Proportionality is madness

You slap me...and I'll turn the other cheek.

With regard to the Arab/Muslim world, this is probably the most knee-slappingly hilarious thing I've read in a long time. The day that the Arabs/Muslims "turn the other cheek", then we can worry about this; as it is now, that's within the realm of science fiction.

If the world really "turns with empathy and support" to people who are committed to the destruction of Israel and who resort to missiles and suicide bombers, then the world can go perform an anatomically impossible act on itself.

I agree with Richard Cohen. Israel should punch out the lights of anyone who attacks it. And if that leads to Israel's nuking of Lebananon, Syria, Iran, and the rest of the Arab world [though Iran is not part of the Arab world, but I digress], then so much the better.>

"After the Holocaust, after 1,000 years of mayhem and murder, the only proportionality that counts is zero for zero. If Israel's enemies want that, they can have it in a moment."

This is exactly right. What's disproportionate in this whole set of conflicts is that if the various Arab/Islamic countries and groups around Israel were to decide that they no longer were going to attack it, they would have nothing to fear from the Israelis. Israel is not going to invade Syria in order to conquer Damascus or Egypt to take Cairo. Israel's enemies want to destroy it; Israel wants not to be destroyed, not to destroy its neighbors.>

I agree that "turning the other cheek" to terrorists is poor statecraft.

Still, MNW's other point was correct: "Where's the line? Why don't you just advocate that Israel nuke Lebanon, Syria, Iran, and the rest of the Arab world?"

Cohen fails to mention any actual details about Israel's action, so his point, while useful in theory, can't be taken automatically to apply to the current situation.>

David J. White,

Read much?>

Rod: "the moment we start to fight back, we become evil?"

As I pointed out above, the two problems with Cohen's argument are (1) this can be used to justify _anything_ done to advance Israel's security, no matter how unproductive or immoral, and (2) because Cohen fails to mention any actual details about Israel's action, his point, while useful in theory, can't be taken automatically to apply to the current situation.

Instead, you chose to address the argument, which not a single person on the thread has defended, that Jesus' teachings apply to this situation.

Rod: "This is a bizarre moral inversion, and unfortunately typical of the left"

Sadly typical of the right is a tendency to ignore good arguments and target blasts of rage at lesser arguments that are advanced by very very few. (Think, for example, of the celebrity achieved by third-rate academic Ward Churchill, an anti-hero to the right, justly ignored by everyone else).>

Hezbollah isn't the neighbor, but the Lebanese government hasn't done anything about Hezbollah. When Israel left Lebanon, Lebanon agreed to disarm Hezbollah. Hezbollah has become stronger. What does Lebanon want to do about it? They want Israel to cease-fire and negotiate for a prisoner exchange with Hezbollah.

We are responsible for what our citizens do within our borders. What would Canada do if a group from Michigan started firing rockets into Canadian towns and the US government wasn't willing to disarm them or prosecute them?

Canadians are really nice people. I bet that would push the limits of their patience.

It's really similar to the situation that we had in Afghanistan. The USA gave the Taliban more time to take care of the problem and turn Bin Laden over than Israel seemed to give Lebanon. Really, that's the only criticism that I can direct at Israel, but it's likely that the leaders of Israel and Lebanon talked before the strikes.

Deterrence doesn't seem to work with terrorist networks because they don't seem to care about civilian populations. The goal comes first(destroy Israel or destroy the west) and civilians come second.>

As for Europe, who today cries for the Greeks of Anatolia or the Germans of Bohemia?

Well, I carry no brief for Hezbollah or Hamas or their ilk, but I do cry for the Greeks of Anatolia. They got the shaft from the barbaric Turks.

I would also like to point out that what Israel is doing is just like what America did in Afghanistan. Did the Taliban bomb us? No, al-Quaida did. But the Taliban was a terrorist state, which both actively supported al-Quaida and turned a blind eye to them. This seems to be the case with Lebanon.

Poor analogy. The Taliban actively protected, sponsored, and was essentially interwined with Al Qaeda. Lebananon is a victim of Hezbollah, an unfortunate leftover from the days of Syrian control. The Lebanese have been able to toss the Syrians out, but they aren't strong enough to disarm/destroy Hezbollah, though most would like to.>

The Lebanese have been able to toss the Syrians out, but they aren't strong enough to disarm/destroy Hezbollah, though most would like to.

Umm, not really. The Syrians left, not because the Lebanese threw them out, but because their presence was making them look really bad and they didn't want sanctions slapped on them. Big difference there. Unfortunately, with Hezbollah, you can't use sanctions.

By the way...good luck with that lousy US peace plan...in finding any countries dumb enough to contribute troops to Lebanon. Last I heard though, the Egyptians and Turks were high up on the list...almost like a return to the 'good ole' days of the Ottomans and Mamelukes!>

god_is_in_the_tv, at which mosque do you worship?>

A Catholic who denies one of the pillars of Just War theory, funny.>

Honest question here:
Is "Proportionality" in reference to intentended goal or actual accomplishments? If the actual intentions of Hezbollah is the complete destruction of Israel, is it proportional for Israel to retaliate with the complete destruction of Hezbollah? If it is in reference accomplishments, does Israel keep a tally of its citizens killed by Hezbollah and then use that tally to allow them to kill that many Hezbollah militiants?>

Thanks for the clarification TM Lutas.>