I thought one of the most interesting things he said, though, was this:
Q: Do you have an explanation as to why Anglicans are prepared to let the Church split now over homosexuality, and not for example when a Bishop denied the Resurrection of Christ?
A: I am intrigued by that. On the one hand it says something about our own age, which is obsessed with sexuality - left and right. But I think there's something else. Christian often find it difficult to describe what distinguishes them. More and more they live like the people around them. Divorce is a sad case in point. For some people homosexuality is the last issue where you can draw a clear line. And then it is for many people a central issue of the authority of Scripture. I don't want to minimize that. Even about divorce there are certain things in the Bible that seem to give a bit of room for manoeuvre. It is harder to say that about homosexuality.
I think he's spot-on there. A friend of mine -- gay, orthodox Catholic, chaste -- does not favor gay marriage, but has observed to me before that the culture of divorce and general heterosexual free-range rutting has surely caused far more damage to society -- especially children -- than anything gays have done. Yet we don't see too many Christians willing to rush to the barricades to defend "traditional marriage" when it's under assault from straights in the name of sexual autonomy. His point is very well taken, not as a premiss from which to argue for gay marriage, but as an observation about hetero hypocrisy.
I mean, look, what the gay-rights movement is asking for flows naturally from the premises of the sexual revolution. If you are a "naturalist" about sex (versus a "sacralist" -- see previous post) and human nature, then you will want to see social and moral strictures relaxed so that individuals can choose to do what they like, within broad boundaries (i.e., no child abuse). If sex has no intrinsic meaning outside of the individual's experience, why not? And if you believe that, by what right do you tell gay couples that they should be treated in the law differently than straight couples?
I would suspect that Hugh Hefner is all for gay marriage. At least he's honest. The dishonest ones are straight people who think society should accomodate without judgment their multiple marriages, their abortions, their rutting, etc., but God forbid the gays should insist on being accomodated.

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"trying to discern morality, in the sense of what is best for us as humans"
Interesting phraseology. It implies, for the first time, that maybe I, as a gay person, ought to be treated as a human being.
My definition of morality is taken from the Bible. (Sorry, I'm a practising Christian.) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This is the SUM of the laws and the prohets.
When people say I should not be allowed to marry the person I love, they prove to me that this is how they would like to be treated. They cannot, will not put themselves in my shoes, let alone walk a mile in them.
How would you like it if there was an uprising against your right to marry the person you love?
How would you like your "marriage" put in quote marks? Mocked? Compared to beastiality, child-rape, necrophilia, cannablaism?
If you cannot see the HARM done in child-molestation, I feel sorry not only for you but for your children.
That you do not consider these comparisons hateful is sad. If they were said about YOU, I think the picture would change.>
I don't think that you are hateful. Misinformed, prejudiced, closed-minded in some regards ...
Please.
If that's your idea of not attacking me personally ... there is nothing left to say.>
C'mon, Victor, you haven't had the exact same opinions/critiques of me? Heck, I'll even lead with my chin: I'm at least as biased as the next person.
If I can't characterize you as closed-minded within the context of something -- which is exacly what I've done -- then no one can possibly disagree with you and not have you take it personally. If that's true, there is indeed nothing left to say.>
"Western Civilization has, even with its warts, so far been the culture in which humans have best achieved their potential."
Saying that Western Civilization is the best, and therefore the way we have always done things is right, is not necessarily true. Please explain how disenfranchising gay people and not allowing them to form legally protected families with the people they love has helped to advance Western Civilization.>
"And I'm too much the faux expert with the uninformed guesses."
You said it, Victor. Not us. You. And I couldn't agree more.
When you can see gay people as humans that don't deserve your scorn and contempt, then I might disagree.
Until then, yes, you ARE uninformed.>
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