City of Brass

Shari'a courts and domestic law

Tuesday September 16, 2008

A can of worms, indeed: ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases. The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from...
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Comments
razib
September 16, 2008 11:18 PM

"The word dhimmitude is one of those terms, like crusade or inquisition or reformation, that touches on centuries-old religious fault lines but has very little meaning or applicability in the modern world"

hm. well, the usage inspired by bat y'eor's work might be rhetorical, but i think there are islamic countries where dhimmitude has plenty of meaning and applicability (e.g., in iran de jure and de facto, and in places like pakistan de facto).

Aziz Poonawalla
September 17, 2008 7:16 AM

I agree that dhimmitude is existent in varying degrees throughout the muslim world, but the context here is in regards to the west - the idea that Shari'a tribunals represent dhimitude of any sort is simply false. The usage of the word in a western context inverts its meaning from "set of laws and rules that disadvantage non-muslim minorities" to "any action by muslim minorities to assert their religious identity". The concept of dhimmitude is inherently one imposed upon a minority by muslim majorities, and bat ye'or's nonsensical screeds aside, muslims are minorities in the west and will likely always remain so.

razib
September 17, 2008 2:55 PM

" The concept of dhimmitude is inherently one imposed upon a minority by muslim majorities, and bat ye'or's nonsensical screeds aside, muslims are minorities in the west and will likely always remain so."

i'll agree with the general thrust of your post, but it isn't really *inherently* about an imposition of a majority upon a minority. remember that dhimmitude was formulated originally during a time of non-muslim numerical preponderance, and was enacted in places like south asia where muslims were a minority. the key issues is *dominance*, not *numbers*. using that substitution your point probably still holds though.

Aziz Poonawalla
September 18, 2008 1:54 PM

I'll grant the dominance argument, since the mughals did use the dhimmi system in India even though Hindus numerically outweighed them. But they were the ruling class, having attained their power via conquest, not merely an (immigrant, post-colonial) ethnic minority. I don't think the analogy has any validit, since modern muslims in the west have no political power and the "dominance" they exert is nothing more than that granted to them on the basis of liberal political correctness. These accomodations made to the muslim minority, in the US but especially in the UK, are fundamentally weak because they are dependent on the political climate.

I just dont see any way in which the legal concept of dhimmi has any relevance at all to mdoern muslim minorities in the EU.

Lee Byers
September 19, 2008 10:54 AM

My comments are probably more like the rest you receive in that my
thinking is along the lines of look at the quran and then speak
about what is being done in the name of law and order. I believe the Brits are really ignorant in
allowing this to happen. I thought that the French would be the first
to go this direction, however they seem to be able to read and
comprehend the quran, so it will be only a short time untill they
fall into line with their correct thing and do as the
brits have done, because the brits did it. In America there will
be such an outcry that even our govrnment wont be able to horse pucky
this into law like they do many things, to be correct and tell us how
we should live. We are of course not all Democrats here, so there
in lies the problem with the government going over the peoples head.
Wake up World. There is going to be another revolution in America if
our government doesnt pull their head out of a dark place and thats
as it should be just to get ridd of the good old boys that have been
in Washington to long and not working for the people. L.B.

Christopher
September 22, 2008 2:07 AM

Ask the Copts of Egypt if there is no such thing as dhimmi status.

As for the UK. This is just the first step by the Muslims of the UK to impose Sharia law on the country. When Muslims feel that they have enough Sharia Courts and power they will then declare the UK an Islamic country. As according to Islam, Sharia law is for all and no other laws will exist. That is when it will hit the fan in the UK. Pandora's Box has been opened.

For more on the issue.

Tancredo Proposes Anti-Sharia Bill

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/09/tancredo-proposes-anti-sharia-bill.html

Dr Anis Al-Qasem
September 27, 2008 2:21 PM

This discussion of dhimmi is entirely irrelevant to the issue. The concept under the Sharia refers to non-Muslim communities living under Islamic rule and is designed to provide protection to these communities and permits to apply their own laws, formerly mainly religious or ecclesiastical to member of the community in question. A muslim living in a non-Muslim state is not a dhimmi of that state, but enjoys the protection of the state. I do not see how this concept may affect the jurisdiction or decisions of the British Sharia tribunals. These tribunals will be dealing with Muslim parties who in no way can be called dhimmis.

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City of Brass by Aziz Poonawalla approaches issues from the perspective of a Muslim of the West. Aziz, a member of the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim community, has been blogging since early 2003. His other major Islamsphere projects include the group weblog Talk Islam and the annual Brass Crescent Awards. Aziz currently resides near Madison, WI with his wife and children.

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