Casting Stones

Casting Stones

Government judges deciding which ministers may perform marriages? Heaven forbid!

posted by Dr. Richard Land | 5:24pm Friday February 15, 2008

I find myself in the uncomfortable position of being in virtually total agreement with the Pennsylvania chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union in its suit against a judge who ruled that marriages are invalid “if presided over by a minister who does not regularly serve a church or preach in a physical house of worship.”
As a minister who does “regularly serve a church” and “preach in a physical house of worship,” I disagree vehemently with the judge’s ruling. If the separation of church and state means anything, it means that the state (in this case a court) has no authority or power to decide which ministers are “kosher” and which ones are not. That authority is reserved solely for the denominational group that is ordaining or authorizing a person to officiate at religious marriage ceremonies. Surely this falls under the category of “prohibiting the free exercise” of religion in our glorious First Amendment.
The state has the right to decide who may get married to whom (bans on incest and polygamy, etc.) but not to decide who may perform religious marriage ceremonies. If the state is ever granted the right to decide which religious groups are “approved” and which are “disapproved,” then as a nation we will have descended from the heights of religious liberty to the depths of mere governmental toleration. As I remember, our forefathers fought a revolution to free us from such governmental intrusion on our consciences.



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JGD

posted February 15, 2008 at 6:16 pm


There should be nothing uncomfortable about standing up for what’s right. A Christian, of all people, should know that the message is always more important than the messenger.
You and other zealots have made a demon out of the ACLU. That kind of blindness leads to people who cannot see the evil for the piety it often hides behind. Few things are more dangerous than that…



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ds0490

posted February 16, 2008 at 12:18 am


The religious right has indeed demonized the ACLU for, in their words, trying to remove religion from the public square. Of course to make this point they must ignore the dozens of cases the ACLU has taken to protect the rights of individuals to freely express their religious beliefs.
It is laughable that Rev. Land finds himself uncomfortable agreeing with the ACLU over this. It speaks to just how far out of the mainstream he is with his Christian reconstructionist message.



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Richard Land

posted February 19, 2008 at 4:42 pm


I find it fascinating that critics castigate me for feeling a little uncomfortable for agreeing with the ACLU’s position instead of commenting on the position on which the ACLU and I agree.
Secondly, anyone who thinks I’m a Christian Reconstructionist should read my book, The Divided States of America?, where I eviscerate Christian Reconstructionism.
Lastly, the position that I take in supporting the ACLU on this issue is a position that no Christian Reconstructionist would take. I would expect criticism to at least be rational; evidently my expectations are too high.



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O. Blivius

posted March 14, 2008 at 11:47 am


The state has the right to decide who may get married to whom (bans on incest and polygamy, etc.) but not to decide who may perform religious marriage ceremonies.
What we need, viz. “separation of church and state”, is a clear statement of the State’s goals and hence its definition of “marriage”. The ongoing debate re. “defense of marriage” is absurd.
If we are–and our Constitution says we are–a secular union, no religious body should be able to dictate to our masses what constitutes a “couple”, a “family”, a “faith” or a “covenant”. These things must be LEGALLY and not THEOLOGICALLY defined.
The debate over so-called “gay marriage” only arises because, under current legal definitions, only “immediate family” may visit or decide for critically- or terminally-ill patients in a hospital and only “members of household” are covered by most group health plans. Most LGBT people couldn’t care less what theological, religious or fiduciary importance others attach to “marriage” just as long as they are able to define “family” as they see fit and so define which members of their respective “households” are eligible for group health benefits or Social Security survivor benefits.
In view of the foregoing, why limit your outrage to the mere performance of “weddings”? My father performed my brother’s wedding ceremony; my grandfather performed my parents’. Neither patriarch is an ordained minister; my father is a retired professor and my grandfather was a Member of Parliament. Within their respective spheres of influence, both could legally perform weddings. Actually, the only instrument that should be REQUIRED for a “wedding” to take place is a valid MARRIAGE LICENSE, and that only to ensure that each partner is aware of any STDs the other(s) might have.
It may be argued–and has been, elsewhere–that “marriage” has been instituted for the protection of any progeny that may issue therefrom. It makes sense, in that event, to limit “marriage” to persons capable of producing live young (e.g., fertile heterosexual couples). However, if that is the purpose and scope of the law, why extend it to include determination of heirs, powers of attorney or powers of execution? What have those things to do with protecting children or ensuring their welfare? In the days before women comprised an appreciable workforce segment, it certainly made sense to protect their estate as well by compelling men to care for those they covenanted with to house, keep and derive progeny from. However, even that notion is largely obsolete.
I am a Christian man and am wed to one woman. We have one son. We are bound in an everlasting covenant of marriage. What we embrace for ourselves within the sanctity of our relationship with God and with one another is, frankly, none of the State’s business–nor should it be. However, just because I embrace certain truths and values does not mean that I have any right to impose those ideas on anyone who may embrace others. If the shoe were on the other foot–if I were a straight Christian in an overwhelmingly gay Wiccan society–I would not consider oppressively exclusive laws to be fair. In a secular nation such as ours, fairness is the standard to be held above all others.



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recovering ex-Pentecostal

posted May 12, 2008 at 4:08 pm


I am a Christian male. married to one male. We have no children, nor does my youngest (heterosexual) sister, also a Christian woman, married to one man. Boy, can we blow our own horns, eh?
“I would expect criticism to at least be rational; evidently my expectations are too high.”
Mr. Land, you have yet to come up with ONE “rational” explanation of why my marriage ought not be valid, and yet you fight it still, falsely insisting you have to somehow “defend” heterosexual marriage.
You want rational? You go first, I say.
Meanwhile, (back to topic) I doubt you are actually in favour of those online schools that send out certificates avowing the receiver is, in ‘fact’, an “ordained minister”, consequently authorized to perform marriages.



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