Haggard out in gay scandal
Thursday November 2, 2006
Whoa! Megachurch pastor and National Association of Evangelicals head the Rev. Ted Haggard has stepped down pending an investigation into allegations by a former gay male prostitute that he carried on a three-year relationship with the powerful minister. Haggard --...
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Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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One interesting note, a press conference was going to take place this afternoon where local Christian leaders would rally in support for the Rev. Haggard. It was canceled shortly before it was to take place. I think the Christian community here is stunned and not sure what to think. The Rev. Haggard has been pretty teflon-coated here and New Life has been one of the two pillars of evangelical Christianity around here (the other is Focus on the Family). I am very curious to see how Dr. Dobson handles this if it turns out to be true.
In the meantime, I pray for the continuing conversion of the Haggards and the man who accused the pastor.>
I've often wondered about various people, "Why would so-and-so do something so completely brazen that he's bound to get caught and lose everything?" I never have figured it out. I guess sometimes people in high positions just start to feel invincible.>
While one cannot conclude that this accusation will prove to be true, the man bringing the allegation has been in the Denver and Colorado Springs area for some time. His advertisements for services have appeared in local gay publications for a number of years and it wouldn't make a lot of sense for him to come forward without sufficient and accurate information to prove his claims. That is simply speculation on my part but it would seem like a huge mistake if his story is a fabrication. My hunch is that the information will bear the coming scrutiny and that the pastor's secrets are about to be exposed.
If Jesus was to be our example, then I don't understand this thing we now call Christian values. Pastor Haggard may believe that he speaks for God but his actions suggest that he merely fears his own humanity. Further, if the values he espouses exist to demonstrate his faith in the God he knows, then the God he knows must have already seen this element of his humanity that he cannot personally accept...which would mean that any true God has already accepted that which we humans won't and would also prove that the God Haggard purports to represent is not a real God but a God of his own creation designed to serve his flawed view of the human condition.
Read more here:
www.thoughttheater.com>
I was thinking tonight that he must have some pretty solid proof; a newspaper that published a damning accusation like this based only on the word of a prostitute would be setting itself up for a massive libel suit. In fact, their lawyers would never let them do it, and no reputable reporter would put his or her name on such a story.>
I was thinking tonight that he must have some pretty solid proof; a newspaper that published a damning accusation like this based only on the word of a prostitute would be setting itself up for a massive libel suit. In fact, their lawyers would never let them do it, and no reputable reporter would put his or her name on such a story.
Rod Dreher | 11.02.06 - 9:39 pm | #
Well, you know the newspaper business far, far better than I do, but the quote that tmatt has over at GetReligion.org from the accuser about Ted wanting an orgy with a bunch of college-age guys strikes me as ludicrous. I can't believe that someone of Haggard's visibility and position would ever say something like that. I pray I am not proven wrong.>
The really interesting statement is in the Denver Post, saying that reporters heard the tape but that the accuser refused to discuss the subject of the tape, being warned by his lawyer not to do so.
So the tape is so vague that one can listen to it and not even know the subject being discussed?>
They didn't say it was vague, they just said the escort wouldn't discuss the subject. That's two different things. Not sure that means the tape was vague, but instead it lacked context.
If the voice mail was about a sex-for-money transaction or a drug deal, the escort wouldn't want to implicate a possible criminal case against him.>
The accuser is not showing his "proof" to anyone.
The timing is R-E-A-L convenient.
Can anyone here spell S-A-N-D-B-A-G?>
The convenient timing was the first thing that crossed my mind, too.
I'm so out of the evangelical loop that I've never even heard of this Haggard guy. But the whole accusation thing soounds very, very fishy to me. Or should I say "smells"? It stinks to high heaven.
BTW, whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? No such thing in modern media land, I guess.>
I guess the proper response in a time like this is to pray for his wife and kids.
"I've often wondered about various people, "Why would so-and-so do something so completely brazen that he's bound to get caught and lose everything?" I never have figured it out. I guess sometimes people in high positions just start to feel invincible."
I think the fact that such things happen so often show that trying to understand human behavior through a lens of rationality definitely has its limits.>
I can't believe that someone of Haggard's visibility and position would ever say something like that. I pray I am not proven wrong.
That Woman Miss Lewinsky might contradict you on that point. So might Rembert Weakland, the former Catholic archbishop of Milwaukee, who spent lots of church dollars keeping his gay lover living in style. And remember too, when Jimmy Swaggart fell, he was really on top of his own world.
And oh, King David too.
People get weird and unpredictable, especially when sex is involved, is all I'm saying.>
I know I'm drifting off-topic, but I sometimes think (especially as a man) that sex isn't worth the trouble. It drives so much of what men do; it consumes so much of our thoughts; etc. I often wish I cut simply dispose of my sex drive...>
The Wikipedia article on Haggard has been quickly updated to include the story and some damning new allegations - meth use, admission of some of the details of the story, etc.
Ted Haggard has near-Dallas ties. Chuck Pierce of Glory of Zion Outreach Center - glory-of-zion.org - in nearby Denton, TX, used to be with the World Prayer Center, which was founded by Ted Haggard and is connected with his church. Pierce is now with C. Peter Wagner's group, Global Harvest Ministries, also in Colorado Springs.>
Just watched the interview with the interim senior pastor on local Denver news. Is it me, or does this guy have a smirk on his face during half of the interview? What's with that? It's really weird. Watch his facial expressions as the reporter asks him questions. Why the hell is he smiling like that? It gives the distinct impression that he almost enjoys seeing Ted Haggard going through this. I couldn't imagine that this guy takes pleasure in this scandal - maybe he's not media savvy, doesn't know how to present himself in front of cameras, etc. - but still it's just completely bizzare the way he smiles during this interview.
Anyone else get that impression?>
Rod: "People get weird and unpredictable, especially when sex is involved, is all I'm saying."
True. And people get even weirder when there's religion involved with the sex.>
I remember Jimmy Swaggart's fall, but unfortunately, the neo-cons in power do not.>
Jaybird
And even wierder, and more screwed up when religion gets involved with sex through government.>
This Nov. 3 AP story notes an admission of guilt by Haggard:
The acting senior pastor at New Life, Ross Parsley, told KKTV-TV of Colorado Springs that Haggard admitted that some of the accusations were true.
"I just know that there has been some admission of indiscretion, not admission to all of the material that has been discussed but there is an admission of some guilt," Parsley told the station.
He did not elaborate, and a telephone number for Parsley could not be found late Thursday.
I agree with CC that schandefreude over these revelations is an inappropriate response (would that far right Christians behaved in kind) but it is perfectly valid to denounce Haggard's followers who will make the choice to remain in denial and play the Vast Liberal Conspiracy Card, regardless of this admission of guilt and subsequent revelations that may be forthcoming in the days ahead.>
Not sure what to say about this one, except that if it's true, why on earth would he risk speaking out against gay marriage?
Good question. It begs a similar question about the infamous Roy Cohn, the pit-bull protege of the purely vile Joseph McCarthy.
Cohn was, among many other things, outspokenly anti-gay and yet was found out to be a closted, promiscuous gay man himself.
There seems to be a unique pathology to such table-pounding, on-ones-sleeve outspokeness and vilification of traits which said person secretly (or not so secretly) possesses himself.>
There is a bigger story here that no one seems to be covering, and that's the church movement that Haggard has been part of. Read Haggard's book THE LIFE-GIVING CHURCH. Read C. Peter Wagner's books CHURCHQUAKE and THE NEW APOSTOLIC CHURCHES. Read about "The New Apostolic Reformation" and how some of these people hope to rule and run the churches and other Christians.>
P.S.: From the late, great, Mr. Show:
">http://youtube.com/watch?v=c2VW1E3pRI8>
Jaybird
The firewall at my job won't let me see youtube feeds (bummer), by any chance is that the one where David Cross is the relapsing ex-gay Christian, or wicked scepter?>
Steve:
Yeah, it's the recidivist Christian homosexual bit.>
If someone falsely accuses me in a way that would damage my livlihood-- follow me here, folks-- do I resign and wait for an investigation?
I don't know about you guys, but I SCREAM BLOODY MURDER,CALL THE ACCUSER A TOTAL LIAR AND IF POSSIBLE PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE.
Now I'm not a megachurch pastor, so I don't know if Pastor Ted's behavior is some kind of 'turn the other cheek' deal, but it looks to me like he's done something he's ashamed of.
With a wife and five kids, it's a sticky situation. I feel sorry for the guy. Shoulda kept it in his pants.>
In addition to keeping it in his pants, he should have kept his mouth shut regarding his hateful anti-gay stance.
One can only surmise that righties who protest the loudest bring their destruction upon themselves when they prove to be as human as the rest of the "dirty queers."
Schadenfreude? Perhaps. Unjustified? Hell no.>
P.P.S.: Added to friends list!
">http://www.myspace.com/tedhaggard>
Am I the only one that wonders how history will treat this administration and it's supporters?
We know that gay marriage acceptance will happen. We know that the world will evolve into a more user friendly place.
Those are a given. It's in our best interests as a species and that's what always comes about no matter how hard mankind fights to keep their ignorance and bigotry in control of things.
But one has to wonder what they'll be teaching about our current events in history classes twenty five years from now.
Here's to longevity. Long may it live.>
"I mean, Swaggart was a bad guy"
WAS???
Rod, were you present the FIRST time Swaggart got caught and admitted he had sinned, or the SECOND time he got caught?
Or were you present when he told his congregation that "If a man so much as looked at me 'funny', I'd KILL him and tell God he died."???
Curious minds want to know.
More on Haggard soon...>
Rod,
"why on earth would he risk speaking out against gay marriage?"
Because it's what the radical religious rightwing extremists WANT to hear. It makes them feel BETTER than the fags (hence the term, "betterosexuals").
Oh, and in their smug 'moral superiority', it puts money in the collection plate. This is NOT rocket science to figure out.>
Can there be any question this guy was itching for a smackdown? Indulging in a long-running paid-in-cash affair with a he-whore (never mind the drugs!) while leading a movement of 30 million people with the goal of preventing people just like himself from ever enjoying the simple dignity of full legal recognition and support for their boring old monogamous relationships, is beyond self-destructive. It's suicidal, and sad, and Ted Haggard needs help - and not from the righteous Godfathers of the evangelical movement (who are undoubtedly itching to roll out the Ted Haggard Tears of Contrition Tour), but from somebody who can help him figure out how destructive his drug habit is, and how human, and normal, and non-pathological his sexual desires are. Too bad he won't get it.
That's the closet for you, and a big fat Ted Haggard thank you! to all you self-appointed warriors-in-Christ who keep trying to shove us back in it.>
If the allegations against Haggard are true, and even if they're not, I would suppose that one could engage in homosexual acts and still be against "gay marriage."
I think.
Yes? No?
Is such an attitude schizoid, or is it one that could be reasonably held?>
Interesting: Soldiers of Christ.
(Thanks to "TK" over at GetReligion for the link.)>
What Michael said!>
Eric Weiss,
"If the allegations against Haggard are true, and even if they're not, I would suppose that one could engage in homosexual acts and still be against "gay marriage."
I think.
Yes? No?
Is such an attitude schizoid, or is it one that could be reasonably held?"
"Reasonably"??? No. One could hold that attitude, but one would rightly be labelled a hypocrite. As is happening to the Swaggarts/Haggards of the world now.>
One of the sad things about this scandal is the fact that Haggard was one of the evangelical leaders who recognizes the dangers of global warming. Haggard also appeared in a PBS documentary on the evils of consumerism. I've been long hoping for some kind of cooperation between evangelicals and progressives/leftists on issues that both agree relate to the good of all, such as global capitalism and the breakdown of the US economy, ballooning deficits, the crisis in public health, a new policy in the Middle East, etc., and I can't help but conclude that the scandal will have the effect of further dividing our society, when the greatest problems of the present require making alliances across political boundaries.>
I would suppose that one could engage in homosexual acts and still be against "gay marriage."
I think that's true, just as a woman can reject the option of abortion for herself and still be pro-choice.
Still, you'd think that someone who is gay and sexually active would tone down the rhetoric somewhat.>
"We know that gay marriage acceptance will happen. We know that the world will evolve into a more user friendly place.
Those are a given. It's in our best interests as a species and that's what always comes about no matter how hard mankind fights to keep their ignorance and bigotry in control of things."
harvey,
Tell that to the Scandinavians and the Dutch who are ceasing to exist as a people. Gay Marriage good for the species. Right. Only if you want to make the species extinct.>
I am a former charismatic Christian who did much of the same things Rev. Haggard did. I lived a double life until I was 39 and then came out. It was a long and painful process and I was fortunate to have counseling (non-Christian)and friends to help me accept my sexuality.
Interestingly, several members of my parish and I figured that approximately 10% of the men (both married and single)in our church were gay.
Although I support "outing" Rev. Haggard because of his hypocrisy and the fact he was hurting the gay community, I also grieve for his wife and family. And I also grieve for him. Their pain must be enormous.
I believe that the gay community will accept Rev. Haggard with open arms if he chooses to enter the community. I wonder if the Christian community will also love him. Somehow, I think they will mouth the right words but keep him as far away as possible.>
Tim F,
"Gay Marriage good for the species. Right. Only if you want to make the species extinct."
If you could explain how my marriage has made heterosexuals stop breeding, you might be believed.
Until then though ...>
Jailbird
Holy !%??!#@$%^&, that is awsome!!! I never would have thought to search for him on myspace. I love the modern world. I wonder if Mark Foley is....?>
northernspring wrote: " I am a former charismatic Christian who did much of the same things Rev. Haggard did. I lived a double life until I was 39 and then came out. It was a long and painful process and I was fortunate to have counseling (non-Christian)and friends to help me accept my sexuality.
Interestingly, several members of my parish and I figured that approximately 10% of the men (both married and single)in our church were gay.
Although I support "outing" Rev. Haggard because of his hypocrisy and the fact he was hurting the gay community, I also grieve for his wife and family. And I also grieve for him. Their pain must be enormous.
I believe that the gay community will accept Rev. Haggard with open arms if he chooses to enter the community. I wonder if the Christian community will also love him. Somehow, I think they will mouth the right words but keep him as far away as possible." northernspring | 11.03.06 - 1:41 pm | #
The strongest indications so far are that Haggard may have been a meth purchaser/user, per the transcripts of the phone conversations. The gay/homosexual issue is at this point a leap, IMO. But this story is changing color by the hour....>
-curious and curiouser
Here are a few for the, If I Had A Nickel For Every Time I Heard That Awards, also known as IHANFETIHT...
"Ever since I got gay-married my wife stopped wanting to have kids with me."
or
"I want to get gay married, so I think I won t be having kids this time."
or my favorite
"Dude that guy is like so gay, screw having kids."
Anyway, I hope you can now see how you are single handedly (or two through gay-marriage), de-populating the earth.>
Now Pastor Ted is denying the SEX part but saying he bought crank from the guy, but threw it away. Oh right.
Like I didn't inhale, dude.
Now if this is a lie and the hustler has proof about the sex part, and/or lurid and convincing tales about just what they did and where, Pastor Ted is just digging himself a deeper hole.
Prediction: no matter what happens, no matter if there are graphic videos even, a good number of evangelicals will believe Pastor Ted is completely innocent.
Because they have FAITH!
If you can believe in the goodness of George W Bush as he screwed America before your very eyes, continuing to have faith in Pastor Ted should be easy.>
Mark Foley, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, etc. All tragedies caused by human weakness and sin. Genuine Christians will sense the tragedy and pray for such people and those victimized by them and those close to them caught in the wreckage.>
It's interesting that being seen as a meth user is somehow "better" than being seen as a gay man.>
That's certainly the implication that abounds isn't it?>
I say to the world...Keep your eyes on Jesus...we that are made of flesh and blood are prone to failure..only Th Lord is pure and Holy with no sin.."The first one of you with no sin may cast the first stone" Those with sin in their life....find out what Jesus wrote in the dirt.....!!!Also I realize men put themselves in these positions and are looked at by the world so to them I say..Be careful to say" THUS SAITH THE LORD">
"steve",
You're as delusional as "Tim F"...
"Here are a few for the, If I Had A Nickel For Every Time I Heard That Awards, also known as IHANFETIHT...
"Ever since I got gay-married my wife stopped wanting to have kids with me."
Now that's a knee-slapper. You've heard THAT so often? From heterosexual men? You too funneee.
"I want to get gay married, so I think I won t be having kids this time."
I've never heard that even ONCE from a heterosexual person. What circles do you run in, anyway?
or my favorite
"Anyway, I hope you can now see how you are single handedly (or two through gay-marriage), de-populating the earth."
Nope. I still can't. You haven't given me even one example of a reality-based argument that my marriage has stopped betterosexuals from breeding.
Try again, and do better this time.>
Deacon John,
"Genuine Christians will sense the tragedy and pray for such people and those victimized by them"
You mean the gay people that the 'genuine Christians' continue to victimize and deny equality to?
Yes, I will be praying for THOSE victims of this lieing hypocritical leader of the fanatical radical rabid rightwing extremist "christianist" cult of hate.>
I believe it is true but we must all remember that just because they are men of God does not mean they are perfect. None of us is perfect and I believe but for the grace of God, that could be any one of us. I don't believe that we as a church should judge him, that is God's job. We should stand behind him and his family in prayer and ask that God restore him.>
"ask that God restore him"
You mean "cure" him, shurely!
Hint: it ain't a disease, and it cannot be "cured".>
The intolerance of THIS church and others like it is precisely WHY this man has had such a great fall! If people just learned to ACCEPT homosexuality as what it is--NOT a choice, but as natural (for some) as heterosexuality is for others. If physical differences in the brains of homosexual men aren't proof that this is NOT a choice, what IS? Why can't we all just accept each other as GOD's creations and leave it at that? Clearly this man's NATURAL inclinations had to be hidden so that he could "appear" to be "normal." What a terrible, sad shame. Not only has he had to live a lie all these years but what about his wife and children? It is HORRIBLE that people are SO judgmental that this man was forced to SNEAK to be himself--as God made him!! It's ever MORE horrible that people will PRAY for this man's AFFLICATION--when it is NO such thing.>
northernspring wrote:
"I believe that the gay community will accept Rev. Haggard with open arms if he chooses to enter the community."
Well, now he's "completely heterosexual"! Just think, "cured" and after only 3 weeks of "therapy".
As if.>
Charlene,
"I say to the world...Keep your eyes on Jesus..."
Yadda yadda yadda.
You DO know that women are NOT permitted to "preach" nor "teach" according to Scripture, no?>
Rhonda,
"The intolerance of THIS church and others like it is precisely WHY this man has had such a great fall!"
At least Haggard did not commit suicide, like another pastor now in the news here on B'net.
What these "churches" "teach" is vile, hateful lies and nothing more.>
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