big trough, you’re caught up in the depths of the abyss. It can be very difficult to believe that things can get better. Sometimes you stay in the abyss for a long time. You may have to make a choice to hang onto yourself while you ride out the storm.
I remember at one point I was in such a dark place that I was lying on the floor and fantasizing about a morbid alternative. After a long time of wallowing in this morbidity, I heard a voice say “Get Up” and I realized it was my voice. I just kept saying “Get Up”, over and over to myself until I finally sat up on the floor. This was an example of hanging onto myself even when a part of me wanted to quit and give up. It was my act of defiance – I didn’t want to “be beaten” by depression.
There was another time when I was online in a mental health chat room. Someone sent me an instant message; he needed to talk. His wife went out for a short while and he was alone. He had bipolar disorder, was on an antidepressant but no mood stabilizer, the doctor was not answering his calls, and he was eyeing razor blades. That was what he told me over instant message. I asked him to get a phone book to look up the suicide hotline number. I told him that I’d get a phone book and look at the suicide hotline so we would be doing something “together”. Even though this was a total stranger, I felt helpless and panicked that he might hurt himself. I wanted to keep him engaged online until his wife got back. She returned and sent me an instant message to let me know she was back. This incident gave me a glimpse of what it’s like to be on the other side – be the loved one or friend of someone who suffers from a mental illness and runs the risk of hurting himself or herself. It made me understand what my husband must go through whenever I plunge into dangerous depths.
I like a phrase from Sarah MacLaughlin’s song, “Hold On” – “Hold onto yourself, for this is going to hurt like hell.” The song is not about depression, but that phrase resonated with me. It does hurt like hell, but hold onto yourself. You are worth fighting for.
5) I love this paragraph in your bio:
I consider each day that I wake up a blessing. Sometimes I’m glad when I’m having a “boring day” because I remember what a ‘dark, depressed day’ felt like. Because of my experiences with depression, I have learned to be thankful for the extraordinary things and the ordinary things. I am thankful to my extraordinary husband who supported me through the worst of times, and to visitors on this site who share their personal stories with me. I am thankful to the mundane things that remind me I am still alive; the weather, leaves that need to be raked in garden, picking up the mail. These are gifts that depression has given me.
I can really, really relate to it. But here’s a dilemma we’ve had on many of the message boards of Beyond Blue: Should you fake gratitude when you don’t really feel that way? I mean, is it okay to whine and gripe on the days that you and your inner demons are fighting so hard that you can’t do much else?
Faking doesn’t work for me. I can’t advocate faking gratitude if I can’t even do it. Faking is a form of resistance and takes a lot of energy – mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually. That energy may be better spent in a couple of different ways: one, look for the smallest things you can genuinely feel grateful for; two, accept that you’re going through one of those days where the demons are having a party in your head. Your mission is to get through the day, one moment at a time.
It’s important to talk about what’s going on with someone who understands, instead of keeping things pent up inside. That said, whining and griping continuously won’t help you feel better, either. I suggest putting a time limit on whining and griping, maybe frame the situation in a matter-of-fact way and break things down as specifically as possible. For example, “What this person did really bothered me. I feel as if the whole world is out to take advantage of me.” Then you take each piece of that information and work through it. You don’t need to feel completely “OK” in order to feel like you’re moving forward. You just deal with it the best that you know how, and give yourself credit for each little step forward. If a step forward meant you got dressed and went to get the mail instead of shutting yourself in your room, pat yourself on the back for this step forward.
I find that when I stop pretending to be someone I’m not, it frees me up to work with who I am. I can be easily stressed and high-strung. If I force myself to be laid back and mellow, I’m going to get frustrated because I won’t “get there”. That’s just not who I am.
6) Can you tell me a little bit about your community on your site? Beliefnet just launched its community on Monday. Do you feel that this is the support group of the future? No more Big Books and bad coffee?
I consider my website a personal one and I occasionally invite people to participate through my blog carnival. It is not the same format as the community that Beliefnet just launched. I’m grateful that I still have an attentive audience after almost 10 years. The web has allowed many who otherwise feel isolated from depression gain support and understanding. There are different approaches to encouraging people who experience depression and bipolar disorder to seek help and know they are never alone. Today, books, online forums, personal blogs or websites are among the options we have for support and information.
7) One last question. Your husband sounds as supportive and incredible as mine. But we are lucky. What would you tell a person with a spouse that just doesn’t get it?
My husband understood that there is a biochemical basis for depression. This helped me, because a big hurdle in relationships where one person suffers from depression is when the partner does not separate the illness from the person, or interprets that person’s behavior as a fundamental character flaw instead of an episodic occurrence. When I asked him how he came to this understanding, he said that I educated him about it. I had forgotten that I did! To his credit, he read about depression and bipolar disorder on his own as well.
If a person’s spouse or partner is open to information, he or she may find it helpful to look at websites or books written from the partner’s or spouse’s point of view. This at least prevents the partner or spouse from self-blaming because no quick-fix is possible. The partners and spouses may also realize that they are not alone and that other people have gone through the same struggles they are going through. Receiving validation for their frustration is important because it can encourage partners and spouses to in turn validate what their loved ones are experiencing instead of denying or trivializing it. Support for spouses and partners in the relationship is critical when riding through the storm of depression or bipolar disorder.
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Previous Posts
Therapy Thursday: Sweat
posted 6:01:57am Feb. 09, 2012 | read full post »
Scrupulosity: What It Is and Why It's Dangerous
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The Treasures of Darkness
posted 6:06:40am Feb. 06, 2012 | read full post »
On Groundhog Day: 12 Winter Depression Busters
posted 6:30:47am Feb. 02, 2012 | read full post »
6 Ways to Stay Resilient in Stress
posted 6:00:24am Jan. 31, 2012 | read full post » |
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Therese J. Borchard writes the daily blog, Beyond Blue, on Beliefnet and is a regular contributor to the award-winning blog, World of Psychology, on Psych Central. Therese is the author of Beyond Blue: Surviving Depression & Anxiety and Making the Most of Bad Genes and The Pocket Therapist: An Emotional Survival Kit. Subscribe to Beyond Blue, visit her website, or follow her on Twitter @thereseborchard.
Meet others on the journey in
Therese’s community group
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Therese J. Borchard writes the daily blog, Beyond Blue, on Beliefnet and is a regular contributor to the award-winning blog, World of Psychology, on Psych Central. Therese is the author of Beyond Blue: Surviving Depression & Anxiety and Making the Most of Bad Genes and The Pocket Therapist: An Emotional Survival Kit. Subscribe to Beyond Blue, visit her website, or follow her on Twitter @thereseborchard.
posted October 19, 2007 at 11:40 pm
I applaud Dr. Chin’s site for its comprehensiveness.
But — and without meaning to dismiss anyone’s right to free choice — there’s an unnerving disconnect to me about someone who admits having depression, who makes her living in the pharmaceutical field, yet very strongly refuses to take pharmaceutical medications for her condition (despite the fact she’s had at least one relapse).
posted October 20, 2007 at 1:02 am
I thought that interesting as well, Larry. However, I also got the impression from the photo that Dr. Chin is a younger woman. I know several women who were diagnosed soon enough, young enough, have uni-polar depression, and were able to discontinue the medication – provided they do kept up on sleep, nutrition, therapy and exercise. The illness will often re-emerge, however, post-partum, in case of a divorce or the death of someone close. That is why it would be important to have a therapist to help monitor.
One of those things, maybe, where men and women are significantly different. It would be interesting to see the statistics.
posted October 20, 2007 at 6:27 am
What a WONDERFUL, INSIGHTFUL interview. This could only have happened, IMHO in a situation where both the interviewer and interviewee are personally acquainrws with the daily struggles and fears of living in the “snake pit. One more time, THANK YOU, THERESE! “You rock my world,” in the current popular vernacular. Reading B.B. is like getting a big hug every fay, and I could never receive enough of those even when I wasn’t a disabled individual living alone. I read some reasearch once when I was rebelling against a “NEVER touch a student; regardless of the how or why” policy a (not so great)principal established, or attempted to in a building where I was teaching. I am and always have been, a “toucher, and I decided that the day I couldn’t hand out an encouraging pat on the back or a loving we’ll-get through-this together-hug was the day I would have to stop teaching! What I discovered (Wish I could recall the source) weas that a certain number of hugs are NECESSARY for a human being to simply maintain and an even higher number are required in order to grow and develop e,otionally! Since I now DO live alone and can no longer work, I don’t get the appropriate number anymore except on days when my adult son or one of my sisters or an almost-sister cousin who SEEMS more like a sister visit, and since none of them lives closer than an hour away, that isn’t often! No wonder I’ve become dependent on B.B’s hugs!
An interesting aside to the “time limit idea: I have learned to tell myself “Okay, you have permission to cry or feel down for _________ minutes, but then yuou have to (insert whatever positive activity) I’ve even been known to set my kitchen timer to remind myself that the “pity party” is over and I must go to my journal, meditate or whatever. (G)uess that’s the teacher in me; I used to set one in the classroom to help me stay on-task and not spend too much time in one subjet area while neglecting one I wasn’t as personally fond of.) It worked then and it works now as well! When the bozzer sounds, I FORCE myself to undertake whatever distractor I decided upon when I set the timer, but until I hear it’s nagging buzzing, I can go ahead and feel down about my lot in life! Because I an hemiplegic, exercise isn’t one of the distractors in which I can indulge(Though to be honest, even before my stroke I was more of a sedentary individual, but there ARE little physical movements which I learned when I still received physical and occupational therapy which can be done and they DO help bring me up out of the pit, albiet very slowly. Reviewing my SEF isone of the best ways to emerge for ME; as a matter of fact, it’s gotten a little ratty from (over) use! My current caregiver, whom I love, tends to be one of the “plaitude people, so I sometimes will call another friend with whom I can be totally honest about how I’m feeling without having to endure a lecture on how much I have to be thankful for, and she and I will frequently praytogether over the phone. It’s difficult to stay depressed when you’re listening to someone thank God for your presence in their life and mentioning the more upbeat qualities she sees in you! The only danger with that one is making sure you chose a “phone friend” who won’t panic because you’ve found yourself mired down and is capable of (and willing to) allow you to vent without reporting you to family members who tend to overreacy because “They just don’t get it!” We established a code word for me to use if I was entertaining suicidal thoughts, so she knows when the situation is dire enough to warrant intervention of a more professional nature thus releiving her of the responsibility of making that call. Although I do at times welcome the thought of death (no more hemiplegia!) it’s bbeen years since I entertained thoughts of actually killing myself, but I don’t want to put her or anyone else in the position of feeling guilty because they knew how down I was and didn’t summon help in the evnt that that particular python wraps itself around my mind again (Just because it’s remained quiet for so long doesn’t mean it won’t slither back someday, and I try to be cognizant of that fact) When the timer sounds, I often have to literally MAKE myself move on(The mental equivalent of saying “Get up! over and over, but during the “reprieve I’m allowed to feel whatever it is I feel at the moment without feeling guilty.
posted October 20, 2007 at 6:39 am
All there is in this Life is you and God, and God is crying out in your darkness ” I AM”…”I AM in you and you are in Me. Without Me you can do nothing!”
My Life is a Love Song sung to me by God (in fact God writes all the Love songs, and you are One of them) Nothing exists except you and God, and whatever you and God can experience through perception (and perception is everything !)
This is One of those songs http://youtube.com/watch?v=a-ldVj34Sfo
SEPTEMBER SONG
Oh, its a long, long while
from May to December,
But the days grow short
when you reach September.
When the autumn weather
turns the leaves to flame
one hasn’t got time
for the waiting game.
Oh the days dwindle down
to a precious few
September
November
And these few precious days
I’ll spend with you.
These precious days
I’ll spend with you.
May they enGrave on my tombstone
“Perhaps the world is a little bit better, because I was here” … “Because I AM”
LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum
posted October 20, 2007 at 7:38 am
This works for me …
WALK WITH ME
Walk with me – through all of this land
Walk with me – I will hold your hand
I will guide you –in all that you may do
Keep faith in me – my Love’s – forever true
I will be there –you just have to call
I am there to –catch you if you fall
Walk with me – to the stars above
I will share with you – my eternal Love
Your faith in me – will make your dreams come true
You shall not fail – for I am here with you
All I ask – is you remember me
As Loving you – for all eternity
Just close your eyes – and I will be there
Don’t you ever doubt –that I really care
Walk – with – me
music by – Fr. Joe Quinn
lyrics by – Mat Albano
copyright 1989
If you would like the whole song, I will send it to you. E-mail me at RDCLDLUV@warwick.net
LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum
posted October 20, 2007 at 9:41 am
Wisdum: I WOOULD like the while song, but I don’t think it’s permisable to include my email or snail mail addresses, so there’s a logistical problem for us!
posted October 20, 2007 at 9:58 am
Once again Theresa you have posted something of excellence and inspiration! A small note to those who are concerned about the good doctor’s unwillingness to medicate…remember that ” Dr.s frequently make the worst patients.”Not to diminish her capabilities in any way, did’nt she say she would take them as needed? I applaud her candor. I have too heard the inner voice tell me to get up but I believe that came from the higher power. It does’nt matter how many times you fall, but how many times you get back up. Triumph and tragedy are the yin and yang of my life.
posted October 20, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Margaret Balyeat | October 20, 2007 9:41 AM
** Hi Margaret,
I have already, sent it to Therese, I’m on this community space here, but I think I can only post pictures. I have a myspace page,but I have to download their music thingy. Maybe I can get one of my friends to do a youtube page
LUV 2 U /LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum
posted October 20, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Therese,
Since Wisdum already sent you the entire sond, could I trouble you to foward it on to me? I DID try to email him, buit it bounced back saying”no such mailbox. I would REALLY,REA;;Y appreciate it! Thanks for all you do!(and here I am asking you to do MORE! oF ALL THE GALL!
posted October 20, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Just to clarify:
Dr. Chin can and should do anything she wants and needs for her recovery, and good for her.
It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth for her to be publicly talking about ideas to combat depression, for her to suffer depression, for her to work in the pharmaceutical business — and for her not to take depression medication (and to be quite vocal about it).
It’s not a matter of her not using medication per se. She doesn’t present as having bipolar disorder (where medication non-compliance would be an issue for her personal health and her medical credibility), and with unipolar depression, there are people who can control it with lifestyle changes, herbs, etc. She may be one of them — again, good for her!
But it also gives one the peculiar sense that, through her pharmaceutical training, she has learned something awful about anti-depression and anti-psychotic medicine — something so awful that she will not use it personally, yet for whatever reason she will not share what this terrible side effect/consequence is with her many readers on her large blog.
I’m not saying she’s doing this. I’m saying Dr. Chin’s situation gives the uncomfortable impression she COULD be doing this. (Or at least, that she would not be supportive of people who DO believe medication is essential.)
posted October 21, 2007 at 6:46 am
This one is more Me !
I Whistle A Happy Tune (Grover)
LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum
posted October 21, 2007 at 7:01 am
So this knot walked into a bar, and orderd a drink.
The bartender said “We don’t serve knotty people here (or is that naughty ?)
Of course the knot put up a protest “Whut ! Are some kind of bigknot (or is that bigot?)”
Well the bartender grabed him by the nap of his haid, and threw him out the door right into a mud puddle. The knot determined to not give in to this kind of inknotty treatment, wiped himself off, shook his hair all up, smearing the mud all over his face, straightened himself up as best he could and strutted back into the bar and ordered another drink.
The bartender said “You look awfully familiar, didn’t I just throw you outa here !”
And the knot replied with conviction …”Nope, I’m a-frayed knot !”
LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum
posted October 21, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Dr. Chin said: “When I was first receiving treatment for depression in 1998, I was adamant about “going off after one year”. This was both for medication therapy and psychotherapy. As a result, I was a very compliant patient – I took the meds when and how I was supposed to, and I made every therapy session count. You can say I was a very motivated patient. I chose a “one year” mark partly for a logistical and naive reason: I was planning on moving to the west coast to join my husband after completing my doctorate on the east coast. I calculated that this may be a year out, and I wanted to be “fixed” by the time I moved out west.”
Three things she said stuck…
1) I was adamant about “going off (treatment) after one year”
2) I was a very motivated patient
3) I wanted to be “fixed”
First I would like to acknowledge what a blessing it is to know (recognize and accept) that we are sick, to be able to ask for help, and to want to not be sick.
Secondly I want to ask how do we know that we are sick? How do we recognize the illness if it has mutated (what if we have ceased being the living plant and become the pot)?
Though I know that physical illness is (for the most part) very different than emotional/mental illness, I ask for your input…
Cully
posted October 21, 2007 at 12:26 pm
just a bit of lite-ness that made me smile just now…
I do animal rescue and at present I have three Italian Greyhounds (they will stay with me for the rest of their lives). I call it rescue but it’s really adoption
anyway, the oldest one lost one of his front legs because the owners could not affort to have it fixed and were going to have him put to sleep. He recovered from the loss of his leg like a champ only to go blind in the next year and a half… so here he is three legs and blind. He comes into the office and sniffs out the doggie bed… it’s empty!! Woohoo… he gets in and starts smooshing around and around, stopping every now and then to listen for anyone who might be coming (he can’t see me four feet away watching him with a big smile on my face).
I hope this little blessing that brought a smile to me has made you smile too.
Cully
posted October 21, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Cully – I know this comment has nothing to do with Dr. Chin’s interview, but I do want to let you know that your note about your brave (and obviously loved) greyhound brought a smile to my face also. I love animals so much. In his disabilities, he finds joy (my dog does that smooshing around also on her favorite blankie)in the simple thinks like an available doggie bed. It reminds me of the gratitude posts. “In” all things give thanks; not “for” all things, but usually (not always) I can think of the very basic things to be grateful for; a comfortable bed to get smooshy in (even though I wish I did not have to be physically limited to it at times), and a dog who loves me and the family, and has the sense of knowing when I’m doing very poorly. So thank you for adding it to today’s comment.
posted October 21, 2007 at 8:00 pm
On the subject itself, I will tread lightly here and speak only on my own experience. I appreciate Therese’s interview and reading about Dr. Chin. Fortunately, I have arrived at a point where her experience from her personal decisions and timelines do not infiltrate my brain and interpreting them that I did not follow such a planned out timeline for recovery.
I felt as though I was almost reading a syllabus that she created for herself, as the Department Head of the Mental Wellness Program, attending the University of Recovery, getting a degree (in the fast lane – one year cramming) and graduating. However, I do not forget that she is openminded to revisiting medication, if needed.
I was an extremely compliant patient/client with meds, psychotherapy, discontuing self-medicating with alcohol, etc. In fact, I mentioned in a prior comment that when my therapist and I agreed I had come to a place where I could conclude the therapy portion of the protocol, that I was one of her most determined and hardest working clients. I do not in any way say that with ego behind it.
In fact, quite the contrary. I had no illusions that I have arrived on the pinnacle of mental wellness. There have been other illnesses and situations that have made it extremely difficult. Again, I realize that Dr. Chin is open to future thoughts of medication. Perhaps she does not need it, and she is one of the fortunate ones.
I just needed to write my thoughts down in order to reinforce for me not to compare myself to others, which could result in feeling as though I should/could have done more to change where I am today. I know that is not the intention of the post at all; however, my brain can take many things, reframe them to make me think otherwise.
I need medication to have any chance of being a part of the human race. That’s ok and necessary for me right now. I do not even put on my goals in life the thought of getting of meds. I guess it will all depends upon what unfolds in the future in the arena of research and findings.
posted October 21, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Larry,
I just read her log and she explains her sensitivity to some of the meds she was taking.
http://www.chinspirations.com/mhsourcepage/is-this-normal
posted October 21, 2007 at 8:38 pm
I know Prozac can cause nausea. I had no idea that Depakote could cause hair loss or that Tegretol could potentially have a deadly side effect.
Still, it sounds like the bottom line was her misdiagnosis rather than her medications (we all have side effects from medication and have to adjust to it; granted, it’s more difficult if we have an M.D. who misdiagnoses us …).
So I understand her personal decision a little more, but still hope she wouldn’t judge those of us who disagree.
posted October 21, 2007 at 8:41 pm
PS — I was allergic to Wellbutrin, too, so I share that in common with Dr. Chin.
posted October 21, 2007 at 9:21 pm
I too had misdiagnoses and mismedications, and even with ones that were “suited” for my situation, took time and trial. Three years ago,when I had to face the fact that the meds needed change, it then took 4 different medications (which all were potential correct ones) at different doses. Oh, and then the waiting game of side effects or effectiveness and adding complimentary meds to be of additional help. I may not be where I want to be, but I’m glad I’m not where I used to be with the medication change. Ugh. So difficult to live through. (for me)
posted October 21, 2007 at 9:27 pm
And yes Larry, even with the meds that are best suited for me, there are still some side effects that I have had to managed also. I’m not talking about my tegretol debaucle, but even with what is best for me is not perfect without accomodating some unwelcomed, however not harmful, side effects.
posted October 22, 2007 at 8:47 am
OK, OK,…I got it. You can post audio and video at Beliefnet Community Beta. I just posted “Walk With Me” there, (search under Wisdum). There is a music player there, if you would like the song with music
LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum
posted October 23, 2007 at 10:20 am
Thank you, everyone, for your comments regarding my interview. My interview is quite long and thus in reading your feedback, I’d like to emphasize that:
- When I first gave myself the “1 year rule”, I was just learning about clinical depression and knew almost nothing about what it was.
- I was, and remain completely open to medication. When I relapsed a few years ago, I was put on no less than 3 or 4 different medications, but developed significant side effects to all of them at the dose that would work. At one point I was on an antihistamine continuously for a month to manage some of the dermatology side effects of a med, but I was willing to do that to give the med time to work… IF it would work. Thus, I stopped the medication “arm” of my treatment plan not out of personal preference, but necessity, and only because the psychotherapy “arm” was giving me good results. If I wasn’t getting better with talk therapy alone, my doc and I would have kept
- That I worked in the pharmaceutical field meant I am very cognizant of both the benefits and risks of any medication. However, my apparent hesitation in taking medications in general is not so much a matter of working in healthcare as a demonstrated track record of how my body has responded to MOST medications. I usually experience most of the side effects and occasionally the dangerous ones with death potential (i.e. Tegretol incident). I have learned to take all potential side effects seriously because I may get them. I then have to weigh the benefits and risks based on the way my body tends to respond to pharmaceuticals.
Thank you for taking the time to read this interview and for your input.
Jane Chin
posted October 23, 2007 at 10:32 am
Nancy,
I am impressed with you – you are strong, and tough, and sweet. I admire your self-effacingness. You are making some pretty amazing strides forward (even if you don’t think so)
Bravo honey! Bravo!
posted October 23, 2007 at 12:29 pm
Dr. Chin:
My concern was always (and only) that you were being judgmental and condemnatory of OTHER people who take medication, like myself. Clearly you have had difficult experiences with medication, which quite reasonably informs your own, personal opinion.
I’m glad you are being of service to the larger mental health community.
Larry Parker
posted October 23, 2007 at 7:47 pm
Mr. Parker,
My intention with the interview was to relate my personal experiences, and how I have dealt with depression. By no means was I intending to translate this as advice for anyone else on the various options out there for depression: that is really the role of the person’s doctor/healthcare practitioner. I also don’t believe this was Therese’s intention for the interview.
I am not sure which particular section of the interview you are referring to, that you perceived my statement(s) to be “judgmental and condemnatory of OTHER people who take medication”. If you can point out the particular section, I can review my answer. Since making a summary conclusion about medication therapy was never my intention, it will be helpful for me to identify what may have been interpreted by you and/or others as such.
Jane Chin
posted October 23, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Don’t take it personally Jane.
posted October 23, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Thanks, Jim G. I wanted to check whether I need to reflect on my answers to avoid misinterpretation by others.
I’m cognizant of the stigma of mental illness, which may include a dangerous view that “medication is unnecessary” when in many cases, medication can be life-saving.
I’ve also seen what can happen when someone who obviously needs treatment but is in denial, and the devastation this causes. The last thing I want is to perpetuate this myth, even if inadvertently.
Jane Chin
posted October 23, 2007 at 9:28 pm
“What we got here, is a lack of communication” … Do we really believe that “Love (God) conquers ALL ” ??? … or are we just testing God to see how much we can push God before He pushes back ?
LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum
posted October 23, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Dr. Chin:
Your answer to #1 was primarily what concerned me — the idea that medication should have a strict time limit when, as Therese noted, most consider depression to be a lifelong condition, at least in terms of risk of relapse (including you, of course, both philosophically and from your personal history).
Your extreme medication reactions/allergies/side effects, as I recall, occurred more during your later relapse.
In any case, simply a difference in perspective. (Though when someone with proven medical expertise takes an opposite perspective, obviously it is both concerning and disconcerting.)
posted October 24, 2007 at 8:52 am
Mr. Parker,
in response to your assumption that: “the idea that medication should have a strict time limit when, as Therese noted, most consider depression to be a lifelong condition, at least in terms of risk of relapse”
As I had alluded to in the interview, my answer to question #1 was based on 1) my limited knowledge of depression as a new patient, 2) an emphasis that this was something I had discussed with BOTH my doctors, and 3) my statement that, “I was willing to change my mind and return to the dose that worked if at any time I experienced any deterioration, because I had worked too hard to get to where I was to jeopardize it because of stubbornness.”
These are points I followed up with in later answers. Obviously if I were so against medication, I wouldn’t have immediately considered both options when I experienced a relapse.
I trust that this clarifies my intention for other readers. You are certainly entitled to your perception and interpretation.
Jane Chin
posted October 24, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Dr. Chin:
I think you have walked into the middle of some hard feelings here on the BB blog in general. I hope those have not unduly colored your abrupt response to me, as my concerns about your words were never personal.
I repeat, despite my initial concerns reading about your philosophy on medication, I now certainly realize, as you have clarified in response, that you are not outright opposed to medication — which is all the reassurance I was looking for.
And I repeat again, you perform a valuable service for the depression community, which is appreciated.