The Bible contains the Word of God. But is it the only Scripture? The One and Only? Is every other 'Holy Scripture' wrong? Inaccurate? Not the truth? = = = = = = = = = = = = =...
Neal,
Great question, one that I thought about for years. Can there be a Holy Scripture that was revealed to only one group or person? After many years of study every type of Scripture, the interesting concept I found was the way scriptures were revealed. Dreams and visions or internal revelations are the conduit that connects the spiritual and physical. The amazing aspect is that people can only accept secondary revelations given many years ago, and the majority of people refuse to realize that revelations to one group or people belong to those of that group and time.
Imagine having a vision or dream. You tell your local acquaintances the interpretation that you believe is correct. Your interpretation will be built on your knowledge and personal experiences. Your story is orally passed down for a generation or two. Then your story is written down, declared scripture and then locked in “stone”. Your story is read, studied and dissected word for word for a thousand years or more, it is written in prayers, songs and creeds - repeated over and over. In all religions, repetitions of ideas and the increased number of people believing in these ideas will create that group’s absolute truth.
Why did it happen long ago, why not now? I believe it was the audience at that time. These people were searching for a spiritual connection or answer to the meaning of life and death. It was before the time of information, science, technology - before the audience wanted physical facts and hard truth. Before they wanted to know how the magician performed what appeared to be a miracle. The early generations openly accepted many different revelations from many different prophets. The majority of religions started when people had an open mind set.
Is it time for us to listen to our own revelations, dreams and visions? Have we become so closed mined to today’s spiritual communications that we close our hearts to today’s experiences and mindlessly listen to ancient revelations over and over? Do you really believe a revelation that I received or an old prophets revelation are relevant to you or anyone else? If God spoke to anyone, it is a reasonable conclusion that he will speak to everyone. But don’t expect a thousand page rule book for life. It may be no more then a intuition. Did others receive little sparks of truth or ideas? With ancient Scriptures we do not look for these glimpses of light other received with an open mind, but we only yearn to study the ramblings of the authors trying to explain, in there limited mind set, the dream or vision they experienced. Should we open our minds and commune with God or should we worship Scripture? Can we find God without Scripture? If the written word is that important, why didn’t Jesus or Mohammad for that matter write a single word?
Walter Renssen (Netherlands)
June 25, 2008 8:46 AM
For Christians this book can help to understand this the bible.
It has been my experience as an former Ordained Charismatic Christian Minister, that Christians get lock up into trying to make the Bible be the unaltered word of God for man's redemptive salvation. This requires IMHO one to create more and more stories and myths to make the bible what it is not, everything from the Adam and Eve to the Virgin Birth.
I agree with you, only, I would add, the Bible has words of God in it, but it is not THE WORD of God.
peace and love.
amilius
June 25, 2008 10:20 PM
Neale, All of the Sacred Texts you name, invite the aware individual to regard the benefits of Choices over time so that one might observe the benevolence generated by gracious choices, the instructive consequence invited by ungracious choices, and the ever-present opportunity to choose for others as one would choose for one's self and benefit by understanding the ever-present process that One designed in the beginning. Too many religions only see trees for pruning where there is a grand forest for appreciation without pruning. We are all One. One would have only designed it this way before embarking upon the journey of Many. We are both One and Many because One imagines Itself as Many, and Many are One. Namaste.
nillawafer
June 25, 2008 10:32 PM
the problem for many believing christians are passages like matthew 16: 13-20 where jesus says he is the only son of god and in others where he says people can only come to "the father" (god) through him.
if a christian takes this very seriously and literally then he must either cut bait or fish and decide if jesus was just a madman or confused person or was serious when he said these things (if he actually said them), or the whole thing is a lie. then their whole raison d'etre is thrown into chaos and it's a real struggle to figure out where to go from there. you can't be angry or upset with people for the fear this would cause and the sense of betrayal it would cause for turning against a god who asked them to worship only him.
i don't know if other deities from other cultures declared themselves the only son of god and asked all people to bow before him. i only know of yahweh, jesus christ, and allah asking this of people. jesus also commanded his followers to spread the gospel. it's hard for people to feel they are betraying a god who has been there for them in times of duress and pain.
amilius
June 25, 2008 10:35 PM
All words are words of God. Some combinations of words are not of God's direct inspiration. The puzzle we get to play with is called discernment. Some of the most beautiful words ever written came through Neale on page 4 of CWG 1 about discernment:
"Mine is always your Highest Thought, your Clearest Word, your Grandest Feeling. Anything else is from another source."
Then there is more on page 5:
"The Highest Thought is always that thought which contains joy. The Clearest Words are those words which contain truth. The Grandest Feeling is that feeling which you call love."
If what one's regard for whatever source does not approach this description in one's regard for it, one does well to seek another source to appreciate.
Thanks, Neale. Seldom has inspiration been so highly, clearly, grandly shared.
Namaste.
Carrie
June 26, 2008 3:04 AM
The word of God is alive and in us. In the awareness of this living word within, we might even read the letters on a cereal box and still hear the words of God. hehe
"I'm not aware of too many things, I know what I know if you know what I mean. Philosophy, is the talk on a cereal box. Religion, is a smile on a dog". Edie Brickell
The bible is a sealed book to the natural mind in man, and only in the identity of ONE LIFE in all can we ever begin to unveil it.
hootie1fan
June 26, 2008 9:39 AM
Too many Christian who believe that the Bible as the literal word or of God cherry pick the edicts that they believe in. They have expectations that Christians follow SOME passage from the Old Testament which is based on Jewish religious text and ignore entire lesons from the New Testamehnt which is what the Christian faith is supposed to be based on.
frgough
June 26, 2008 10:55 AM
Yawn. More meaningless blather borne of lack of critical thinking.
Two bodies of scripture that preach irreconcilably contradictory doctrines cannot both be true.
The New Testament preaches Jesus Christ as the Son of God and redeemer of mankind. The Koran teaches Jesus Christ as a prophet and denies the atonement, an absolutely fundamental New Testament doctrine.
Both books cannot be true.
frgough
June 26, 2008 11:03 AM
On the contrary, hootie1,
Those Christians do not cherry pick. They take the Bible as a whole and understand the role of the doctrines therein.
The New Testament is more Old Testament than you think. Jesus Christ wasn't all love and puppy dogs. He was repent and turn away from sin or suffer the consequences. A very old testament message.
In fact, he taught a number of moral commandments stricter than the OT. The OT forbad adultery. Christ forbids lust.
The folks who are doing the cherry picking are people like the author of this blog who want to see Jesus as some wise sage singing "all you need is love," instead of the Son of God telling mankind to repent from its sins. Sins that people like the author also like to cherry pick, focusing on ones like don't hate, and ignoring ones like don't fornicate.
Dillard Munsell
June 26, 2008 2:09 PM
Yes, The oracles of God occurs just three times in the Bible. Paul is emphasizing the great privilege and responsibility that was committed to the Jews when God gave His "oracles" to them, a word implying "divinely inspired utterances."> (The Common wealth of Isreal.) >What is it? Not the Ten Commanants? Steven althought called them Lively oracles. Paul said when the commandment came sin revived and I died. (When the Law was given at Mount Sinai we died also.
At Mount Sinai 3000 fell but at the Pentecost 3000 lived. So the law is aganst us it brings death, but the Oracles in Hebrews 6 brings life to the teachers and the hearers. See Romans 7:8-10
Romans 7:8-10 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. (Got it )9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. (Got it?,) 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Then the author of Hebrews rebuked those Hebrew Christians who had still not learned the very "first principles of the oracles of God," despite having been professing Christians for a long time (Hebrews 5:12). Finally, the apostle Peter urged his readers: "If any man speak, (Or write?) let him speak as the oracles of God" (1Peter 4:11.) That is, anyone who presumes to speak for the Lord must "Preach the word" (II Timothy 4:2). It is not our words.
Haumana Dao
June 27, 2008 12:04 PM
I just wanted to add a quick comment about something I took away from a class I took in my first quarter, freshman year (1976) at DePaul University. It was called, "Religious Beliefs of Mankind" and taught me about the main religions of the world. Towards the end of the course I came up with what I called "The Atheist Paradox". It goes like this; through a series of events, an atheist has come to understand and accept that there is a larger power outside of him/her and is now willing to accept the notion of God into their life. This person then embarks on a quest to find a religion to join. When this person goes to a Christian church, the priest/pastor says to follow the ways of Jesus as it is the only way. When going to a Jewish synagogue, the rabbi says the same thing, that the Jewish way is the best path to God. Eventually this person ends up more confused than when he/she started because each and every religion said their way was The Way.
I've been a fan of Neale's writings since they were first published and have come to understand that God appears to you in the way you require it (not need it there is nothing that you need making it an illusion). This inevitably means that God appears to you at first in the way that's the closed to your culture/upbringing. As the world has expanded over the years with the internet now making cultural information globally available, we now have a myriad of choices and can even combine them if we so choose. These are exciting times for it allows the infinite experience of God to be more available that ever before. Rejoice in that!
Deb
June 27, 2008 10:11 PM
God speaks, as God has always spoken. To assume God spoke to only one people, at one point in history, is to misunderstand the Greatness of God.
Discernment is not 'cherry picking'. If you see God as less than perfect, you are missing out. There is no wrath of God.
Reaganite in NYC
June 28, 2008 10:35 AM
NDW: "And so, at its very beginning (indeed, by its very title) Conversations with God presents a challenge, upsets the apple cart, turns most present-day theology on its ear. Yet, interestingly, few people seem to have minded; few who have read CwG seem to have any quarrel with the possibility, at least, that God has revealed Himself once more through the written word."
Neale (or is it Donald?),
(1) There is nothing new about your work. Every decade or so some "guru" emerges -- a creation of the book publishing industry -- to present the wine of the old gnosticism in new bottles. If it hadn't been you, Mr. Walsch, it would have been someone else.
(2) If "few who have read CwG seem to have any quarrel" with the notion that your work represents Divine revelation ... that's because no serious theologian takes your work seriously. Why should they?
Michael M
June 29, 2008 5:28 PM
Actually, Reganite, you couldn't be further from the truth. But that is ok. It is your belief. You are loved all-the-same. There are many wonderful works out there. Not just CwG. Wait till my "creation of the book publishing industry" comes out. You and all the "serious theologian's" out there might need some Advil. Peace!
Deb
July 1, 2008 10:00 AM
Michael, I absolutely love you.
Patrick
July 1, 2008 4:13 PM
I believe that absolute truth exists.
Like as an example, light exists and its behavior is understood and we know how to use it for many purposes from optical systems to high power lasers. To have an alternate truth about light would have lead to failure in its use and the invention of the laser would not have occurred. We will not and have never derived success driven by false and flawed concepts. This is the universe God made and science has only given us a glimpse, but science proves that the universe is ordered and there is absolute truth! So in the same regard there can only be one truth about God and who he is, and the belief cannot be made up of everyone's conflicting concepts and beliefs. If the laws of the universe were truly this way complete chaos would results and existence would not be!
In the same regard God exists and is one individual, not what ever or who ever you wish to make him. That is the puzzle of faith, everyone must seek the real God on his own but few truly find him! God cannot be all the faiths put together conveniently shaped in my preference of a God, that would be light combining all the past and present scientific theories on light and then go building a laser beam. Be careful when you hit the switch because you might kill yourself!
Your theory is like this.
I would suggest praying more for God to reveal himself in his one and only true form.
Take care
Leviathan
July 3, 2008 1:34 AM
"Do you believe the bible is the inspired word of God?" Dana, at Yahoo.com
Neale "Yes, I do. The entire Bible, including the Old Testament"
Neale does not believe anything the Bible says.Want proof?
Neale "For the longest time we have had a false notion of our identity, imagining ourselves to be the offspring, or creations, of a Divine Creator..."1
God: "And God said, Let us make man in our image..." (Gen 1:26) "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them.."(Ex 20:11)
Neale:"...who has separated ourselves from Him (or Her, or It) and set up conditions upon which we may return. We have told ourselves and our children and our children's children that unless we meet these specific conditions, we cannot return to our Creator, but must forever be separated from Him (or Her, or It)."1
God:"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God..."(Isaiah 59:2)
Do you want to came back to God? It's not hard.God made it real easy.
Jesus said unto her," I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (John11:25-26)
Apparently,Neale does not believe the Bible.
Neale calls God "Him (or Her, or It)." He claims to talk to God,but he can't even tell you who or what God is.Of course, Neale claims that you (we) are God.2 How does he know? If this is true,why do you need Neale? If this is true,is Neale talking to himself? If not,who or what is this God he is talking about?
The way I understood it, whether you listen to Neale and read his books, or if you read the Bible, you'll still be going to heaven. It doesn't matter (or so I believe) that they are two contradictions, because it's all about finding the truth in yourself. If you believe and follow the Bible, you'll go to heaven, if you believe and follow Neale's words, you'll go to heaven, and even if you have no beliefs or texts to rely on, you can't avoid going to heaven.
Also, we don't need Neale, because I think that if you really wanted to, you could speak to God yourself. However, to me, it seems like the contents of his books make a lot of sense. I don't think I believe in God or anything 'supernatural', but I like Neale's books because they are logical. To me it doesn't matter if he is speaking to himself, and making it all up, or if he got it all from some higher, spiritual being. Because in the end, they're all wise, comforting words.
Thank you ~
Leviathan
July 5, 2008 12:53 PM
About the double post:
I was having technical difficulties.I did not know it posted the first time.
To John
" It doesn't matter (or so I believe) that they are two contradictions..."
How do you know it does not matter? Would you say the same thing if contradictions came up in other parts of your life? Health,financial,legal,or business?It does not bother you that he lies?
"...because it's all about finding the truth in yourself"
Who says you can find truth in yourself? How do you know that truth is in you?
"if you believe and follow Neale's words, you'll go to heaven, and even if you have no beliefs or texts to rely on, you can't avoid going to heaven"
How do you know?
" I don't think I believe in God or anything 'supernatural', but I like Neale's books because they are logical. "
Then why read his books? Logical? Based on what? There is nothing that I've read on Neale's website that would be logical.
"To me it doesn't matter if he is speaking to himself, and making it all up, or if he got it all from some higher, spiritual being. Because in the end, they're all wise, comforting words"
So it does not matter that Neale is lying to you? How can a lie be wise and comforting? Wouldn't you want to know for sure if he is telling you the truth or not?
Leviathan
ria
July 6, 2008 12:10 AM
to Leviathan:
how do you KNOW that neale is lying? because you have read somewhere
some other "truth?" like he said do you know how many so called "truths" are out there in so called "holy" scripture books?? YOu say how do you know you can find the truth in yourself? Well how do you know that whatever truth YOUVE Found and decided is true for you is THE TRUTH either? do you KNOW ABSOLUTELY??? if so, how do you know absolutely do you have PROOF beyond the fact that its written? And WHO decided these "truths" were holy? Men did. and Men edited it and decided what was the word of god and what
wasnt.. you think the information in the bible was ALL THAT WAS written about Jesus.. no one else scribbled anything down??? what about the women?? well either they werent allowed to write or their info was not put in it. The Men that put together all the books in the bible lived A LONG TIME AGO and they DIDNT even UNDERSTAND The workings of mother nature like we do now. science was non existence. Floods were to "clear out the evil people" so they THOUGHT> now we know floods are mother natures way of balancing herself out. Same with Volcanos if they dont erupt one big eruption would happen.. they are an escape valve. SO all floods according to the bible like down
in Louisiana is god clearing out the evil? is that what YOU THINK??.. And back then lets see, lets pick something out of the bible since you were using the bible as the "word of god:" Deuteronomy 22 has a lot of interesting things in it that if we were to continue today, people would still be stoning and putting everyone to death for every little thing.
Ex: passage 18: if an man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen to his father or mother they shall have him apprehended and brought to the elders of his home city.. where they shall say, this son of ours is stubborn and unruly etc.. Then all of his fellow citizens shall stone him to death. Thus shall you purge the evil from your
midst and all Israel on hearing of it shall fear. this they say is the word of god!
and this is only ONE EXAMPLE there are some things in there if you look that thank god are NOT appropriate for todays world. We have
become much more loving thanks to examples like Christ and Budda.
The Old Testament no longer fits this world. that is why people argue over bits and pieces of it.. no one agrees on the whole thing anymore
there is too much in there that if we followed it, we would never grow.
we'd still have slaves!! have you really read the bible... I have.
Okay more about the contradiction thing. Why do you think there is
only one way to go to heaven? One way to have good health? there are 10 different things that can cause a headache. the cure can be
10 different things. Finances lets see there are alot of different ways to invest money which way is THE RIGHT WAY THE ONLY WAY?? isnt investing in realestate and saving money CONTRADICTORY?? Last I looked if you want to go to Arizona say, you can fly take a train a bus
or walk.. either way you get to your destination... couldnt it be
that way with god too?? Couldnt god be soooo big and love us sooo much he made it easy to see him in the afterlife?
It is apparent to me you have only been on Neales website and have
not read the books in their entirety or you wouldnt be making the
comments you are.
By the way I understand the Absolute truth thing about light but you cannot compare that to a multi dimensional being like God. Light is a
"Thing" in a way, a physical thing with physical properties that can be measured, the way it, the speed it travels etc... You can look at a light bulb and say there is light,.. can you look at something and say there is god?? actually i could because i believe god is everywhere...
but you do not think that. and thats okay. I am simply showing you
you cannot compare the two.
God is not something you can compare and look at properties of...
All we have are the writings. and it is up to us to believe what
writing is the right writing and how do you do that? i think you have chosen the bible right? okay, well why that writing?? because it feels right?? because it makes the most sense to you?? because your mom and dad said it was right? well you could say that about someone who believes in the Koran or anything else as the inpired word of god
you see you decide your truth!!! My sister in law thinks that unless
youre "baptist" faith and born again, you are going to hell. and if
you ask her its absolute truth. for her yes, for me and everyone else
who isnt baptist,, no our truth is different ... do you see??
we create our own reality and our own truth and choose whatever
we THINK serves us. Many times its the EGO that wants to feel
it is better than the rest, knows the one way, and with that the spirit which beats your heart and my heart what we have in common, our oneness and same ness disappears and that is the cause
of our planets unrest.
Bless us all with the growing of our
consciousness and what serves us best
according to what the world says they
want to achieve.
Ria
Leviathan
July 6, 2008 9:45 PM
To Ria
"How do you KNOW that neale is lying?"
From what Neale said.Go back and read the quotes from Neale.
"...like he said do you know how many so called "truths" are out there.."
That should tell you somebody is lying.
"Well how do you know that whatever truth YOUVE Found and decided is true for you is THE TRUTH"
I don't decide truth.God is the one that says what truth is.Jesus said you can't find truth within.
And he(Jesus) said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. (Mark 7:20-23)
Absolute truth is independent of my thoughts,actions.opinions,and feelings.It will be true no matter what I believe.
Ex:Some people believed the earth was flat,did it change for them? No!!! Truth is not going to change just because you don't believe it.
Why do I believe the Bible is true?
1.Science 2.Prophecy 3.History 4.Logic Those are just some of the reasons I believe the Bible is true.
If absolute truth exist in our world,then it has to exist in religion.
What does Neale claim? To be God!! Based on what? He says so. Can he PROVE he is God? Do you believe he is God? If so,why?
"you think the information in the bible was ALL THAT WAS written about Jesus"
All that is reliable.
Would you want somebody to write about you without knowing you? Which one would be accurate? One writing by a friend,or one writing 200 years after you are dead?
"SO all floods according to the bible like down in Louisiana is god clearing out the evil?"
Where did you get this?
It starts in Deuteronomy 21:18 not 22:18. That is how I find out if something is true,I check it.
All of creation,including man,belongs to God.He is the one that makes the laws and rules.If you don't like it,what can you do?
What about all the pagans killing Christians for not bowing to there idols? Where was all that "all paths lead to God" bologna? Where was the love? Apparently,they followed your theology:
"we create our own reality and our own truth and choose whatever we THINK serves us." Hitler done the same thing.
"Why do you think there is only one way to go to heaven?"
One God would make one way to Himself.Is God the author of confusion?
Why do you think there are many ways?
Do all paths lead to god? How would you know? What would they be? What god will these paths lead to?
"Okay more about the contradiction thing.Finances lets see there are alot of different ways to invest money which way is THE RIGHT WAY THE ONLY WAY??"
You did not understand.
Ex:If the bank told you that you have $5,000 in your account one month, and the next month they told you it was a $1,000,would that bother you? Would you do anything about it? Plus,you can PROVE that the bank made a mistake,what would you do?
What if the bank said,"we create our own reality and our own truth and choose whatever we THINK serves us." What would think?
"It is apparent to me you have only been on Neales website and have not read the books in their entirety or you wouldnt be making the comments you are."
I only quoted what Neale said.Does he change his mind in his books? If he does,he is a very unstable man.
I did not say anything about light.That comes from the post by Patrick.
"We have become much more loving thanks to examples like Christ..."
Did you know that Jesus believed the O.T. was the Word of God?
"All we have are the writings. and it is up to us to believe whatwriting is the right writing and how do you do that?"
You test it.
Do you believe everything Neale says? Do you believe he is God? Do you believe you are God? Do you believe him because he can PROVE what he says,or do you believe it because Neale said so and you like it?
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."(1 John 4:1 )
"My sister in law thinks that unless youre "baptist" faith and born again, you are going to hell."
She is right about being born again.How do you become born again? Faith in Jesus Christ.She is wrong about "unless youre "baptist" faith."
Why should I trust Neale?
Leviathan
Nick
July 7, 2008 1:44 PM
i have read most of the comments on here and I see that there is a little frustration about the truth of Neale and what he says. God is boundless and the abundant truth that has shown even great mean of history truth but they did not believe. he showed Moses through a burning bush and he still refused to believe and was fearful of what would happen. Jonah and the whale where he was fearful of the truth and Gideon where he must have proof of the truth. It is only human for us to look in ourselves and find our own fear that makes us believe what we believe. It is knowing God that we understand the fear of an everlasting life without him and his love. And that my friends is truth. The situation at hand is also knowing how to reach a being that is perfect and without sin. A being that even was seperated from his own son because he was of sin.....a being that has given a part of his own heart or son to us for the forgiveness of our sins. I am not a historian or a bible scholar nor am I studying to be either. But I do understand what Neale is doing by leading others and myself to a more conscious dialogue of my Father, my friend, my brother, my mother ,etc.,myself and the truth or image of the life we have been given. There is only one hell and that is the loss or the choice of the seperation of God whether that be on earth or everlasting is our choice that he has given us. The tools that he as given us to understand his love is faith, giving, love,and mercy. Love is God and God is love. Faith is knowing that God is always ther for us. God gave us his only son to know that he is willing to give us everything. and Mercy is knowing we don't deserve it but even his son is willing to be the path for us to follow. What an example. Our hell is not accepting this and we ask ourselves what if I don't believe God's son is the the way or even the only way. Let me ask you something...very quickly. Without reading all of his wonderful books which I will make an effort because I believe he is on to something but...What do you feel? Honestly how do you feel about this idea of one man being your only way to the father..Was it meant to be like this? In all other writings no other messenger has ever said that he is only way to father or that they were the Son of God. They were prophets but never claimed such or more of God. I belive that Jesus is the Son of God. Whether or not you will be condemed by God for not coming through him is not my ruling or judgement call but I will say that I would see no reason to proclaim for he too showed us love and sacrifice for his dialogue with God. If Jesus had been around in this time do you think he would have gotten 1.5 million dollars for his conversation with God. Of course and probably used it the same way right....who knows but I can tell you that they ended up crucifing someone who believed and lived a life of love and compassion.When we reach the point of Jesus and his teachings maybe we too can become a prophet but until then why not use him as a passage of hope and faith for he too is a tool given to us by God if not given of God. The bible has many translation that may or may have not been changed by the government at different times. Some believe it to be only a fairy tale and others believe in their own book. Maybe I believe what my parents told me .....but I do have my own faith in God and Jesus is my savior for allowing me to come in the prescence of God and the Holy Spirit comforts me when I have doubt. For someone else in a different culture it is our job to be fisher's of men. To seek and find this lost souls that are reading into false prophets, for it is not in being good that allows us into heaven , for who decides what is good? but for the good of God and his love that allows us the mercy. In a somewhat shallow form but in depth of the human soul we must find our own path just remember God is not the only one speaking to us everyday throught the dialogue of man. Let us not forget who the greatest deceiver of all time is...he too knows everword of the Bible more so than most christians. btw Neale you hit it right on the mark of telling the truth and letting your own followers know what the truth is.....has anyone read the book of Mormon and seen what you are given at the end or in Heaven....I understand God speaking to us in real time and also letting us know his truths here and now but I find that this religion might be a cult. I am not happy to feel this way or even pleased by this because they teach very similiar bliefs of my own and this cause some concern because i have friends in this following I just hope and pray God with have his words broken through the golden doors they have locked from their own followers.....which reminds me of way Jc was sent in the first place to take away the the curtain that seperates us from our father, mother, lover, friend, brother, daughter,leader,king, our holy God , to bridge the gap that made has made through our own sin and demise. Thanks Neale I definatel would like to hear from you in any way or fashion. Best Regards to those seekers with a lamp unto our feet. Nick
Thaddeus Tea
July 10, 2008 8:41 PM
I realize that people believe many different things. Some confess to not knowing what to believe. This I understand.
I don't understand the position of Neale however. He claims to believe that the writings of mutually exclusive texts are all "true".
The Hindu belief system acknowledges many "gods". The Jewish belief system says there is only "One God". Neale says they are both correct. Hm-mm?
Johnny says "2+2=4". Sarah says "2+2= -18". They both can't be right, but neither may be crazy. The person that believes Johnny and Sarah are both right is the one that is crazy.
It reminds me of the politician that is asked where they stand on a particular issue. The politician responds, "Some of my friends are for it. Some of my friends are against it. As for me, I stand with my friends."
It is fine to say that you don't know what you believe. It is politically correct to take no position on what you believe. But it is intellectually questionable to say you believe mutually exclusive statements.
From a biblical perspective, the author of Hebrews claimed that God in fact did speak at different times in different ways.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, (NKJV)
The author of Hebrews did not claim however that contradictory belief systems came from the same Mind.
Intellectual coherency does not allow such a position.
Anonymous
July 15, 2008 2:52 AM
07.14.08
If someone has the courage
to draw out his dream from the
bosom of his soul and fight for
it’s fulfillment,there is one test
he has to overcome, that is -
Love.
Paulo Coelho
Dear Mr. Walsch!
Soon it will be five years, since the day I first held in my hands the Russian edition of “Conversations with God”. My life has been changed radically since then. Today, when I am familiar with all of your books, I can say only one thing: thank you for this great gift to the humanity.
I can’t say exactly which one of those books had the most impact on me. The first “Conversations” gave answers to many questions, that I have been searching for, throughout my entire life ( I am already in my fifties ), questions about hell, immaculate conception, punishment , revenge etc. There is no waste word in them .
Reading “Moments of Grace” I, myself , experienced something, that I can bravely call a “moment of grace”, but when I read “Home with God”, I understood how deeply I am loved, loved by Universe. Being loved is a very important thing, isn’t it? I sincerely thank you for that unforgettable experience. In my opinion there is only one title to all of your books - “Bible for today”. During these five years I told a lot of people about you and your books. To some of them I even rendered your books ,because I wanted the people, who were close to me, to have a chance to join your Revelations, to get to know your (and now mine too) God, to see the true colors of this world with eyes wide open and to understand the concept and importance of our Oneness.
Yet my most sacred wish still lives only in my mind, because I can’t find a way to accomplish it. That is - to translate your books and make them available to my people, to Armenians.
And you know what is interesting? From the moment I had the idea of translating your books into Armenian, all my business deals went down hills. I was not making enough money from my day job (I immigrated to US without any language skills and was making a living as a cab driver). I changed specialty after specialty, but the results were the same. Now I am taking classes to obtain a new profession. Soon I will graduate. Everybody guarantees job placement and a steady income. But …
Today I have a very strong suspicion, that all my business related affairs were a fiasco, just because I am not doing, what I suppose to do. Maybe my feelings were right, and all my losses is just God’s way to keep me closer to the idea of translating your books.
But there are so many obstacles. Obviously, I am limited in so many ways, to generate funds for that purpose , and most importantly, I have to provide for my family at the same time. I came up with an idea, maybe a crazy one, I don’t know, but I would like to share it with you , anyways.
As I understood, language is one of the key moments in your program “Give me 1000 men, and we will change the world”. Their is a lot of information about you and your books on the internet, but for the people with different ethnic backgrounds would have been much more interesting to know , what is exactly going on in the pages of your websites. For example a simple column in one of your sites, that will say “Languages” would make a huge difference. Anyone could click on it and choose the suitable language.
Dear Mr. Walsch! Would you be interested in something like that? Or maybe it is already done, and I just couldn’t find it. To be more specific, I am talking about Armenian language. If there was “ Armenian “ on the list of the languages, you could have introduced the concept of New God to a whole nation. I would be more than happy to be in your team and with your help and guidance organize a small group of people, to work on your new Armenian page. At the same time I could have a chance to accomplish my dream, I could translate your books into Armenian and you could publish them later on. I am hoping very much to get some kind of response from you. Thank you so much for taking the time to read my letter.
Respectfully, yours in God
Sam .
/Samvel Arakelyan/
Cyrus Rumi
July 16, 2008 6:08 PM
Very briefly : logic, history, reason, science and archaeological data all point to the fact that there are major flaws in most belief systems and the premises upon which they were founded.
It's all about 'faith' in your viewpoint, and not concrete evidence. A believer need only have faith, rationality plays no part.
Peace to you all.
Cyrus Rumi
(http://cyrusrumi.blogspot.com/)
Chief1989
July 22, 2008 3:39 PM
Cyrus,
That sounds good, until you ask what they have faith in. I may believe that eating Twinkies will get me into heaven, and hold to that belief devoutly, but if it is a lie, my belief profited me nothing.
And there is concrete evidence all around us: scientific, archaelogical, historical, astronomical, empirical. It's how you interpret the evidence that decides your viewpoint. And most people start off with previously-held presuppositions and biases that prohibits them from making an objective analysis.
A believer does have to have faith, but it matters on what you faith in. Believing sincerely in a lie will not make it become truth.
God bless,
Chief1989
Siraj
August 9, 2008 1:53 PM
Hi Neale,
It's rather perplexing to read your posting, listing religious scriptures. Why do you include Hindu scriptures with religious texts? Religion has never been associated with Hinduism as they are totally off tangent. If you had walked the talk, you would have realised the difference. Honestly, have you really delved into the Baghvad Gita or Mahabharat to even understand what you've said, leave alone believing it?
Jungblau
October 24, 2008 2:46 PM
Neale has in effect succeeded in strikig a nice well-deserved blow at the very backbone of religious fanaticism which may be dated since times immemorial. This fanaticism is for real, and is the cause of all strife and violence in much of the world today, since its assertions are, like: Your scripture is wrong, mine is right; Your god is false, mine true. Thaddeus Tea says that Hinduism is not even religion and it has so many gods, whereas all the others ARE religions even though all but one of them are false since only one says 2 + 2 = 4, and the others say something else. Tea's argument leads one nowhere. Which is 'that' religion which says 2 + 2 = 4 = Every religion thinks and says, and preaches, that it ALONE says 2 + 2 = 4.
But as Neale says, all scriptures are word of God, and not just Christianity or Judaism, or .. . God appeared at different times in different regions and said a number of ESSENTIAL things which are essentially the same in all the religions: love, kindness, nonviolence, etc., on which the Ten Commandments, or other similar dicta were made. The tales, fables, and the utterances of prophet, Messiah, ... differ, and much of it is liable to be interpreted in the wisdom or unwisdom of the interpreter - producing light of truth or heat of violence, respectively.
Hinduism has one God as the apex, and any number of gods, for air, light, water,..., even trees, mountains, ... can be visualized as god by the believer. Wise men view God in a multiplicity of forms, and in incarnations at different times. This paradigm, which differentiates all the rest of the religions, does not have to be approved by believers in other religions for a seal of its being a religion. Hindu texts also aver, and also aver through God Himself, that God can be realized by man in the way he imagines, and yet there are a few definite forms of Him which have become the common norm for so that they can all direct spiritual contemplation in congregation, or even at the individual or family level. But yes, in one sense, Hinduism is no religion, given the same facts above (in this paragrahph). It won't insist on changing your name, even your nominal allegiance of faith, or your present practices and beliefs. It wants one just to realize that God is manifest in all His creations, animate and inanimate. High end science has at last come to realize these great pinnacles of achievement of human spiritual reflection only in Hinduism, in as much as it has inferred through its own methods of investigation based on counting and measuring, that there is a single universal consciousness of which each of us is a just speck, a divine spark.
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.
Subscribe
Add to Del.icio.us
Add to Technorati
Add to Digg
Add to Newsvine
Neal,
Great question, one that I thought about for years. Can there be a Holy Scripture that was revealed to only one group or person? After many years of study every type of Scripture, the interesting concept I found was the way scriptures were revealed. Dreams and visions or internal revelations are the conduit that connects the spiritual and physical. The amazing aspect is that people can only accept secondary revelations given many years ago, and the majority of people refuse to realize that revelations to one group or people belong to those of that group and time.
Imagine having a vision or dream. You tell your local acquaintances the interpretation that you believe is correct. Your interpretation will be built on your knowledge and personal experiences. Your story is orally passed down for a generation or two. Then your story is written down, declared scripture and then locked in “stone”. Your story is read, studied and dissected word for word for a thousand years or more, it is written in prayers, songs and creeds - repeated over and over. In all religions, repetitions of ideas and the increased number of people believing in these ideas will create that group’s absolute truth.
Why did it happen long ago, why not now? I believe it was the audience at that time. These people were searching for a spiritual connection or answer to the meaning of life and death. It was before the time of information, science, technology - before the audience wanted physical facts and hard truth. Before they wanted to know how the magician performed what appeared to be a miracle. The early generations openly accepted many different revelations from many different prophets. The majority of religions started when people had an open mind set.
Is it time for us to listen to our own revelations, dreams and visions? Have we become so closed mined to today’s spiritual communications that we close our hearts to today’s experiences and mindlessly listen to ancient revelations over and over? Do you really believe a revelation that I received or an old prophets revelation are relevant to you or anyone else? If God spoke to anyone, it is a reasonable conclusion that he will speak to everyone. But don’t expect a thousand page rule book for life. It may be no more then a intuition. Did others receive little sparks of truth or ideas? With ancient Scriptures we do not look for these glimpses of light other received with an open mind, but we only yearn to study the ramblings of the authors trying to explain, in there limited mind set, the dream or vision they experienced. Should we open our minds and commune with God or should we worship Scripture? Can we find God without Scripture? If the written word is that important, why didn’t Jesus or Mohammad for that matter write a single word?
For Christians this book can help to understand this the bible.
http://www.crystalinks.com/enoch.html
Good point Neal.
It has been my experience as an former Ordained Charismatic Christian Minister, that Christians get lock up into trying to make the Bible be the unaltered word of God for man's redemptive salvation. This requires IMHO one to create more and more stories and myths to make the bible what it is not, everything from the Adam and Eve to the Virgin Birth.
I agree with you, only, I would add, the Bible has words of God in it, but it is not THE WORD of God.
peace and love.
Neale, All of the Sacred Texts you name, invite the aware individual to regard the benefits of Choices over time so that one might observe the benevolence generated by gracious choices, the instructive consequence invited by ungracious choices, and the ever-present opportunity to choose for others as one would choose for one's self and benefit by understanding the ever-present process that One designed in the beginning. Too many religions only see trees for pruning where there is a grand forest for appreciation without pruning. We are all One. One would have only designed it this way before embarking upon the journey of Many. We are both One and Many because One imagines Itself as Many, and Many are One. Namaste.
the problem for many believing christians are passages like matthew 16: 13-20 where jesus says he is the only son of god and in others where he says people can only come to "the father" (god) through him.
if a christian takes this very seriously and literally then he must either cut bait or fish and decide if jesus was just a madman or confused person or was serious when he said these things (if he actually said them), or the whole thing is a lie. then their whole raison d'etre is thrown into chaos and it's a real struggle to figure out where to go from there. you can't be angry or upset with people for the fear this would cause and the sense of betrayal it would cause for turning against a god who asked them to worship only him.
i don't know if other deities from other cultures declared themselves the only son of god and asked all people to bow before him. i only know of yahweh, jesus christ, and allah asking this of people. jesus also commanded his followers to spread the gospel. it's hard for people to feel they are betraying a god who has been there for them in times of duress and pain.
All words are words of God. Some combinations of words are not of God's direct inspiration. The puzzle we get to play with is called discernment. Some of the most beautiful words ever written came through Neale on page 4 of CWG 1 about discernment:
"Mine is always your Highest Thought, your Clearest Word, your Grandest Feeling. Anything else is from another source."
Then there is more on page 5:
"The Highest Thought is always that thought which contains joy. The Clearest Words are those words which contain truth. The Grandest Feeling is that feeling which you call love."
If what one's regard for whatever source does not approach this description in one's regard for it, one does well to seek another source to appreciate.
Thanks, Neale. Seldom has inspiration been so highly, clearly, grandly shared.
Namaste.
The word of God is alive and in us. In the awareness of this living word within, we might even read the letters on a cereal box and still hear the words of God. hehe
"I'm not aware of too many things, I know what I know if you know what I mean. Philosophy, is the talk on a cereal box. Religion, is a smile on a dog". Edie Brickell
The bible is a sealed book to the natural mind in man, and only in the identity of ONE LIFE in all can we ever begin to unveil it.
Too many Christian who believe that the Bible as the literal word or of God cherry pick the edicts that they believe in. They have expectations that Christians follow SOME passage from the Old Testament which is based on Jewish religious text and ignore entire lesons from the New Testamehnt which is what the Christian faith is supposed to be based on.
Yawn. More meaningless blather borne of lack of critical thinking.
Two bodies of scripture that preach irreconcilably contradictory doctrines cannot both be true.
The New Testament preaches Jesus Christ as the Son of God and redeemer of mankind. The Koran teaches Jesus Christ as a prophet and denies the atonement, an absolutely fundamental New Testament doctrine.
Both books cannot be true.
On the contrary, hootie1,
Those Christians do not cherry pick. They take the Bible as a whole and understand the role of the doctrines therein.
The New Testament is more Old Testament than you think. Jesus Christ wasn't all love and puppy dogs. He was repent and turn away from sin or suffer the consequences. A very old testament message.
In fact, he taught a number of moral commandments stricter than the OT. The OT forbad adultery. Christ forbids lust.
The folks who are doing the cherry picking are people like the author of this blog who want to see Jesus as some wise sage singing "all you need is love," instead of the Son of God telling mankind to repent from its sins. Sins that people like the author also like to cherry pick, focusing on ones like don't hate, and ignoring ones like don't fornicate.
Yes, The oracles of God occurs just three times in the Bible. Paul is emphasizing the great privilege and responsibility that was committed to the Jews when God gave His "oracles" to them, a word implying "divinely inspired utterances."> (The Common wealth of Isreal.) >What is it? Not the Ten Commanants? Steven althought called them Lively oracles. Paul said when the commandment came sin revived and I died. (When the Law was given at Mount Sinai we died also.
At Mount Sinai 3000 fell but at the Pentecost 3000 lived. So the law is aganst us it brings death, but the Oracles in Hebrews 6 brings life to the teachers and the hearers. See Romans 7:8-10
Romans 7:8-10 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. (Got it )9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. (Got it?,) 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Then the author of Hebrews rebuked those Hebrew Christians who had still not learned the very "first principles of the oracles of God," despite having been professing Christians for a long time (Hebrews 5:12). Finally, the apostle Peter urged his readers: "If any man speak, (Or write?) let him speak as the oracles of God" (1Peter 4:11.) That is, anyone who presumes to speak for the Lord must "Preach the word" (II Timothy 4:2). It is not our words.
I just wanted to add a quick comment about something I took away from a class I took in my first quarter, freshman year (1976) at DePaul University. It was called, "Religious Beliefs of Mankind" and taught me about the main religions of the world. Towards the end of the course I came up with what I called "The Atheist Paradox". It goes like this; through a series of events, an atheist has come to understand and accept that there is a larger power outside of him/her and is now willing to accept the notion of God into their life. This person then embarks on a quest to find a religion to join. When this person goes to a Christian church, the priest/pastor says to follow the ways of Jesus as it is the only way. When going to a Jewish synagogue, the rabbi says the same thing, that the Jewish way is the best path to God. Eventually this person ends up more confused than when he/she started because each and every religion said their way was The Way.
I've been a fan of Neale's writings since they were first published and have come to understand that God appears to you in the way you require it (not need it there is nothing that you need making it an illusion). This inevitably means that God appears to you at first in the way that's the closed to your culture/upbringing. As the world has expanded over the years with the internet now making cultural information globally available, we now have a myriad of choices and can even combine them if we so choose. These are exciting times for it allows the infinite experience of God to be more available that ever before. Rejoice in that!
God speaks, as God has always spoken. To assume God spoke to only one people, at one point in history, is to misunderstand the Greatness of God.
Discernment is not 'cherry picking'. If you see God as less than perfect, you are missing out. There is no wrath of God.
NDW: "And so, at its very beginning (indeed, by its very title) Conversations with God presents a challenge, upsets the apple cart, turns most present-day theology on its ear. Yet, interestingly, few people seem to have minded; few who have read CwG seem to have any quarrel with the possibility, at least, that God has revealed Himself once more through the written word."
Neale (or is it Donald?),
(1) There is nothing new about your work. Every decade or so some "guru" emerges -- a creation of the book publishing industry -- to present the wine of the old gnosticism in new bottles. If it hadn't been you, Mr. Walsch, it would have been someone else.
(2) If "few who have read CwG seem to have any quarrel" with the notion that your work represents Divine revelation ... that's because no serious theologian takes your work seriously. Why should they?
Actually, Reganite, you couldn't be further from the truth. But that is ok. It is your belief. You are loved all-the-same. There are many wonderful works out there. Not just CwG. Wait till my "creation of the book publishing industry" comes out. You and all the "serious theologian's" out there might need some Advil. Peace!
Michael, I absolutely love you.
I believe that absolute truth exists.
Like as an example, light exists and its behavior is understood and we know how to use it for many purposes from optical systems to high power lasers. To have an alternate truth about light would have lead to failure in its use and the invention of the laser would not have occurred. We will not and have never derived success driven by false and flawed concepts. This is the universe God made and science has only given us a glimpse, but science proves that the universe is ordered and there is absolute truth! So in the same regard there can only be one truth about God and who he is, and the belief cannot be made up of everyone's conflicting concepts and beliefs. If the laws of the universe were truly this way complete chaos would results and existence would not be!
In the same regard God exists and is one individual, not what ever or who ever you wish to make him. That is the puzzle of faith, everyone must seek the real God on his own but few truly find him! God cannot be all the faiths put together conveniently shaped in my preference of a God, that would be light combining all the past and present scientific theories on light and then go building a laser beam. Be careful when you hit the switch because you might kill yourself!
Your theory is like this.
I would suggest praying more for God to reveal himself in his one and only true form.
Take care
"Do you believe the bible is the inspired word of God?" Dana, at Yahoo.com
Neale "Yes, I do. The entire Bible, including the Old Testament"
Neale does not believe anything the Bible says.Want proof?
Neale "For the longest time we have had a false notion of our identity, imagining ourselves to be the offspring, or creations, of a Divine Creator..."1
God: "And God said, Let us make man in our image..." (Gen 1:26) "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them.."(Ex 20:11)
Neale:"...who has separated ourselves from Him (or Her, or It) and set up conditions upon which we may return. We have told ourselves and our children and our children's children that unless we meet these specific conditions, we cannot return to our Creator, but must forever be separated from Him (or Her, or It)."1
God:"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God..."(Isaiah 59:2)
Do you want to came back to God? It's not hard.God made it real easy.
Jesus said unto her," I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (John11:25-26)
Apparently,Neale does not believe the Bible.
Neale calls God "Him (or Her, or It)." He claims to talk to God,but he can't even tell you who or what God is.Of course, Neale claims that you (we) are God.2 How does he know? If this is true,why do you need Neale? If this is true,is Neale talking to himself? If not,who or what is this God he is talking about?
Leviathan
1.http://www.cwg.org/bulletins/bulletin_284.html
2.http://spiritlibrary.com/conversations-with-god/the-pinnacle-questions
To Leviathan
The way I understood it, whether you listen to Neale and read his books, or if you read the Bible, you'll still be going to heaven. It doesn't matter (or so I believe) that they are two contradictions, because it's all about finding the truth in yourself. If you believe and follow the Bible, you'll go to heaven, if you believe and follow Neale's words, you'll go to heaven, and even if you have no beliefs or texts to rely on, you can't avoid going to heaven.
Also, we don't need Neale, because I think that if you really wanted to, you could speak to God yourself. However, to me, it seems like the contents of his books make a lot of sense. I don't think I believe in God or anything 'supernatural', but I like Neale's books because they are logical. To me it doesn't matter if he is speaking to himself, and making it all up, or if he got it all from some higher, spiritual being. Because in the end, they're all wise, comforting words.
Thank you ~
About the double post:
I was having technical difficulties.I did not know it posted the first time.
To John
" It doesn't matter (or so I believe) that they are two contradictions..."
How do you know it does not matter? Would you say the same thing if contradictions came up in other parts of your life? Health,financial,legal,or business?It does not bother you that he lies?
"...because it's all about finding the truth in yourself"
Who says you can find truth in yourself? How do you know that truth is in you?
"if you believe and follow Neale's words, you'll go to heaven, and even if you have no beliefs or texts to rely on, you can't avoid going to heaven"
How do you know?
" I don't think I believe in God or anything 'supernatural', but I like Neale's books because they are logical. "
Then why read his books? Logical? Based on what? There is nothing that I've read on Neale's website that would be logical.
"To me it doesn't matter if he is speaking to himself, and making it all up, or if he got it all from some higher, spiritual being. Because in the end, they're all wise, comforting words"
So it does not matter that Neale is lying to you? How can a lie be wise and comforting? Wouldn't you want to know for sure if he is telling you the truth or not?
Leviathan
to Leviathan:
how do you KNOW that neale is lying? because you have read somewhere
some other "truth?" like he said do you know how many so called "truths" are out there in so called "holy" scripture books?? YOu say how do you know you can find the truth in yourself? Well how do you know that whatever truth YOUVE Found and decided is true for you is THE TRUTH either? do you KNOW ABSOLUTELY??? if so, how do you know absolutely do you have PROOF beyond the fact that its written? And WHO decided these "truths" were holy? Men did. and Men edited it and decided what was the word of god and what
wasnt.. you think the information in the bible was ALL THAT WAS written about Jesus.. no one else scribbled anything down??? what about the women?? well either they werent allowed to write or their info was not put in it. The Men that put together all the books in the bible lived A LONG TIME AGO and they DIDNT even UNDERSTAND The workings of mother nature like we do now. science was non existence. Floods were to "clear out the evil people" so they THOUGHT> now we know floods are mother natures way of balancing herself out. Same with Volcanos if they dont erupt one big eruption would happen.. they are an escape valve. SO all floods according to the bible like down
in Louisiana is god clearing out the evil? is that what YOU THINK??.. And back then lets see, lets pick something out of the bible since you were using the bible as the "word of god:" Deuteronomy 22 has a lot of interesting things in it that if we were to continue today, people would still be stoning and putting everyone to death for every little thing.
Ex: passage 18: if an man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen to his father or mother they shall have him apprehended and brought to the elders of his home city.. where they shall say, this son of ours is stubborn and unruly etc.. Then all of his fellow citizens shall stone him to death. Thus shall you purge the evil from your
midst and all Israel on hearing of it shall fear. this they say is the word of god!
and this is only ONE EXAMPLE there are some things in there if you look that thank god are NOT appropriate for todays world. We have
become much more loving thanks to examples like Christ and Budda.
The Old Testament no longer fits this world. that is why people argue over bits and pieces of it.. no one agrees on the whole thing anymore
there is too much in there that if we followed it, we would never grow.
we'd still have slaves!! have you really read the bible... I have.
Okay more about the contradiction thing. Why do you think there is
only one way to go to heaven? One way to have good health? there are 10 different things that can cause a headache. the cure can be
10 different things. Finances lets see there are alot of different ways to invest money which way is THE RIGHT WAY THE ONLY WAY?? isnt investing in realestate and saving money CONTRADICTORY?? Last I looked if you want to go to Arizona say, you can fly take a train a bus
or walk.. either way you get to your destination... couldnt it be
that way with god too?? Couldnt god be soooo big and love us sooo much he made it easy to see him in the afterlife?
It is apparent to me you have only been on Neales website and have
not read the books in their entirety or you wouldnt be making the
comments you are.
By the way I understand the Absolute truth thing about light but you cannot compare that to a multi dimensional being like God. Light is a
"Thing" in a way, a physical thing with physical properties that can be measured, the way it, the speed it travels etc... You can look at a light bulb and say there is light,.. can you look at something and say there is god?? actually i could because i believe god is everywhere...
but you do not think that. and thats okay. I am simply showing you
you cannot compare the two.
God is not something you can compare and look at properties of...
All we have are the writings. and it is up to us to believe what
writing is the right writing and how do you do that? i think you have chosen the bible right? okay, well why that writing?? because it feels right?? because it makes the most sense to you?? because your mom and dad said it was right? well you could say that about someone who believes in the Koran or anything else as the inpired word of god
you see you decide your truth!!! My sister in law thinks that unless
youre "baptist" faith and born again, you are going to hell. and if
you ask her its absolute truth. for her yes, for me and everyone else
who isnt baptist,, no our truth is different ... do you see??
we create our own reality and our own truth and choose whatever
we THINK serves us. Many times its the EGO that wants to feel
it is better than the rest, knows the one way, and with that the spirit which beats your heart and my heart what we have in common, our oneness and same ness disappears and that is the cause
of our planets unrest.
Bless us all with the growing of our
consciousness and what serves us best
according to what the world says they
want to achieve.
Ria
To Ria
"How do you KNOW that neale is lying?"
From what Neale said.Go back and read the quotes from Neale.
"...like he said do you know how many so called "truths" are out there.."
That should tell you somebody is lying.
"Well how do you know that whatever truth YOUVE Found and decided is true for you is THE TRUTH"
I don't decide truth.God is the one that says what truth is.Jesus said you can't find truth within.
And he(Jesus) said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. (Mark 7:20-23)
Absolute truth is independent of my thoughts,actions.opinions,and feelings.It will be true no matter what I believe.
Ex:Some people believed the earth was flat,did it change for them? No!!! Truth is not going to change just because you don't believe it.
Why do I believe the Bible is true?
1.Science 2.Prophecy 3.History 4.Logic Those are just some of the reasons I believe the Bible is true.
If absolute truth exist in our world,then it has to exist in religion.
What does Neale claim? To be God!! Based on what? He says so. Can he PROVE he is God? Do you believe he is God? If so,why?
"you think the information in the bible was ALL THAT WAS written about Jesus"
All that is reliable.
Would you want somebody to write about you without knowing you? Which one would be accurate? One writing by a friend,or one writing 200 years after you are dead?
"SO all floods according to the bible like down in Louisiana is god clearing out the evil?"
Where did you get this?
It starts in Deuteronomy 21:18 not 22:18. That is how I find out if something is true,I check it.
All of creation,including man,belongs to God.He is the one that makes the laws and rules.If you don't like it,what can you do?
What about all the pagans killing Christians for not bowing to there idols? Where was all that "all paths lead to God" bologna? Where was the love? Apparently,they followed your theology:
"we create our own reality and our own truth and choose whatever we THINK serves us." Hitler done the same thing.
"Why do you think there is only one way to go to heaven?"
One God would make one way to Himself.Is God the author of confusion?
Why do you think there are many ways?
Do all paths lead to god? How would you know? What would they be? What god will these paths lead to?
"Okay more about the contradiction thing.Finances lets see there are alot of different ways to invest money which way is THE RIGHT WAY THE ONLY WAY??"
You did not understand.
Ex:If the bank told you that you have $5,000 in your account one month, and the next month they told you it was a $1,000,would that bother you? Would you do anything about it? Plus,you can PROVE that the bank made a mistake,what would you do?
What if the bank said,"we create our own reality and our own truth and choose whatever we THINK serves us." What would think?
"It is apparent to me you have only been on Neales website and have not read the books in their entirety or you wouldnt be making the comments you are."
I only quoted what Neale said.Does he change his mind in his books? If he does,he is a very unstable man.
I did not say anything about light.That comes from the post by Patrick.
"We have become much more loving thanks to examples like Christ..."
Did you know that Jesus believed the O.T. was the Word of God?
"All we have are the writings. and it is up to us to believe whatwriting is the right writing and how do you do that?"
You test it.
Do you believe everything Neale says? Do you believe he is God? Do you believe you are God? Do you believe him because he can PROVE what he says,or do you believe it because Neale said so and you like it?
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."(1 John 4:1 )
"My sister in law thinks that unless youre "baptist" faith and born again, you are going to hell."
She is right about being born again.How do you become born again? Faith in Jesus Christ.She is wrong about "unless youre "baptist" faith."
Why should I trust Neale?
Leviathan
i have read most of the comments on here and I see that there is a little frustration about the truth of Neale and what he says. God is boundless and the abundant truth that has shown even great mean of history truth but they did not believe. he showed Moses through a burning bush and he still refused to believe and was fearful of what would happen. Jonah and the whale where he was fearful of the truth and Gideon where he must have proof of the truth. It is only human for us to look in ourselves and find our own fear that makes us believe what we believe. It is knowing God that we understand the fear of an everlasting life without him and his love. And that my friends is truth. The situation at hand is also knowing how to reach a being that is perfect and without sin. A being that even was seperated from his own son because he was of sin.....a being that has given a part of his own heart or son to us for the forgiveness of our sins. I am not a historian or a bible scholar nor am I studying to be either. But I do understand what Neale is doing by leading others and myself to a more conscious dialogue of my Father, my friend, my brother, my mother ,etc.,myself and the truth or image of the life we have been given. There is only one hell and that is the loss or the choice of the seperation of God whether that be on earth or everlasting is our choice that he has given us. The tools that he as given us to understand his love is faith, giving, love,and mercy. Love is God and God is love. Faith is knowing that God is always ther for us. God gave us his only son to know that he is willing to give us everything. and Mercy is knowing we don't deserve it but even his son is willing to be the path for us to follow. What an example. Our hell is not accepting this and we ask ourselves what if I don't believe God's son is the the way or even the only way. Let me ask you something...very quickly. Without reading all of his wonderful books which I will make an effort because I believe he is on to something but...What do you feel? Honestly how do you feel about this idea of one man being your only way to the father..Was it meant to be like this? In all other writings no other messenger has ever said that he is only way to father or that they were the Son of God. They were prophets but never claimed such or more of God. I belive that Jesus is the Son of God. Whether or not you will be condemed by God for not coming through him is not my ruling or judgement call but I will say that I would see no reason to proclaim for he too showed us love and sacrifice for his dialogue with God. If Jesus had been around in this time do you think he would have gotten 1.5 million dollars for his conversation with God. Of course and probably used it the same way right....who knows but I can tell you that they ended up crucifing someone who believed and lived a life of love and compassion.When we reach the point of Jesus and his teachings maybe we too can become a prophet but until then why not use him as a passage of hope and faith for he too is a tool given to us by God if not given of God. The bible has many translation that may or may have not been changed by the government at different times. Some believe it to be only a fairy tale and others believe in their own book. Maybe I believe what my parents told me .....but I do have my own faith in God and Jesus is my savior for allowing me to come in the prescence of God and the Holy Spirit comforts me when I have doubt. For someone else in a different culture it is our job to be fisher's of men. To seek and find this lost souls that are reading into false prophets, for it is not in being good that allows us into heaven , for who decides what is good? but for the good of God and his love that allows us the mercy. In a somewhat shallow form but in depth of the human soul we must find our own path just remember God is not the only one speaking to us everyday throught the dialogue of man. Let us not forget who the greatest deceiver of all time is...he too knows everword of the Bible more so than most christians. btw Neale you hit it right on the mark of telling the truth and letting your own followers know what the truth is.....has anyone read the book of Mormon and seen what you are given at the end or in Heaven....I understand God speaking to us in real time and also letting us know his truths here and now but I find that this religion might be a cult. I am not happy to feel this way or even pleased by this because they teach very similiar bliefs of my own and this cause some concern because i have friends in this following I just hope and pray God with have his words broken through the golden doors they have locked from their own followers.....which reminds me of way Jc was sent in the first place to take away the the curtain that seperates us from our father, mother, lover, friend, brother, daughter,leader,king, our holy God , to bridge the gap that made has made through our own sin and demise. Thanks Neale I definatel would like to hear from you in any way or fashion. Best Regards to those seekers with a lamp unto our feet. Nick
I realize that people believe many different things. Some confess to not knowing what to believe. This I understand.
I don't understand the position of Neale however. He claims to believe that the writings of mutually exclusive texts are all "true".
The Hindu belief system acknowledges many "gods". The Jewish belief system says there is only "One God". Neale says they are both correct. Hm-mm?
Johnny says "2+2=4". Sarah says "2+2= -18". They both can't be right, but neither may be crazy. The person that believes Johnny and Sarah are both right is the one that is crazy.
It reminds me of the politician that is asked where they stand on a particular issue. The politician responds, "Some of my friends are for it. Some of my friends are against it. As for me, I stand with my friends."
It is fine to say that you don't know what you believe. It is politically correct to take no position on what you believe. But it is intellectually questionable to say you believe mutually exclusive statements.
From a biblical perspective, the author of Hebrews claimed that God in fact did speak at different times in different ways.
Hebrews 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, (NKJV)
The author of Hebrews did not claim however that contradictory belief systems came from the same Mind.
Intellectual coherency does not allow such a position.
07.14.08
If someone has the courage
to draw out his dream from the
bosom of his soul and fight for
it’s fulfillment,there is one test
he has to overcome, that is -
Love.
Paulo Coelho
Dear Mr. Walsch!
Soon it will be five years, since the day I first held in my hands the Russian edition of “Conversations with God”. My life has been changed radically since then. Today, when I am familiar with all of your books, I can say only one thing: thank you for this great gift to the humanity.
I can’t say exactly which one of those books had the most impact on me. The first “Conversations” gave answers to many questions, that I have been searching for, throughout my entire life ( I am already in my fifties ), questions about hell, immaculate conception, punishment , revenge etc. There is no waste word in them .
Reading “Moments of Grace” I, myself , experienced something, that I can bravely call a “moment of grace”, but when I read “Home with God”, I understood how deeply I am loved, loved by Universe. Being loved is a very important thing, isn’t it? I sincerely thank you for that unforgettable experience. In my opinion there is only one title to all of your books - “Bible for today”. During these five years I told a lot of people about you and your books. To some of them I even rendered your books ,because I wanted the people, who were close to me, to have a chance to join your Revelations, to get to know your (and now mine too) God, to see the true colors of this world with eyes wide open and to understand the concept and importance of our Oneness.
Yet my most sacred wish still lives only in my mind, because I can’t find a way to accomplish it. That is - to translate your books and make them available to my people, to Armenians.
And you know what is interesting? From the moment I had the idea of translating your books into Armenian, all my business deals went down hills. I was not making enough money from my day job (I immigrated to US without any language skills and was making a living as a cab driver). I changed specialty after specialty, but the results were the same. Now I am taking classes to obtain a new profession. Soon I will graduate. Everybody guarantees job placement and a steady income. But …
Today I have a very strong suspicion, that all my business related affairs were a fiasco, just because I am not doing, what I suppose to do. Maybe my feelings were right, and all my losses is just God’s way to keep me closer to the idea of translating your books.
But there are so many obstacles. Obviously, I am limited in so many ways, to generate funds for that purpose , and most importantly, I have to provide for my family at the same time. I came up with an idea, maybe a crazy one, I don’t know, but I would like to share it with you , anyways.
As I understood, language is one of the key moments in your program “Give me 1000 men, and we will change the world”. Their is a lot of information about you and your books on the internet, but for the people with different ethnic backgrounds would have been much more interesting to know , what is exactly going on in the pages of your websites. For example a simple column in one of your sites, that will say “Languages” would make a huge difference. Anyone could click on it and choose the suitable language.
Dear Mr. Walsch! Would you be interested in something like that? Or maybe it is already done, and I just couldn’t find it. To be more specific, I am talking about Armenian language. If there was “ Armenian “ on the list of the languages, you could have introduced the concept of New God to a whole nation. I would be more than happy to be in your team and with your help and guidance organize a small group of people, to work on your new Armenian page. At the same time I could have a chance to accomplish my dream, I could translate your books into Armenian and you could publish them later on. I am hoping very much to get some kind of response from you. Thank you so much for taking the time to read my letter.
Respectfully, yours in God
Sam .
/Samvel Arakelyan/
Very briefly : logic, history, reason, science and archaeological data all point to the fact that there are major flaws in most belief systems and the premises upon which they were founded.
It's all about 'faith' in your viewpoint, and not concrete evidence. A believer need only have faith, rationality plays no part.
Peace to you all.
Cyrus Rumi
(http://cyrusrumi.blogspot.com/)
Cyrus,
That sounds good, until you ask what they have faith in. I may believe that eating Twinkies will get me into heaven, and hold to that belief devoutly, but if it is a lie, my belief profited me nothing.
And there is concrete evidence all around us: scientific, archaelogical, historical, astronomical, empirical. It's how you interpret the evidence that decides your viewpoint. And most people start off with previously-held presuppositions and biases that prohibits them from making an objective analysis.
A believer does have to have faith, but it matters on what you faith in. Believing sincerely in a lie will not make it become truth.
God bless,
Chief1989
Hi Neale,
It's rather perplexing to read your posting, listing religious scriptures. Why do you include Hindu scriptures with religious texts? Religion has never been associated with Hinduism as they are totally off tangent. If you had walked the talk, you would have realised the difference. Honestly, have you really delved into the Baghvad Gita or Mahabharat to even understand what you've said, leave alone believing it?
Neale has in effect succeeded in strikig a nice well-deserved blow at the very backbone of religious fanaticism which may be dated since times immemorial. This fanaticism is for real, and is the cause of all strife and violence in much of the world today, since its assertions are, like: Your scripture is wrong, mine is right; Your god is false, mine true. Thaddeus Tea says that Hinduism is not even religion and it has so many gods, whereas all the others ARE religions even though all but one of them are false since only one says 2 + 2 = 4, and the others say something else. Tea's argument leads one nowhere. Which is 'that' religion which says 2 + 2 = 4 = Every religion thinks and says, and preaches, that it ALONE says 2 + 2 = 4.
But as Neale says, all scriptures are word of God, and not just Christianity or Judaism, or .. . God appeared at different times in different regions and said a number of ESSENTIAL things which are essentially the same in all the religions: love, kindness, nonviolence, etc., on which the Ten Commandments, or other similar dicta were made. The tales, fables, and the utterances of prophet, Messiah, ... differ, and much of it is liable to be interpreted in the wisdom or unwisdom of the interpreter - producing light of truth or heat of violence, respectively.
Hinduism has one God as the apex, and any number of gods, for air, light, water,..., even trees, mountains, ... can be visualized as god by the believer. Wise men view God in a multiplicity of forms, and in incarnations at different times. This paradigm, which differentiates all the rest of the religions, does not have to be approved by believers in other religions for a seal of its being a religion. Hindu texts also aver, and also aver through God Himself, that God can be realized by man in the way he imagines, and yet there are a few definite forms of Him which have become the common norm for so that they can all direct spiritual contemplation in congregation, or even at the individual or family level. But yes, in one sense, Hinduism is no religion, given the same facts above (in this paragrahph). It won't insist on changing your name, even your nominal allegiance of faith, or your present practices and beliefs. It wants one just to realize that God is manifest in all His creations, animate and inanimate. High end science has at last come to realize these great pinnacles of achievement of human spiritual reflection only in Hinduism, in as much as it has inferred through its own methods of investigation based on counting and measuring, that there is a single universal consciousness of which each of us is a just speck, a divine spark.
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.