If she hadn't passed away earlier, Benedict's capitulation on Turkey's EU bid would have killed her. Well, the Vatican is saying that it's not that big a deal, Benedict's saying that he now encourages Turkey's bid to join the EU, when in the past he had been against it. That means that the Pope is now pretty much on the same page as Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew on that question. Bartholomew wants it because he believes that it will result in more religious freedom for the few remaining Christians in Turkey. The price of this, though, would be opening up the entire European continent to unrestricted immigration from a strongly Islamic nation of 70 million -- and this would risk annihilating European culture. If the Turks were having to consider a massive influx of European Christians, of which there are fewer and fewer each day, into their country, they'd be quite right to be concerned about how their Islamic culture and society would be permanently altered. But everybody knows that virtually no French, Germans, Italians and Spaniards will be migrating to Ankara; the movement will be entirely westward.
In 2004, when he was still a cardinal, Benedict said publicly that historically and culturally, Turkey has always been distinct from Europe. What he might have said too was that in fact the Turks have for centuries been the sworn enemy of Europe. Now, no one should want enmity to continue, but seeking peaceful coexistence in no way requires political union. Why Turkey (and more broadly, Islamic civilization) has been the enemy of Christendom have to do with geopolitics, yes, but also with very different and incompatible cultural values. Benedict is now saying that if Turkey meets EU requirements on free speech and freedom of religion, then its entry into the EU would be fine. But the state changing its laws does not change what's in the hearts of its people. What happened to the Ratzinger who once understood that, and understood that European Christian culture, or what's left of it, would be permanently altered, and maybe even eliminated, by the Islamic flood from Turkey? And for that matter, why on earth does the Orthodox Patriarch believe gaining more legal liberty for the few Orthodox remaining in the former Constantinople is worth Europe's opening the gates to massive legal Muslim immigration -- especially with Western Europe so spiritually and culturally weak, and failing to reproduce itself?
What am I missing here?

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Merry Christmas, Diane!
Joseph, as long as I get to be the caliph then I'm all in favor of the idea. How's that for convenience? Otherwise I demand we do it my way - democratically.>
"What am I missing here?"
That Benedict is a product of self-hating European civilization that is absolutely determined to value the other over itself to the point of annhiliation.
Perhaps when we have a Pope that is NOT a European we will see some change but I doubt there are 1000 Europeans left that have any interest in seeing Western civilization preferred or even preserved in the world.>
I know this thread has about run dry, but can anyone out there help? I have read about the restrictions on the EO Church in Turkey. I know that Turkey's government was almost Stalinist in its secularism. What restrictions, if any are placed on Islam? I recall reading somewhere, (don't recall where) that the Turkish gov't must vet all sermons in the mosques. Can anyone help me out here with facts?
Kim M>
All Friday sermons are written centrally by the gov't. Women can't wear veils in gov't buildings or universities. No beards in the Army. Patriarch must be a Turkish citizen (i.e., can't be from Greece or elsewhere). Although military service is required, anyone religious (i.e., pious Muslim) won't advance to a high rank. Google it and you'll see.>
Interesting comments about western values. Are we talking about how thousands of muslims were killed in Bosnia right under the freedom loving eyes of Christian Europe in this very decade? Or is it the new leader of the Christian world spreading Christ's message of peace and forgiveness in Iraq and Afghanistan that represents West's moral superiority? Or perhaps Christian (read here Western) values are best reflected in the economic strangulation of poor countries in Africa,Asia and South America? It is sad to see that the "enlightened" Christians have turned to arrogance to hide their insecurities about thier own faith as well as Islam.Knowledge, power and wealth should serve to make societies generous and confident not mean and insecure. Perhaps the West needs to begin to look at itself before it can throw stones at a people it percieves to be morally ,intellecually and spiritually inferior to it.>
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