Here. We. Go. Again.

I hope nobody ever tells these people about where Dante placed the Prophet.>

Reacting to art and speech with cries of "This must be silenced!" gives more power to the person doing the talking. If we simply let it be said, it shows we're not afraid of what's being expressed. It usually is, in the case of the usual blasphemous art (I'm excluding satirical art here), as Alicia put it, infantile. And infantile sentiments from blowhards are hardly things I fear.>

Agree with the others that intentionally blasphemous art is infantile and artistically sterile.

But the point to remember is how this story highlights the ridiculous double standard. The Berlin opera authorities aren't concerned in the least about the sensitivities of Christians, Buddhists or pagans, each of whom has at least as much right to be offended by the show as Muslims do.

Their ONLY concern is about potential Muslim reaction. And like the many newspaper editors in Europe and the US that refused to reprint the Danish cartoons, the Berliners will no doubt profess "deep respect" for Islam, blah, blah, blah.

But the double standard reveals the truth: It's all about cowardice. No one cares about blasphemy, insensitivity, infantile "art" per se. The ONLY concern of the directors of the state opera house (as with the editors of major newspapers) is that their homes and offices not be firebombed by violent Muslim mobs.

Sometimes, to find the truth, you have to look very low.>

the Berliners will no doubt profess "deep respect" for Islam, blah, blah, blah

I'm sure very few Westerners at this point have a "deep respect" for Islam.

I am sure they have a well-developed terror of it.>

German state opera company has cancelled a performance

Dropping my personal viewpoint here, I must admit that from a strictly practical point of view, violence works . And to me that s the lesson here. Violence or the threat of it can silence popes, shut down offensive art, make people too afraid to be without a police state, and kill real debate. We cannot even stomach someone calling us racist or sexist, let alone face real bullets.

I think it s educational to reflect on the fact of how well the threat of violence works in our nanny state. We live in the land of mandatory seat belts and car seats, airbags, medicine for every pain, and cling to life and comfort like whipped dogs. America is populated by soccer moms so terrified of life they cannot figure out if they are more frightened to die or to continue to live.

I often wonder: is all this fear of violence and death in the West due to our lack of belief in God, our high levels of comfort, women having more say in politics, or simply a reflection of parents who have irrational fears for their children because they have so few and cannot lose even one? The baby-boomers coming of age and softening the culture? Maybe all of them.

Muslims have no such irrational fear of death. They seem sane by comparison. What has happened to the West from the days of the Greeks when death wasn t feared nearly as much as a pathetic life?

Bottom line: violence works against wimps. That s us. Expect a lot more of it.>

What we have here is just another flare-up in a struggle between two forces who hate the history of Western civilization--radical Islam and the radical left. Until the last few years they've been in truce against their common enemy, i.e. traditional Western (Christian) culture, just like Stalin & Hitler made common cause in the 1930s despite being fundamentally opposed to each other. Radical Islam has determined, as Hitler did, that it doesn't need to abide by the truce anymore, and now is the time to strike. We may decide, as the US did before, that we must intervene on behalf of the radical left (I suppose we should, although I doubt whether Europe is capable of being saved at this point), but we must not pretend this time that we're really on the same side. As this site has documented many, many times, "Western free-speech principles" are NOT held to be universal in the Europe of the radical left--they are systematically denied to those who believe in traditional Western (Christian) cultural values.>

bob, you're nuts. I'm not sure what the "Radical Left" is that you're talking about, but this leftist (primarily due to a belief in environmental protection and economic justice) thinks Islam is scary and should be opposed. I know an awful lot of leftists who agree. I don't think opposing involves starting wars that will inevitably kill thousands of innocents directy and more once the inevitable insurgency gets under way (although Iraq is even worse than I expected). I don't think opposing Islam is primarily a matter of making wars.

I think Europe needs to drastically reduce immigration from Islamic countries, and I think many (and increasing with every riot) Europeans agree. The problem sorta crept up on them. In the comboxes for one of Rod's posts today relating to Madeline Bunting a commenter notes that the comments following her appeasnik article (I've never liked Madeline Bunting) was full of derision for her argument. This is from the readership of one of Europe's leading liberal papers.

There are few if any leftists joining forces with Islam against Western Christian Culture. I happen to be a big fan of western culture - although I admit its not so much the Christianity than it is the Greek science and philosophy, Roman engineering, and all the brilliance of the Renaissance and Enlightenment that make me proud to be a westerner. I like an awful lot about Christianity too, especially that it let all that other stuff happen and even contributed to a lot of it once it realized stuff like believing the Earth circles the Sun is not against God...>

Alicia:

I see your point; the pope's quote from the Constantinople leader had some bad things to say about Muslim culture as well. But opinions aside, Muslim culture is certainly not impotent! If my memory serves, that great city fell in 1453.

Since Muhammad the history of Islam has have been one of steady, relentless pushing into new other areas with a combination of ruthless killing and/or immigration and then outbreeding. It's still going on right now. Call Muslims what you will, they are not weak or cowards or impotent. They don't just destroy like the Norse or Huns - they always create a whole new culture in place of the ones they take over.

I cannot dismiss them so easy. We may not like their culture. But it has a proven track record. If we look objectively at the situation, Islam is looking good, growing and confident, while the West is in decline, both in populations and in cultural unity and confidence. I'm not saying I like it. But facts are hard things.>

I like an awful lot about Christianity too, especially that it let all that other stuff happen and even contributed to a lot of it once it realized stuff like believing the Earth circles the Sun is not against God...

Um, paggle, Galileo Galilei was a devout Roman Catholic. Those bible-thumping Catholics produced the first culture in the history of the world to discover the Earth circles the Sun while all the others languished. The Gregorian calendar? Catholics again. First genetic discovery? Printing press? Catholic! Damn. Can't those guys just stick to their bible?

Galileo was, by today's standards, a very wacko conservative Catholic. And yet he argued for heliocentrism following Augustine (400 AD) who claimed even way back then not to take every biblical passage literally. Galileo looked to his Catholic roots for this insight.

Out of all the cultures of the world, Catholics are the only ones to create true science. The Greeks never could do it - they couldn't separate philosophy and religion from true observation. Their pagan understanding of reason and faith just never could do it for them.

Catholics didn't just "let it happen". Rather, being the only culture around that argued for faith and reason, they made it happen.>

I agree with much of what's been said. We need to stand up to Islam, no matter what the cost. Islam is on the march, taking Somalia, and now Thailand from the looks of it. They smell that everybody is afraid of them, and they're taking advantage of the fear. Imagine Islam leaders asking the Pope to convert; it would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that they're SERIOUS!>

Most people and newspapers in Germany criticize the cancellation of this Mozart opera, incl. representatives Muslim organization.

It seems that the cancellation will be revoked and this opera will be shown after all. What a great and shrewd publicity stunt the opera house made by first announcing the cancellation. Usually hardly anybody would be interested in that opera, but now it is the talk of the town.

I think I am in a very small minority who approved of the cancellation. That opera is an insult to other religions (since it shows the severed heads of Jesus and Buddha as well) and to Mozart, the composer, himself.

What benefit would we get if we had this opera? It seems the only reason to defend this stupid opera is to avoid giving the impression of appeasement to the Islamofascists. That's not enough for me.

I think this opera would only strengthen Islamofasicsm since it would help their propaganda. To win the war on terrorism, we need to have moderate Muslims on our side, so that they don't support the terrorists, but give us information about them. And we want the moderate Muslims to win over their autocratic governments and fundamentalist groups in the Arab world. This opera, however, alienates the moderate Muslims and helps the fundamentalists.


Let's not forget that theater plays critical of Christians and Israel also get canceled. Earlier this year:
"A New York theatre company has put off plans to stage a play about an American activist killed by an Israeli bulldozer in Gaza because of the current "political climate" - a decision the play's British director, Alan Rickman, denounced as "censorship"."
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/theatre-gets-stagefright-over-play-on-israeli-death-of-activist/2006/02/28/1141095740986.html

And then there is this from Oct 23, 1998: "Last May, William Donohue, the ever-vigilant president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, raised quite a ruckus about the fact that Corpus Christi, Terrence McNally's play-in-progress, featured a gay, Christ-like protagonist who has sex, off-stage, with his male disciples. Donohue, who has a gift for strained analogies that rivals McNally's own, has called the play "hate speech," "bigotry," and of course "blasphemy." He has argued that a similar depiction of a black or Jewish religious figure would be roundly condemned. Only Catholics and their beliefs, Donohue insists, are held up to such ridicule."
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1252/is_n18_v125/ai_21273530

Yeah, yeah, this only happens to Catholics.... Right! And some Jews say these kind of attacks only happen to Jews. And some Muslims say those things only happen to Muslims.

"On May 23, 1998, the New York Times announced that the Manhattan Theatre Club would be canceling its scheduled production of playwright Terrence McNally's newest play, Corpus Christi, due to bomb and death threats made against the theatre, its personnel, and the playwright. The Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights disavowed responsibility for the threats but did publicly applaud the decision, calling the play "blasphemous." A week later, after counter-demonstrations by a roster of well-known contemporary playwrights, the play was reinstated at MTC. Although the Catholic League's president had not read the play, reports claiming that it depicted a gay Jesus-like figure who has sex with his apostles was enough to ignite a series of events that captured the attention of New Yorkers, theatre artists and others, perhaps to a greater extent than McNally's play itself. On opening night, two separate demonstrations took place concurrently on opposite ends of the block outside the theater."
http://muse.jhu.edu/cgi-bin/access.cgi?uri=/journals/theatre_journal/v051/51.2pr_mcnally.html

So, since there have been death threats and bomb threats directed a play challenging Christianity, it could very well be that the threats against the "Idomeneo" opera are not only coming from Muslims, but from Christians, who don't like to see the severed head of Jesus...

Greetings from Berlin,
My blog: The Atlantic Review, A press digest on transatlantic affairs edited by three German Fulbright Alumni>

Catholics didn't just "let it happen". Rather, being the only culture around that argued for faith and reason,

Say what??!!>

paggle: If you don't think the radical left & radical Islam have made common cause, you need to start paying attention. Check out any pictures from an ANSWER rally (Stalinists + Islamists = lots and lots of fun!) from the past 5 years.

And if you think that Christianity can be separated from "the brilliance of the Renaissance and Enlightenment" as if they had nothing to do with each other then you really, really need to read up on your history.>

Alicia says: I simply don't buy your interpretation of how Muslims are taking over the world.

Well, let's just look at the last few decades:

First, Sarajevo.

1920: pop. 100k, 38% Sunni Muslim
1985: pop. 500k, 50% Sunni Muslim
1997: pop. 300k, 87% Sunni Muslim.

Now, France:

Before 1950, basically no Muslims in France.
Muslims today make up about 10% of France with a TFR is over 4. French people (non-Muslim) have a TFR of about 1.4. Today, 1 in 3 babies born in France is Muslim.

Muslims in France to not assimilate well and stick together in urban areas and dominate those areas demographically. Soon, France will be two countries. And those Muslims vote.

Next, Iran.

1950: Britian 3x larger than Iran.
1995: Iran now larger than Britian.
2050: Iran will be 50% larger than Britain.

I believe we are living in a fantasy to pretend extraordinarily high birthrates of non-assimilating Muslims are not a big deal. You can dismiss it as Muslims "taking over the world", but it is a reality regardless.

You don't believe a threat comes from the strength of Islamic culture. I respond: how do you explain their relentless growth, immigration, and lack of assimilation? I see no crisis in Islam. I see growth and new political power that must happen when population growth meets democracy. I believe your belief of a Muslim crisis come from an ethnocentric bais that is self-serving as to our presumed cultural superiority, but not an Darwinian, hard-nosed look at the situation.

If your theory of sudden assimilation or implosion of Muslims does not come to pass, what are you going to do: force them to stop breeding, kill them, deny them the vote, or outbreed them? Those are the choices. Otherwise, we need to get used to not offending Muslims.>

Postmodern mischief certainly contributed to the fuss. Without the new scene there wouldn't have been a problem. Why are the Germans tinkering with the art of renowned geniuses. In 2004, a postmodern artiste released a new version of Wagner's Parcifal which replaced the last scene of a white dove flying down to land on the Holy Grail with a speed-up photography of rabbits rotting, maggets and all. The reviewer for the New Yorker, said he literally thought he was going to throw up. The German audience booed lustily. Hey, postmodernists! Leave the classics alone!>

The show must go on!
It's funny how muslims are always ranting about how their religion is based on love and the pursuit of happiness for all mankind.
The proof is in the pudding....
Jesus said "you will no a man by his fruit" (Love, Joy , peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control...and "out of the mouth the heart speaks"...So, let's see here, their actions show violence and the words speak of hate. Again the proof is in the pudding.>

I bow in awe to the intelligent discussion from the East Coast.

Condescencion and sarcasm is very unbecoming.

Sweeping statements not based on fact don't impress, either. But now I know we're not supposed to question those kind of posts.>

Alicia:

Let me try to answer some of your points:

I define present-day Muslim culture as having many different strands...

I agree with this.

I am less concerned with the "outbreeding" than I am with the lack of assimilation of Muslims

We would not even be talking about Muslims if it were not for their huge population push. Of course the assimilation is the problem! But we wouldn't care if the numbers did not threaten.

Fareed Zakaria has also pointed out that many of the assimilation problems of Muslims in Europe relate to the superficial "tolerance" of the European elite

This is a dangerous thesis that does not take into account the power of Muslim culture. This culture works . People are attracted to its cultural power and assurance of truth. Zakaria has a condesending view of the Muslim culture IMO.

a Muslim immigrant can be a guest worker in France or Germany, for instance, but can never truly become French or German.

And here lies the danger. This is the same problem that South Africa had and now Israel has. You have large populations of minorities that are growing within your borders, and they do not have your culture. This is DANGEROUS.

...the American model of requiring immigrants who wish to become citizens to adhere to a set of values and rules has led to a much healthier, more truly pluralistic society.

Uh, have you looked lately at the US immigration reality? We are truly multicultural but divided, and our pluralistic culture is getting scary as nobody is assimilating. This ain't the 50s anymore, and we don't even know what will come of our multicultural experiment yet. It's new.

I have a sneaking suspicion that you don't really believe in the "Darwinian" argument you are advancing...You appear to be advancing it in order to suggest that people with whom you disagree are doomed to decline and eventually disappear altogether. Wishful thinking on your part, perhaps.

This sort of personal jab is just sad. First, the Darwinian "argument" is no opinion, it is a scientific fact. In our whole discussion, it is the only thing we know for sure.

You think I like the idea of Muslim superiority? You haven't read anything I've written.

I have never worried about modern western liberals - they are not even worth discussing regarding the future - they are history, regardless of what Muslims do. This is just a reality of breeding. What I am worried about is there being any Western culture left.

I believe you greatly underestimate the Muslim danger because you seem to think of everything from a liberal point of view. I don't believe you see the attraction and power a simple, authoritative religion has. I notice liberals tend to do this as they generally aren't very religious themselves.

But forgetting theory and opinion, I would ask you to forget ideology, yours and mine, and just look at the numbers like a scientist and see where they take you. If we were looking at chimps or wolves we wouldn't be arguing - Muslims would be seen as the new powerhouse they are. But we in the West are arrogant and forget all the other powerful cultures who have fallen before us to what seemed like barbarians who had just seemed to destroy, not create.>

M_David,

No, I did not answer with sarcasm and condescension. I answered with shock and disbelief.

I questioned your sweeping statement regarding Catholics being the only culture for faith and reason.>