War on the Middle Class

For this reason we have been discussing revising the restrictive covenants in our north of Dallas suburban neighborhood to charge owners who do not live in the neighborhood a significantly higher annual HOA fee, creating a disincentive to purchasing neighborhood homes as rental properties. Five years ago I would have found such a move disquieting, but after living next to a family who were evidently running some sort of business which involved turning the street into a parking lot, people going in and out of the home at all hours and, occasionally, the late night buffing of tricked out autos, I would welcome the change.>

The same thing happens here in Sydney Australia. They move into an area (Asians in this case) take over,nearly knock you over every time you have to go up the street (which you dread) and run illegal businesses. Many don't speak English properly. At work they are the main hassle, either can't speak English and/or want their own way/break the rules. Spare me. It is not where people come from, its the way they behave that matters and these people behave badly.>

Immigration always leads to conflict. Sometimes, we can learn from the conflict. I think it is realistic, however, to acknowledge that illegal immigration does add another layer to the chaos. Is immigration a positive thing? It's actually a compliment- I want to come to your country. However, it also comes with a responsibility to work toward assimilation (Not a total repudiation of one's culture, but a willingness to learn to function in a new environment).>

So Susan, please tell me what the correct response to this is? People move in to an already diverse and generally happy neighborhood. They are disrespectful of the norms. I guess the answer is to make noise until ordinances are enforced? Seriously, I think we need some actual suggestions from people who say 'racism' whenever these issues pop up. It's not racism all the time. And in the name of full disclosure, I say this as an hispanic person who no matter what, would not like my neighborhood filled with tons of parked cars on the streets and people coming and going all hours of the night.

JH>

Yeah, I would -- especially if these white people were in this country illegally. This is not about Hispanics neighbors; this is about people who are not being neighborly, and who might not even be in this country legally. And nobody in power willing to do anything about it.>

There are simply not enough immigrants, legal or otherwise, to substanciate a claim that they are causing a decline in middle class wages. It is called free trade. When you are competing against a $1, a Mexican making $10 an hour isn't causing you to be fired.>

"I think the real war is on the working class, who are being priced out of jobs by floods of illegal immigrants"

I am from a small city/large town where, every summer since I can remember, Mexicans have come to town to pick lettuce and onions on the muck farms. The out-of-work white people in town would never dream of laboring in the broiling hot sun for 12 hours a day hunched over picking vegetables. Most jobs that these illegals are doing are things that most Americans would rather be on Welfare than do.

Consider also this: America's rise as an economics power relied heavily on it's abundant agricultural production in South, which in turn relied on slave labor. When slavery became illegal, Italian and Irish immigrants worked farms for a pittance. When wage and labor laws came into effect to protect citizens from exploitation, farm owners started hiring illegals.

The reason why so many of us are able to be big fat prosperous Americans has always been based on exploitative labor. If you want to kick all the illegals out, please be prepared to pay 8 bucks for a head of lettuce.>

Actually, be prepared to pay $6 per pound for apples this year. Apple growers in the northwest are hurting badly for the loss of the migrant labor force. I seriously doubt the local citizens could be bothered before to fill those jobs, and they are proving that by not filling them now.

If that's what the labor market dictates, sure. I'd rather that they paid legal citizens better wages to fill those positions (and in return we get slightly more expensive apples) than import illegal labor who work for bare bones minimum wage.>

Thanks for clarifing Franklin and as always thanks for your thoughts. How do you like them apples? :)>

I thought the tax cuts were supposed to help the middle class and not make them so vulnerable that low-end workers would derail their progress?

Apparantly, it helped the wealthiest 2%, but not anyone else. Next time people in Dallas start talking about those "illegals," maybe Rod should ask them why the tax cuts Rod and the conservative elite supported have failed.>

IMHO, the Dallas Morning News headline for this article (New arrivals fuel income drop), and sadly, Rod's take on the article (War on the Middle Class!!! Wages in North Texas are declining!!!), are misleading.

The article says that the median household income fell, and attributes this to immigrants working at low wages. Remember from sixth grade that "median" means the value of the middle member of the set. So if a large number of people with low incomes move in, the median will necessarily fall -- even if everyone else's income stays the same (or even goes up, because the median person after the influx will be a different person than the one who was the median before).

The article itself at least makes this point. Gotta read a ways down into it, tho.

Call me a Pollyanna, but I'm happy to live in a place where productive people are moving in, and willing to work. Sure beats living in the place that productive people are leaving.>

If tax cuts were supposed to "help" the middle class, they are ineffective if a small increase in low-wage workers can destabilize that "help." IOW, was it really a "help" at all or just a gimmick?>

Susan, the tax cuts were very helpful for my family, too. Back to the topic, can't you concede that allowing millions of people to enter our country illegally is not a Good Thing? That maybe it's past time to get a handle on this, before the very real populist anger at feeling ignored and marginalized in one's own country shows up in some less benign forum than the internet? Maybe you don't see that anger in your circle, but I drive a bus, and I assure you that the blue collar people I work with have no desire to see the current wave of illegal immigration continue. (Most of them are Democrats, by the way.) And why the scare quotes around "illegal" in your earlier post? Aren't most of the current crop of Latino immigrants here contrary to our laws? Isn't that what "illegal" means? Funny, how you liberal folks are so very concerned about the rights of foreigners illegally in the country, but are so scornful and dismissive of your fellow citizens' concerns.>

"Call me a Pollyanna, but I'm happy to live in a place where productive people are moving in, and willing to work"

Yeah! I wonder how many natural-born Americans would be willing to walk hundreds of miles through a desert, risk getting raped or dying, and try to start a new life in a country where they knew no one and did not even speak the language, just to have a JOB!>

Susan,

Most estimates I've seen are that there are about 12 million people in our country illegally (or "undocumented, if you prefer). Yes, a large percentage of them speak Spanish. It is not necessarily racist to point out such an obvious fact.

As far as the impact on wages, I don't have precise numbers at my fingertips, but I suspect the losses in manufacturing jobs over the past few years are in the multiple thousands rather than millions. I believe we can all agree that these losses have affected the median wage in our country.

What's the big deal about acknowledging the impact on wages of millions of illegal immigrants?>