Panic, worry, hate, anger, compassion, Love, etc. are all perception (and perception is everything !) Now the only reason I’m mentioning this is because on the next page, I rat-ed out the whole world, and I don’t want to cause world wide panic (face it, this is just a multi-polar crazy person rattling on !) … There is no death ! Souls are eternal, they are nothing more, or less than a pigment of God’s imagination ! A thread in the Tapestry of Life, or what ever other Mataphor you like to use(oe is that metaphor ?). Shakespeare said “The world is a stage, and we are ALL but actors playing a part.There are no small parts, only small actors” … The Bible puts it as “We are many parts, we are ALL one body” … “We hold a treasure, not made of gold, in Earthern Vessels, of Love untold” … What do we do ? … Get on with your part ! It’s ALL your freewill ! Do with it, what you will !!!
LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum

That’s great news, Therese!
Can I get that in a pill?
;-P

i think relegion does play a huge part.i think since i have became a christian it is easier to deal with my anxiety.i know iam not in all of the stress alne.

In these studies, “religion” is often the word of choice when I wonder if a more accurate word would be “faith.” As many have written here, religion suggests a formal structure than many avoid.

Babs | January 7, 2008 3:58 PM
In these studies, “religion” is often the word of choice when I wonder if a more accurate word would be “faith.” As many have written here, religion suggests a formal structure than many avoid.
** “What we have here is a failure to communicate” Religion means to be tired to or bound by, and can be absolutely anything from eating chocolate to being an atheist. You can do anything religiously, especially eating and drugs. Yeshuah came “To set you free” from all of that crap !
LUV 2 U /LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum
just another fish in the C…hrist

Maybe there is a link. I have been struggling with my faith for several years and also with my anxiety worsening.

re: “Previous research suggests that engaging in organized religious activities leads to many health benefits, such as reduced reliance on alcohol.”
I have had acquaintances who have “found religion” and stopped their evil ways only to return to them when the “religion” has not turned out to be the cure all that they were led to believe or expected. In these instances I think that the religion simply becomes the new addiction or whatever because it is not based on Faith.
hugz,
Cully

“In these studies, “religion” is often the word of choice when I wonder if a more accurate word would be “faith.” As many have written here, religion suggests a formal structure than many avoid.”
Posted by: Babs | January 7, 2008 3:58 PM
yeah, what Babs said… and Wisdum too
Cully

Now that I got my snark aside, Daniel Goleman wrote of a similar study of Tibetan monks recently. Hooked up to electrodes, their meditation was able to calm their minds at rates previously unknown to scientific experience.
Hmmm ….

Some people apply “religion” like a salve, when it really needs deeper application.

My goodness, I wish I had more faith in so many sorts of “research.” Being me, I must wonder whether the researchers timed their research activities on church steps, to about 12:00 noon, on Sundays, armed with questionnaires.

Babs:
Some of us worry that kind of religion (as opposed to spirituality) shot straight into our sinews could prove to be lethal injection …

Culym,I think you’re absolutely correct when you use “faith” rather than “religion. Religion is actually a structure as opposed to a state of mind. And Babs, I get what you’re saying (I think) Sort of like the avowed atheist calling out for God when faced with mortal danger, right?

Here’s the problem with all of this crap! Everybody is unique in this world, and nothing is a blanket cure for everybody. The best person to study your problem is yourself (of course remember, “Patient who treats himself has a fool for a doctor”, that does not mean you are stupid, only that you will tend to fool yourself into using medication that makes you feel better, or make you think you are in a good mood … the med-pros refer to that as “Beta Blockers”, and will lock you into a Lifetime of supporting them in the fashion they have become accustomed!)
Here’s a couple of things that guide my entire Life now “What’s wrong with this picture ?” and “Follow the money trail !” … Think back to a time in your Life that you were happy, carefree, full of wonderlust, peace, happiness and joy. What were the factors the created that environment to which Life was worth Living … Go back there ! Long time memory is the last thing to go !
I just made a revelation for myself today. I do not get depressed anymore (but my wife is going deeper and deeper into depression, and getting more overweight (she will not take any advice from me whatsoever, another strong-willed child, like myself, and an “Absolute Controller” !) I am eating a breakfast mix, of natural food, that I put together myself (only so I know what is exactly is in it )on top of that I hake a handful of supplements. The result is I am manic all the time, my brain races like a high speed computer, which of course is driving my wife crazy and deeper into depression. The two of us together are manic-depressive/bi-polar ! It appears that my food habits are resulting in high energy levels (and little sleep !)
For what ever it’s worth, I’m gonna post my breakfast diet on my Community page, It may just righ a bell for you. It can’t hurt, and it may help !
LUV 2 ALL
Wisdum

Larry, The deeper application I referred to is a spiritual relationship, which takes time, effort, and is much more than a superficial fix. It is a way of life not a coat you put on. But I was recognizing that the terms “religion” and “spirituality” are often used interchangeably.
We know that there is no quick fix or magic that makes things better.

Babs,
I think you were meant to post your 8″35 comment es[ecially for me! As I shared with my SEF partner just last night, i’ve been sinking in to depression from rereading my past BB posts which present me as a “Rock of Gibraltor” kind of Christian when the truth is that for awhile know I’ve not even been a pebble (Unless, perhaps one in God’s shoe casing him distress,Number one on my personal list of pet peeves is hypocrisy, yet that’s how i’ve felt lately. My own faith is eith going under for the third time(drowning) or was never real on the first place! Two nights ago I wrote in my prayer journal begging God for a sign that a) He was really there and b) that I’m one of his flock. The ChristianI WANT to be is the one I’ve posed as here; the one I AM is wrestling with G-d as desperately as any of the rest of you, feeling abandoned and unloved in the same way some of you hasve shared. In other words, my faith HAS been a coat i’ve put on rather than a true persona. I feel ashamed to write it, but I’ve actually lately been wndering if my younger sister is correct, that it’s all an elaborate hoax. Of course, she’s actually looking at it from the perspective of an historian, since that was one of her college majors and remains one of her passions, and an objective tudy of the history of organized religion cannot help but expose some of the trickery that went on.
I’m sure that my late, sainted mother is spinning in her grave since she LIVED her deep, abising belief in God, but the truth is that as much as I might seek/want it, I cannot honestly state that I have a working relationship with God OR Christ in spite of my seeking. He does not “speak to me”(neither vocally nor by sending me signs, as is true of my older sister and my caregiver/friend whom I see daily. I HAVE continued to maintain my rtayer journal, though not daily, I’m afraid,and it doesn’t leave me feeling any more close when I power down my keyboard than I felt when I booted it up! Please accept my apologies, anyone whom I’ve misled; my love and concern for all of you has been real. it’s only my personal faith which has neen a sham. I will continue as a member of BB with your kind permission, as I don’t see myself giving up the search for a long time to come, and many of you have truly touched my spirits on innumerable occasions. I hope this confession hasn’t shocked anyone nor brought anyone down; I just needed toclean the slate.

Margaret:
You haven’t misled anyone.
Our mutual affliction is misleading you.
Even if you weren’t as fervent as you think you portrayed yourself to us while you were in a good psychological place … your relationship with G-d is between you and him. You didn’t have to volunteer that you feel you misportrayed it — and frankly, I have no doubt you DIDN’T misportray it.
Granted, the reason many of us DO volunteer where we are spiritually — oh, I’ll just put myself out there (sigh) … — and write so much about our religious beliefs is that this is a disease that causes such overwhelming existential doubt and despair.
That’s where it sounds like you are now, Margaret. You have all of our prayers as a result. And if you believe in “Footprints” as so many of us do (I’m not sure, but I’ll suspend my skepticism tonight for your sake), G-d already knows you are hurting badly and is helping you.
And G-d knows the prayers so deep in your heart do not have to be recited out loud to “count.”

I should have said “Him or Her” in my third paragraph, of course

Larry: thank you for youe heartening message. It did occur to me that i’ve been told more than once (By both therapists and family) that I’m much harder on myself than I am on anyone else, so perhaps there’s an element of that going on.footprints has long been a favorite of mine; I have a refrigerator magnet of it, as a matter of fact. However the “buttprints” post of Theres’s from not long ago may be a more accurate descriprion of where I’m currently at (creating more tidal pools, as it were:-) regardless, I’m not ready to give up just quite yet. It’s been extremely dreary here the last couple of days, that may also be coming into play. actually, night before last we had an electrical SNOWSTORM! How wierd to hear thunder when snow was swirling in the wind gusts! Perhaps yourthoughtful response and that of my SEF “partner are indeed the signI pleaded forso desperately in my prayer journal the other night. I plan to contact my doc later today to see if perhaps I need a meds adjustment or an extra therapy session (sigh…as you would say.)

Keep the religion stuff…I will take my spirituality part any day.
Part of my emotional battle in life had to do with religion (what I feel to be man-made) and once I found I can believe in God in spirituality (just him and I and no one else telling us how to relate to one another)…life sure got better quickly.
Before everyone gives me grief over religion being man-made…I am not judging you or anyone else. That is my perceptive based on how many different “religions” there are but they all have one common goal-our relationship to Jesus and God.
All I am doing is cutting out the middle man (religion) and getting all the benefits (spiritual).
Nancy a.k.a. sixlittlekitties

Dear Margaret,
I am so sorry that I did not see your posting until now. You are not a phony; you haven’t put on a religion coat. I have read enough of your postings to know that your struggles with the ups and downs of a spiritual life are not something to be ashamed of, or apologetic about. You have exhibited much genuine kindness to me and I have often thought of you and hoped that you’ve read my tardy replies. Yours is a cup of kindness given in the Lord’s name.
I think one of the hardest aspects of living a spiritual, God-loving life is that so often when we are dealt blows to our emotions and physical health, as you have, we “talk back” to God, and then interpret it as lacking faith. Faith is an on-going conversation. Just as in a marriage one has times of intimacy and times when you can’t stand each other, the same *has* to apply to God because what relationship is more intense than with the Creator? Who else can we feel safe enough with to voice our heartfelt, sometimes ugly, thoughts and feelings? We can only voice our doubts and fears to Someone who is trustworthy, who will not hold our anger against us, but encourages us to find Him in our questions — not necessarily the answers.
The ocean tides ebb and flow at a regularly predictable interval. Our ebbs and flows of faith are perhaps predictable as well. God made us to question; He gave us emotions; and I believe that He loves us not in spite of, but because of, ourselves. This I believe, yet you know that I have had darkness, fear, and self-destruction eating at me. I have said many times, I am not a good pray-er. I ask others who are, to pray for me, but in reality, God is on my mind alot. And if I don’t pray formally, or even informally very well, certainly if He was nothing to me, I wouldn’t waste the time thinking about Him, and longing for a greater love for Him. But I am like everyperson: a contradiction to myself. I just trust that God’s passionate love will envelop me and keep me from harm. I am not worthy to meet Him or even be called by His Name, but I do look forward to the day when I am welcomed to the Home I have always longed for, to the Love I have never known, but yearned for. He will call me by my true name. I will no longer be ashamed, but absorbed into His very Being. We all will be so.
Margaret, thank you for all you contribute to BB. You must continue.
With love.

Dear Babs,
Like Larry nd my sEF forum partner, your response has been overwhelmingly supportive and gracious and I thank you for that. Perhaps G-d IS using Beyond blueto give me the sign I so desperately need that I AM one of His in spite of my shortcomings. I was discussing this with my caregiver’friend earlier today, and she opined that it was just “the adversary” attempting to pull me away from God through these doubts. whatever, the reality is, I feel so bouyed up by the responses I have gotten that my stay in the “snake pit” seems not to be holding me for as long as it frequently does. My doc also upped my antidepressant dosage today to see if perhaps that will also help and I contacted my therapist leaving a message for her to please call me to set up an “emergency(read”unschedled”) session. although M”" is not a particularly spiritual individual, she does know me pretty well and is very quick to catch me falling into old behavior patterns in which I devalue myself and my feelings; she’s good at what she does and specializes in the psychological rehabilitation of stroke survivors such as myself. i’m hoping that once all these pieces fall into place I’ll have a fresher perspective on the situation and need less assurance, but the B.B. responses I’ve received have been literally life-saving. I haven’t been suicidal or anuthing, but I HAVE been the most deeply depressed as i’ve been in probably a year or so. Doesn’t help that I’ve caught a “winter chest cold”, one of the prices we midwesterners pay for our lovely sptings and summers. I’m always more despondent when I’m feeling physically less than well; the two seem to “feed” off one another, creating a vicious cycle. (I don’t feel well, so I’m more depressed and sleep less well, which makes me feel even worse physically and so oN and so on.) It’s also the time of the month when my finances become more strained as I receive both my disability and retirement incomes around the twenty-fifth of each month and it’s a l-o-n-g stretch between checks. when I reach the middle of the month I’m generally checking my accounts daily to try to avoid overdrafts and the resulting fees. It was hard enough for me to manage my $ back when I was working and getting paid bimonthly; this once-a month stuff is even WORSE. So,looking more objectively, I’m beginning to ssee that there are several factors feeding my current miasma, and the outpouring of caring has been extremely edifying, especially when I take into consideration that each of you has your own issues to deal with and are allowing my well beingto occupy some of your time and thoughts.
I found your point about the intimacy of our relationship with God as compared to our spouses to be quite thought-provoking; I was never any good at negative emotions in my marriage, either (got hurt instead of angry when anger was warranted) thank you, Babs for reaching out to me and caring about the place i’m finding myself in. this kind of introspection is probably healthy for me in the long run, so all is not in vain! It at lesst leaves me feeling more positive about staying with the rest of you here on B.B.
blessings and hugs,
Margaret

Dear Margaret,
I live in Virginia, but grew up in Chicago and lived there until I was 34. My husband’s family is from here and one of the draws for me to make a move was that the weather is so much better than Chicago’s. The grey, the slush, the grey, the cold, the grey…I know you get the idea. I am certain that people up north have it harder in many ways than those of us who live further south. The cost of heating this winter has been huge for me and I keep the temperature set at about 63 degrees.

Babs: Chicago is directly across “the” lake from my Michigan residence, so you know EXACTLY what I’m talking about in terms of weather and how it has an effect on absolutely everything in our lives. I don’t know if I could enjoy living further south, as I truly enjoy te changing of the seasons we “Yanks” experience; especially spring when the rebirth of all that appeared to be dead becomes an almost spiritual experience for me. Heating costs are indeed a negative, but I reap such hope from the advent of spring here that I guess I think it’s a fair trade. (I live in the “Fruit Belt,” so the fruit trees all break into blossom as well as the crocus, daffodils, dogwoods and everything else. It is truly a wondrous thing to behold/smell/touch etc. One of my favorites of OHenry’s short stories is “The Last Leaf” partly because I can relate to that clinging of the spirit to reawakening asnd partly because I think it exemplifies the power of the spirit over the body.

Margaret,
I know the region you live in and it is beautiful. Add the mountains to your description, and that describes my area of Virginia, the Shenandoah Valley. We don’t have the same variety of fruits that grow in your area of Michigan, but just a skip from where I live are acres and acres of apple orchards. We still have the change of seasons that you experience, but the extreme cold doesn’t often strike here, and snow doesn’t stay on the ground for months. We also have a real spring that lasts for weeks, and a real fall that lasts for a good long time. Since we’ve been here the last twenty some years, there have been years with a bunch of snow, and years when there isn’t any. I loved Chicago, and still do, but I don’t miss the bitter winds coming off the lake, the gutters bursting with ice, the leaks caused by ice build up, and the unremitting gray skies. We haven’t had much snow the last few years, and I do miss watching the snow fall, but I don’t miss battling it week after week, like I did back home.
I now know where you live, and from another posting that you are a red-head. It is good to put you in some sort of context as we write back and forth.

Babs,
i’ve driven through the Blue Risge Mountains and it is also a beautiful spot. Knowing that you have the season of rebirth makes me think maybe I COULD live that far south. Every detail about midwestern winter travails is one I have experienced, and my post-stroke less-than-steady equilibrium makes it even more difficult to walk outside during winter; those lake winds you described have more than once actually blown me off my feet! I don’t think relocation is anywhere in my mear future as I have a fairly-well established support system here which I’ve come to depend on. i’ve also been doing some one-on-one tutoring (they come to me) in the past two years with children who are experiencing academic difficulty. It allows me to feel like I’m still contributing and keeps me out of bed some afternoons. All three of my sisters and my son live within an hour and a half of me, so I’d have to give that up as well. Regardless, your part of the country holds some appeal, so who knows what the future holds, especially after my son has married and moved to the chicago area where his fiance is from and a job awaits her once her occupational therapist’s licensing is completed?