R.O.P.
Saturday September 16, 2006
Iraqi jihadists vow to "destroy their cross in the heart of Rome ... and that their Vatican will be hit and wept over by the Pope."Church bombed in Gaza. It's an Orthodox parish.Two churches firebombed on the West Bank. One...
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About Crunchy Con
Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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R.O.P.?>
Religion Of Peace>
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, Have mercy on us.
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, Have mercy on us.
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, Have mercy on us.
Pray for Pope Benedict, regardless of your religious background. He is in grave and growing danger, and he will need the courage of the world to face it down.>
Lord Have Mercy!
May the mantle of the Theotokos envelope and protect Pope Bendict.>
Where s Charles Martel when you need him?>
Irony - an example:
The Pope makes a statement that some take to imply that Islam and Muslims have a tendency to settle disputes through violence.
To protest that statement Muslims fire bomb churches and threaten to bomb the Vatican.
Does anyone else feel as if we have somehow passed through a tunnel and entered into a parallel but slightly odd universe?
If these were not actual events taking place it would be comical in a South Park/Simpsonian parody sense.
Of course, now I am certain that someone will read what I have just written, completely misunderstand it and take issue with my calling it comical. Which, if that happens, would be yet another example of the bizzaro world - parody reality we now live in.
It seems to me in light of all of this maybe our new strategy for "the war on terror" against muslim extremists should shift from dropping bombs to creating a media environment in which a muslim/aribic version of the daily show and cobert report would develop.
Satire, sarcasm, and parody, in my opinion, are as important to western democracy as free elections.
Humor seems to have a moderating effect on extreme views and actions.>
With this post, I almost could have thought that I wandered over to L.G.F. ;)>
I have just seen the defaced photograph of B16, with accompanying slogans in Arabic denouncing him, that has been making its way around the internet.
My first thought was, "Why don't these people simply grow up?" I like to think that I, and most of my friends, grew out of that sort of overly emotional overreaction sometime in the early years of high school.
And I think that is a big part of the problem. The way many Muslims react to the slightest hint of criticism or disagreement strikes me as the behavior of people who simply haven't grown up.
Is there something about Islam that infantilizes so many of its followers?
I'm not suggesting that this is true of all Muslims; nor am I suggesting that it is only true of Islam. But the entire Muslim world seems to be full of, well, big babies.>
So, if the Muslims assassinate B16, how will Europe respond: like Oriana Fallaci or like Neville Chamberlain?>
"So, if the Muslims assassinate B16, how will Europe respond: like Oriana Fallaci or like Neville Chamberlain?"
it seems to me the answer is clear.
Aribic and Muslim leaders - secular and religious - maintain their control through the manipulation of the masses. The do this by establishing, in the minds of their people and their followers, "devils" that distract their subjects from their own corrupt and subjegating power.
If they can keep the people distracted by fervant anti western rhetoric they can maintain control.
I think we saw this in Irans covert support of Hamas in the most recent war between Israel and Hamas in Lebanon.
My point being that in this situation it is not so far fetched to conceive of a regime supporting an effort to assasinate the pope and thereby enflaming Europe against the middle east. Such instigation of violence might seem counter intuitive, but by some lights it might seem as another way of solidifying support for the regime against the infidel invaders with not so subtle parallels to the crusades.
that may be an outside possibility but it scares the hell out of me to even contemplate it.>
The head of Egypt's Coptic Orthodox Church has joined Muslims in denouncing Pope Benedict XVI's remarks. Coptic Pope Shenouda III apparently said that he didn't hear Pope Benedict XVI's exact words, but that "any remarks which offend Islam and Muslims are against the teachings of Christ." (Source: Associated Press)
I have to admit that I find this troubling. Is it really against the teachings of Christ to make any statements critical of Islam, or of Muslims?>
These people are psychotic and they must be dealt with in that manner.>
But the entire Muslim world seems to be full of, well, big babies.
Or bullies.
Is it really against the teachings of Christ to make any statements critical of Islam, or of Muslims?
No. But the Copts have suffered a certain amount of persecution in Egypt, and Pope Shenouda may be worried about repercussions against them.>
Shenouda is saying this because the Copts are an oppressed minority in Egypt, and could be wiped out if the Muslim majority wanted to turn on them. He's saying this out of abject fear, not conviction. He's trying to protect his people from pogroms, which are not infrequent in the Upper Nile region.>
Rod, I respect and appreciate Pope Shenouda's motives, but I am still troubled by what he said. Wanting to protect his people by distancing himself from Pope Benedict's speech is understandable, and even admirable in a prudential sense. But to do so by saying something which is not actually true seems dangerous, somehow. Maybe I'm reaching, here, but if Christian teaching really did forbid Christians to offend Muslims, then from a Muslim perspective Christians would be obligated by Christian teaching to accept dhimmitude.
As I read more statements from various Muslim leaders/groups calling for Pope Benedict XVI to make a 'better' apology, and threatening war over what I can't help but see as their misunderstanding of his words, I have to wonder if peaceful coexistence will ever be possible for Christians and Muslims, anywhere in the world.>
I really hope that the Pope does not issue a formal apology. First and foremost, he has nothing to apologise for if you read the speech in context, except for a mildly questionable choice of which quote to use (and he's already dealt with that part). Second, the Catholic Church, and indeed the Western world, simply cannot afford to bend to the will of another culture throwing a temper tantrum.>
EDIT:
"... the Western world, simply cannot afford to bend to the will of another culture throwing a temper tantrum."
should read "... will of PEOPLE IN another culture ...">
"offend" is one of those words that can have multiple meaning.
I.e., the Coptic Pope could be interpreted as meaning anything that is legitimately offensive or imprudent. I.e., that Christ teaches us to be wiser and Paul says love is not rude or arrogant.
Now, I do not believe that the Roman Pope's comments were rude or arrogant or offensive, but I can understand diplomatic reasons to leave this unsaid.>
May the Lord protect the Holy Father. He spoke the truth. He shouldn't rescind one syllable. I fear he will tho. I hope I'm wrong. If he doesn't and he is attacked, successfully or not then what? Will it be sufficient to awaken Christians from the liberalism induced slumber?
Sadly I doubt it, not in any large numbers at least. Our self-hatred is too deeply ingrained.
The Lord will use the Mohammadin to separate the wheat from the chaffe in the coming years, but like the breeding of a deep infection it will be messy and painful.>
Today he expressed his regrets.
He did not take back his words.
He reiterated what was already present in his lecture: that the words he was QUOTING were not his personal opinion.
However, the Italian news is reporting that a nun has been assassinated in Mogadishu.
Short of that horrendous fallout, I will say the Muslim reaction to the Pope's lecture proves his lecture right and necessary.>
P.S.
His actual message
">http://monkallover.blogspot.com/2006/09/message-of-pope-1202-pm-on-sunday-17.html>
I've been tracking back to visitors to my blog. One trail led here. Sorry for my redundant postings here.>
Can there be peace between Islam and Christianity?
Do you REALLY want the answer to that question?>
"So, if the Muslims assassinate B16, how will Europe respond: like Oriana Fallaci or like Neville Chamberlain?"
it seems to me the answer is clear.
Aribic and Muslim leaders - secular and religious - maintain their control through the manipulation of the masses. The do this by establishing, in the minds of their people and their followers, "devils" that distract their subjects from their own corrupt and subjegating power.
If they can keep the people distracted by fervant anti western rhetoric they can maintain control.
I think we saw this in Irans covert support of Hamas in the most recent war between Israel and Hamas in Lebanon.
My point being that in this situation it is not so far fetched to conceive of a regime supporting an effort to assasinate the pope and thereby enflaming Europe against the middle east. Such instigation of violence might seem counter intuitive, but by some lights it might seem as another way of solidifying support for the regime against the infidel invaders with not so subtle parallels to the crusades.
that may be an outside possibility but it scares the hell out of me to even contemplate it.
mike | Homepage | 09.16.06 - 10:36 pm | #
That addresses the question of whether or not they might assassinate the Pope. It leaves unanswered my "the-only-way-we'll-know-is-if-it-happens" question re: how Europe might respond to such an act.>
You are right eric. i am not sure anyone knows the answer. i think it is complicated because europe, well, western europe is very secular. I think it also depends on where the assassination takes place. If it were to happen in europe the reaction might be different than in the middle east.
But I am not an expert on any of this.>
http://www.anglican.tk/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=714
CaNN Special Report -- Hate That Pope! 1.0>
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