Crunchy Con

Honor in our time

Tuesday July 25, 2006

Here's an interview Christina Hoff Sommers did with James Bowman about his book "Honor: A History," to which I linked in the previous post. The first thing it reminded me of was how much more comfortable I am raising my sons in the South (well, insofar as Dallas is part of the south, which is a matter of debate, but on the matter of male-female relations, it's definitely more Southern than NYC) as opposed to New York City. One day, when Matthew was only three, Julie was on the playground in Brooklyn with him, and trying to teach him manners, asked him to step aside and let the little girl behind him climb up the slide ahead of him.

"Ladies first," Julie said. She got in return a sneer from the little girl's mother. Typical.

So many of the simple courtesies that made life so gracious and mannerly, even when I was growing up in the 1970s in small-town Louisiana, are now lost to us, or very soon will be. I hate it when small children call me by my first name. I hate it when adults encourage my children to call them by their first name. They can call them "Mrs. Smith" or, as Louisiana kids of my generation were taught (charmingly) to do, "Miss [First Name]," even if they're married. The point is to convey respect to elders. In my town when I was a child, if a kid ever spoke to an adult as if on equal terms, it was considered a shameful thing for that child, and in turn for his parents, who were presumed not to have raised him right. Practicing good manners was considered a matter of personal honor. So much of that seems gone now in our time of egalitarianism.

Anyway, Bowman's talking about something much more profound than mere courtesy, but courtesy, in traditional Southern culture, is inseparable from personal honor. Here's an excerpt from the Bowman interview, but you really should read the whole thing:

Christina Hoff Sommers: You show that the Western concept of honor has lost much force and is becoming obsolete. Can you tell us what you think is the most serious consequence of this ongoing diminishment?

James Bowman: The most serious? That would have to be in the corresponding diminishment of our will to live as a society and a culture. Honor is among other things an assertion of collective identity. We are this and we are not that. We are American and not Islamicist. When we are attacked, it is a counter-assertion by someone else that he is that and not this. He is Islamicist and not American. Honor is the name that used to be given to the will to assert the one identity over the other. If you attack me because I am American, honor dictates that I must counterattack and defeat you because you are Islamicist—since you have shown me that being an Islamicist means being an enemy of America. But nowadays we find something disreputable about this kind of assertion and counter-assertion of identity. It is fundamentally at odds with the multiculturalist orthodoxy of the last 30 years. What we ought to have learned from the terror attacks of September 11th and subsequent events is that multiculturalism has sapped our will to fight back and thus to survive. If American patriotism has to be expressed at the expense of non-Americans, even non-Americans who want to kill us simply for being Americans, we are ashamed to express it.
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Comments
Franklin Evans
July 26, 2006 4:01 PM
http://madfedor.blogspot.com/

Type in haste, repent in leisure.

I really should have typed above:

"The mistake you make>

Franklin Evans
July 26, 2006 4:03 PM
http://madfedor.blogspot.com/

And now I seem to again be html-tag challenged. Sigh, trying again:

I really should have typed above:

"The mistake you make is forgetting or ignoring that it is a two-way street...">

Hunk Hondo
July 26, 2006 4:50 PM

I think New York gets a bum rap when it comes to courtesy. When I visited for a few days a couple of years ago the people were just fantastic. While trying to hail a cab (in Brooklyn Heights, Rod!)I was having trouble getting one. Seeing my plight, a total stranger came up to me and said, "These cabs are coming off the bridge, so they already have their fares. Try going over to Clinton Street; the cabs there will be empty and looking for fares." And so it proved. I'm proud to be a Southerner, but frankly I can't imagine that happening in Atlanta or Nashville. (Jackson, maybe.)>

Franklin Evans
July 26, 2006 5:30 PM
http://madfedor.blogspot.com/

I've been around. I've lived in the Midwest and NYC as well as Philly, and spent considerable time south of the Mason-Dixon Line. My brother lives in Raleigh. My father lived in Kingman, AZ for many years. I speak to alot of people who often are willing to describe their experiences.

I think that every place has good people who maintain a strong ethic for courtesy. I think they are a vanishing breed, but they remain not that hard to find (yet).

I also think, being a student of language and word usage, that while courtesy might try to be a universal language, it has too many variations. The gruff demeanor of a NYC (or Philly) merchant or street vendor is very much at odds with the easy welcome in a southern restaurant or diner, but they both have the same strong ethic of courtesy. The mode of expression differs, is all.

The best commentary on all this, that I've seen or read, is the Monty Python's Flying Circus skit of the dirty fork in the restaurant.>

TTT
July 28, 2006 4:45 PM

Whenever I read conservatives moaning about how much nicer people were back in the day, I think of Hannibal Lecter's prissy manners and fancy handwriting.

Just how courteous were past generations when they forced blacks to sit in the back of the bus? Did the driver address Rosa Parks as "ma'am"? Crunchy, when you were growing up in small-town Louisiana in the 1970s were the town's Jews called "sir"? How about the gays, assuming they dared let themselves out?

Our culture today is better than it has ever been. The moral values of mainstream society are too.>

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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