Hooching up little girlz

I have two sons. They DO like dolls, despite their words to the contrary (the Backyardigans, Dora and Diego) but I'm glad that the odious Bratz don't register with them.
I did see one instance of "Girl Power" nicely applied at my son's 4th birthday party, held yesterday. One little pal slid off the My Gym slide head-first and bumped her cheek on the carpet. Her mother comforted her for a good few minutes and, when she felt better, another parent gave the girl a "Girl Power" high-five for being so brave.
The little girl smiled and ran to the trampoline.
By the way, my son and all 9 party attendees have autism.>

We've forbidden Bratz in our home, though the youngest of our three daughters is frighteningly intrigued by the stuff her friends at school like to show off.

Yuck.

Refusal and resistance is no small task... have you noticed that the general trend in available and affordable pre-pubsecent girls' clothing is very "Bratzy"? We're not exactly Puritans, but please...

And re: s.a.farris above, I can definitely appreciate that kind of girl power. One of our daughters has autism, and we cling to moments of triumph like you described.>

In other words, the world, the flesh and the devil are all wrapped up in for sale undisguised in toys intended for young--- and now even younger-- girls. My four-year-old daughter is drawn to this crap when we go to the toy store, and, yes, we refuse and resist. There is something psychological and primal about the draw, and MGA Entertainment is clearly on to something. I'll bet their internal market research documents are very interesting. What will replace Bratz in another ten or twenty years if the trend continues? I shudder.>

What will replace Bratz in another ten or twenty years if the trend continues? I shudder.


Anatomically correct Jenna Jameson dolls complete with "pre- and post-op" inflatable chest?>

Fortunately our daughter isn't interested in Bratz (my wife refers to them as "hydrocephalic prostitute dolls" :), but even if she were they wouldn't cross the threshold. Frankly, I'm even a little iffy on Barbie, but that bridge was crossed long ago and there ain't no goin' back...

the youngest of our three daughters is frighteningly intrigued by the stuff her friends at school like to show off

That's one of the best things about homeschooling - we still have a modicum of control over her external environment.

(And before someone starts yammering about "socialization" - our homeschool group is quite diverse, running the gamut from quite conservative Christians to... well, to us, really... ;) and including families from a number of ethnic backgrounds, socioeconomic strata, etc.)>

My daughters are 23 and 14. R is getting married next August; H is taking Saturday classes at a nearby art college. Both have a clear and very personal view of "fashion" and appearance, and neither of them has strayed into the trap of looking like what others want them to look. Besides my encouragement and that of my sisters, they have their mother to thank for it. H had the added help of her older sister, and we allowed her to start buying her own clothes two full years ealier than we let R do so.

Before it became likely that such gifts would be purchased, my wife and I laid down the law with both of our families: any gift other than clothing had to be approved by one of us, no exceptions. In this way, we warded off the worst of the fads, Barbie never crossed our threshold, and dolls of any sort (including non-human stuffed friends) were chosen just like one might decide to take in a living pet. I won't say that my children (including our son) are immune to the commercial plague, but we've innoculated them about as well as it is possible to be so, short of making them live on a mountain top or in a bomb shelter.

An open message to all the parents out there who don't see the danger in letting their children masquerade as adults: if you shudder at the thought of a predator getting his or her hands on your child, why in the name of every god would you dress your child to be a tempting target? Do you really want every adult male who sees your daughter to be attracted to her?

Somewhere along the way, being well-groomed seems to have become restricted to looking like a well-groomed adult. Kids should look like kids.>

My daughters(twins-5yr)love the Bratz. I have mixed feelings about the Bratz.

I like them better than Barbie. They have big heads, big feet, weird eyes, and lips on steroids. Aspiring to look like a Bratz doll will not be a goal.

IMO: They are funny. I wouldn't want my daughters to make a habit of talking like the Bratz, but now and then, it's funny. Example-one day my 5 year old got dressed and asked the other 5 year old how the outfit she had chosen looked. The 5 yr old replied, "You are stylin, girlfriend!" Then they both giggled. They play "girlfriend" a lot.

My girls have a passion for fashion. They didn't get it from the Bratz. They've liked to make outfits out of dress-up stuff since they've been 2 or 3. Some of the things they put together are pretty impressive. Many are just plain ridiculous. They like pretty things.

We talk a lot about the Bratz and the mall thing. They LOVE the whole idea of shopping and buying pretty things. They'll have to learn money management lessons or they'll go broke.

My girls aren't shallow. They are both very caring people. They are kind to their friends. They love animals and prefer to play with stuffed animals over just about any other toy.

The Bratz aren't sluts. They have friends that are boys, but they are friends and not lovers or lust objects.

Girl power is a great thing. The Bratz work through conflicts. They make mistakes. They admit their mistakes. They forgive each other. They are best friends.>

Here's an idea, unplug the TV. Nobody is forcing anybody to watch TV. I just don't get it when people complain about what is on the tube but refuse to turn it off. If your kids absolutely have to watch a cartoon on Saturday morning, check it out from the library.>

I say that this all could have been avoided had Ken recieved a penis. Our sexphobic culture has inspired a cutural phenomenon where the suffers engage in overcompensation.

And the whole "Bratz" concept must be for adults' egos because my little sister doesn't really have the abstract thinking level to really care about halter tops, miniskits or shiny hips or know what their significance is. All she cares about is if the doll's female and if the hair can be combed out with a real comb.>

My girls had innumerable Barbies who inevitably became naked (and sometimes headless) in short order.

Listening to them play with the Barbies, it became quite clear that they were working out their own ideas through play. Some of the stuff they came up with was worthy of an O'Neill drama, and had nothing to do with what the Mattel marketing department thought girls are interested in.

At the same time, I do agree there's nothing like having daughters to make one a cultural conservative. Beyond "refusing and resisting" in one's own life, there's the job of teaching children to cast their own critical eye on their own culture--"Tell me what they did to you (in school, on TV, etc. etc.) today, dear.">

Once again I see people underestimating the power of a parent and over estimating the power of the media.

You want to know what destroys a girls potential as a human being and inspires her to settle for being a sex object?

I believe dad has a ton to do with it. Dad not being exclusive to father in this instance.

Dad's with his six year old at the grocery market. He sees a nice looking woman dressed like a professional. "Look dahlin', I bet she's a lawyer" he tells his daughter. "When you grow up you can be a lawyer too if you go to school and study hard."

About that time an over developed fifteen year old walks by falling out all over. Only a little cloth covers the her future and past and there's cleavage into next week.

Dad almost breaks his neck spinning to stare and daughter's arm gets dislocated in the process.

Now what has dad just taught his daughter?

How about the way to get dad's attention is to go slutty?

I have a story about learning. It's personal but that doesn't stop it from being universal.

In my forties in a reflective moment I figured out where I got my work ethic and desire to be faster while doing better than my peers.

It came from sitting at the supper table and dad talking about the men he worked with. There was respect and admiration for those that were clever and worked harder than anyone else. There wasn't respect in his voice when he discussed men who didn't care or carry their share.

About the time I realized that I understood that I'd had what I wanted most since I was in my twenties. I had my father's respect.

I don't believe I'm that much different from Rod. Sure he's thinner, paid more per word, and he goes to church more often than I do. But he learned his life lessons just like the rest of us. His kids will too.

People complain about the kids of today. They say they're lazy. Could it have anything to do with dad and mom complaining all the time about working for nothing?

People complain about kids disrespecting older adults. Could listening to parents cuss and complain about old people driving or walking too slow while shopping?

People complain about kids being too thing oriented. Could it be because they hear their parents praise those with and discredit those without?

It isn't about the media folks. It's about the power a parent exerts in conversation.

My best advice to parents is to assume they've got a video crew following them seven twenty four. Because they do.>

Watsy - seriously, listen to yourself.
Teach that to your kids. "Here, sweetie, this is how you insult someone without saying anything."

My girls had a little friend over and she's not permitted to watch the Bratz. My girls wanted to show her a Bratz video. I told them to go find something else to play. The little girl said, "I can watch it. As long as I don't tell my Mom, it will be OK."

I've checked them out. We've had discussions about the shopping (Have you noticed that the Bratz never pay for anything that they buy? Do you really think that shopping is the best way to make yourself feel better? Do you really think shopping solves problems? What kinds of problems can shopping create? Can you think of better ways to spend money?) Amazing conversations.

Or, I could just call tell my daughter that they're Slutz and Hooker Dollz and have them wondering why Mom would say something so awful when they do watch a video at a friends and only see 4 good friends solving problems and being best friends.>

sigilaris,
For men who really want their daughters to be treated with respect, I suggest they focus less on controlling the viewing and dressing habits of little girls, and more on controlling their own behavior and that of their fellow men.

It's hardly an either/or proposition... I do model respect for women in my own behavior, and I am also teaching my daughter that she deserves to be treated with respect, and to treat HERSELF AND others the same way.

GOM,
Listening to them play with the Barbies, it became quite clear that they were working out their own ideas through play. Some of the stuff they came up with was worthy of an O'Neill drama, and had nothing to do with what the Mattel marketing department thought girls are interested in.

Yes, but the medium - if not actually the message - does have an effect on the type of play that gets enacted... I've seen it at work in my own family and others.

watsy,
Aspiring to look like a Bratz doll will not be a goal.

Ya don't think so? Good luck with that.

The little girl said, "I can watch it. As long as I don't tell my Mom, it will be OK."

So, did you let her watch it? Teach *that* to your kids...

Until this thread, I didn't even know they had a cartoon - my estimation of the Bratz is based entirely on seeing the dolls in the store.>

No, it's not an either/or proposition, and you'll note I didn't say either/or, but less/more. My point is twofold:

1. Your daughter will be disrespected by men, flagrantly and repeatedly, throughout her lifetime, regardless of what she says or does. It would be pretty to think that, as a society, we've gotten past that, but we haven't.

2. Waxing indignant over toys and cartoons, while it is a pleasant pastime that I've indulged in myself often enough, will do very little to change that. I didn't give my children Barbies, and I wouldn't give them Bratz. Watsy would, yet she sounds like a pretty good mom to me. Either way, it does not matter. The effect of the Bratz/no Bratz controversy on the place of women in society will be zip. Zero.

My daughter didn't play with Barbies or dress like Bratz. She respects HERSELF all right--yet she has been molested, accosted, hollered at from car windows, groped on the bus. If you want your daughter to escape the same indignities, teaching her to be a "good girl" and turning off the TV isn't going to cut it. You're going to have to change your fellow men.>

So, did you let her watch it? Teach *that* to your kids..

No, Eric. We had a conversation about what it is about the Bratz that the little girl's mom doesn't like. She didn't know what her Mom didn't like. I told them what she probably didn't like because I didn't like it either. THEN, I told them how important it is to respect our parents when we leave the house by respecting their rules.

Good posts, sigaliris.

Actually, my girls don't have a Bratz doll. They have a video that they watch now and then. They have 2 books that I read to them. Their favorite Bratz activity is to color pictures that I copy from a web site. They talk as they color and turned them into a book.

They like the "Best Friends" dolls. Grieling is right. It's all about the hair. Those dolls have big heads and big feet and dress better than the Bratz with less glamour. But they have GREAT hair for combing and styling.

Play does sometimes imitate the Bratz. It can be eye opening. One day they were pretending that they were on their cell phones. They were being rather mean to the person at the other end.
I asked, "Who are you talking to?"
Daughter A said, "Our boyfriends."
I said, "Why are you being so mean to your boyfriends?"
Daughter A said, "They want us to do drugs. We don't do drugs. They aren't going to be our boyfriends if they try to make us do drugs."

This mornings conversation with Daughter B.
B:"Mom, can I adopt a baby without getting married?"
Me: "It's best to have a husband when you have a baby. Why do you ask? Do you want a baby but not a husband?"
B: She nods
Me: "Why don't you want a husband?"
B: "Because you have to do that thing."
Me: "What thing? Kissing?"
B: "Yes. And you know where(she's making a face).
Me: "On the lips?"
B: "Yes. It's disgusting(making a really sick face)."
Me: "Let's wait and see. You might not think it's disgusting when you're 20."
B: Big smile and gives me a hug>

Siglaris I do believe you've cut to the chase on this one.

One of the problems with the religious perspective on this issue is they give lust an undeserved power over mankind. Of course we're known less for our allies and more for our enemies. So I guess glorifying the power of lust escalates our own reputation if we don't succumb to it, right?

Traditionally the religious perspective always puts the onus on the woman. The man was just being a man and when she revealed an eyelash it released the beast in him.

We can look at the Islamic policy of total coverage of the female body. It's just an extreme version of what's being advocated here. The other extreme of course would not be total nudity. The opposite of the burqa would be sensual nudity.

Aren't we assuming the same position as the Islamic fundamentalist that Rod so loves to hate when we suggest that it's the woman's fault?

Siglaris is right. The attitude of men is what we're needing to change instead of the attitudes of the women. Well, kinda sorta, every one of these men have women in their lives that evidently reinforced the concept of it being the woman's fault. Men aren't raised in a vacuum.

One of the things I love to point out about self esteem is how and where we get it. We get it from the mirror that is the faces of those we interact with. We search others faces and make a decision about our status by their reaction to us.

Invariably the parent with the brat in the grocery store allows bratting one oh one because correcting the child might affect their self esteem.

That's cart before the horse logic one oh one and two oh two.

The brat gets disapproving looks from every adult within two blocks. The child is getting feedback that they're bad. And since they haven't been corrected they're not sure why they're bad. They're just bad.

The child that is well behaved will be swamped with approval. Adults of every stage of adulthood will complement the parent and the child repeatedly and often.

That's the horse before the cart logic alive and well, hugs too.

If that works for little kids then why can't we use the same concept for older ones?

Let's say Rod is at Whole Foods with the boys and one of the wannabes from just outside of Highland Park comes by with enough silicone to stock two Home Depots and enough Botox to plug a rip in Hoover Dam.

Rod has the perfect opportunity to teach his boys one of the most important lessons of all. He ignores her. After all, she's went through all that modification for attention. The appropriate response is to ignore her. When the boy turns to stare in amazement, not sexual interest, just pure disbelief of those proportions. Rod scolds the child about staring at people who are handicapped. It isn't polite.

The same discussions and reactons should occur everytime the boys are with Rod and exposed to examples of self mutilation or other inappropriate personal expressions intended only for the sake of shocking bystanders. It's not about bad or evil. It's about being handicapped.

I know it's unfair to the handicapped as we usually categorize them. But in fact it's the same thing. People alter their body or act trashy not because they're evil or bad. But because they either don't or are incapable of understanding what they're doing. They're handicapped.

Another thing while I'm at it, I'm home sick, double doggone darn sinus infection. We have to remember that there are tipping points for all of life's lessons. Our attitudes about sex comes early on. Waiting until a child is in puberty to teach lessons on sexuality is comparable to charging that rip in the Hoover Dam with only a hypodermic full of Botox.

This is not teaching the child about the mechanics of sex. Heck the animals at the zoo get it right with a minimum of practice. We're smarter than that. Mechanics don't need to be taught or discussed. What needs to be taught at the earliest ages is respect and appreciation for people as persons with value. This is the foundation for a healthy attitude towards sex later on because sex is just one facet of us as people. It's a small facet about us when you look at your day and interactions with others.

Unless of course for whatever reason you're handicapped. Then you deserve compassion, not credit.>

Harvey is correct. It's not OK to disrespect a person if she looks like a slut or a hooker. We teach our boys and girls that if they look the right way, then they deserve our respect. If not, we can call them Slutz or Hooker Dollz and throw them into the trash.

Jesus saw the inner pain of Slutz and Hooker Dollz and showed compassion. I like to think that Jesus has a sense of humor and could handle, "You're stylin, girlfriend." But, maybe not.

I don't think that we're disagreeing as to what's good or bad for kids. I think that we're disagreeing as to how to handle it.

Dale Price turns off the tv. That will work for a little. I think that it would be more effective to watch the commercials, and then say, "I don't like that commercial. I think that girls should show more respect for themselves by wearing more clothes. I think that girls look pretty when they look natural(less makeup)and behave pretty(with kindness towards others).

I agree with Erica's post.>

Good points, Franklin. I was LOL when I got to your smiley face, so I felt pretty confident that I could handle the rest of it.

I don't believe that society has it in for men. I do think that a lot of men make a lot of money by sexually exploiting women in the music and entertainment industry. Women are adults and choose to let it happen because they make a lot of money.

Girls do need to know that men don't think like women. I haven't had those conversations with my daughters because they are too innocent and don't have the background knowledge to understand.

But my girls think that women who wear makeup and jewlery are pretty. I don't wear it often. My daughters always comment when I do because they say I look prettier when I do. They don't understand why I would choose not to look prettier. I have pierced ears and haven't had earrings in my ears since they were born. They want to have pierced ears & can't understand why I don't wear beautiful earrings.

Girls want to be pretty. I could talk until I'm blue in the face and look at every glamour doll out there and say, "That's really ugly." They would say, "I think it's beautiful." If I got indignant enough, they'd simply stop sharing their opinion of beauty and conversation would stop. It doesn't mean that their opinions would change.>

Watsy, my friend... you are a woman, and not accorded an opinion in this: the dead weight of the male hands of patriarchy over many centuries dictates that women are sexual objects, and that men are to compete for them in any way necessary and possible. (Keep smiling; I am.)

We have come a very long way since women-as-chattel, bride prices and dowry, marriage as succession and male-only property rights. But when it comes to sexual behavior and expectations, all of that is superficial and has not been enough to change the basic fact: women are forced* to conform with concepts of appearance that have at their root how a woman will look to the sexual eye of a male. That is the crux of this discussion and Rod's original complaint. Yes, girls grow up to be women to at some point they will start having sex; no, girls should not be made into sexual creatures before they actually have the body parts and functions that qualify them as sexual creatures. Our society bulldozes right over the reality of physical and emotional development and instead convinces the parents with words like self-esteem and "sassy" that it is a Good Thing for an 11-year-old to look like a sexual athlete. And, by extension, for a 16-year-old to look like she just had an orgasm and is ready right now for the next one. Let us not bandy words and suffer with euphemisms. These are my daughters we are talking about, and if I cannot muster the outrage this deserves, then I do not deserve to be a father.

* Women who refuse to conform, besides getting the applause of the rare man like me, find themselves somewhere on the scale that ramps up to "man-hating dyke". They are accused of hating themselves, hating their femininity, or being afraid of their sexuality, all in the service of men who want them sexually but expect to fail... and they can't tolerate failure, even if it would all just be in their imaginations.>

Your child is an infant - enjoy her as she is now!

Teach your sons not to be disrespectful of the girls who choose to model "Bratz" behavior - they are still human and so, worthy of respect - even if they have little self-respect. They may not have any better example of behavior to model.

My beautiful 16 year old daughter is an incredible person. She always has been, but there was that stage that she went through where she truly believed that she was being abused by the fact that she lived in the country and could not participate in the daily mall visits that her school chums in the city could or make it to every single slumber party.

It was a struggle in forth and fifth grade and then into middle school. I banned the Disney channel from my mom's house (she had cable - we still do not) because of Brittany Spears and the Spice Girls etc. The whining about needing clothes from "Limited Too" was just totally unexpected and annoying. She once explained to me that she would like to be first in setting a fashion trend at school instead of having to wait till everything went on sale and was "old".

She had Barbies - tons, and they ended up naked and headless but well played with. I was the very first "Barbie generation" and my sisters and I each had only one Barbie our entire life! My child had tons! But, she has had much more of everything than I did at comparable stages in development.

We moved to a small town because of lifestyle issues. We wanted our children to live a less hectic, less stressful kind of existence - it turned out that in order to get the kind of education we wanted for our children, we had to send them back into the city - but we have so much control over their activities because of the distance. It is a pain to have to chauffer them constantly, but we bought a huge van so I could be the one doing the driving - I always know where they are and who they are with -

(Yes - I know - a helicopter mother - hovering over my children all of the time.)

The values of the people in the school we struggle financially to send them to often clash with ours - the tolerence of teenage drinking, the materialism, the cut throat competition in every aspect of their lives... BUT - our children are getting an excellent education - they are learning to think and they see these people of different values and they are learning to cherish their own.

I am so proud of the choices my teenage daughter makes today - and there were so many moments I dispaired that I would ever be able to impart our values to her when she was a "tween" -

She dresses very modestly but is still fashion forward - she is known as a trend setter at her school and yet she scorns the mall for shopping - and she has come to embrace the concept of a sale - I used to buy at the market in Dallas and ever since my mantra has been "never pay retail" - she makes her own money now babysitting and doing odd jobs - my son was selling pecans this year to augment his meager allowance to buy Christmas presents - and she fully embraces the NEVER PAY RETAIL way of life - she creates looks and makes beautiful one-of-a kind silk screen designs for her t-shirts. She makes certain that a substantial portion of her income goes to causes she cares about like the Savation Army and St Vincent de Paul - I watched her put $20.00 in the red bucket the other day and I knew she had only earned $30.00 from her last babysitting job.

She has decided to be confirmed as a Catholic and she is an apologist for her faith. Ironic, as getting her to church on Sunday and to Confirmation class and Youth Group is always such a struggle - but it is no trouble for her to get up every day in the summer to go to an inner city church to work with the kids on summer tutoring and poetry classes.

Don't dispair - the next generation has incredible people in it - even the "Bratz" girls are often thinking, feeling, giving, kind of people - I have seen this in the group of kids my daughter works with through her "Big Buddy" program of peotry writing and performing -

Many of the girls are living, breathing, speaking, "Bratz" - bling bling and sas - sey... Their normal mode of speach sounds totally ridiculous to my ear - but the poetry they create with the mentoring - they are growing out of being rapper wanna bes and are making some powerful poetry - learning to express their humanity.

There is much to hope for in this geneneration.>

I'm not a helicopter, Otto. But I really like your thinking and attitude.>

Watsy and Franklin, I think you're wrong. Women don't dress up for men. They dress up for women.

I think it starts with those damn dolls. LOL>

watsy,
Sorry for the delay, I was offline yesterday. Glad to hear you didn't let her watch the video - it wasn't clear from your post.

sigilaris,
The problem is that *I* can't change my fellow men - they have to change themselves. What I *can* do is myself "be the change I want to see", as they say, and raise my daughter with the necessary mental and emotional equipment to make wise and rational choices when her time comes.

Ultimately, whether my daughter plays with Bratz dolls or not, taken as a stand-alone decision point, probably wouldn't make much of a difference in the outcome of her life - but viewed as a part of our entire child-rearing pattern, I think it's important to the consistency of the whole.>

"sigilaris,
The problem is that *I* can't change my fellow men - they have to change themselves."

Respectfully, Franklin, I disagree. Men shape male culture. Whose responsibility is it, if not yours? If nothing else, recognizing male violence against women as a serious problem and speaking of it as such would help at least to some extent.

You say that you're trying to model good behavior, and I believe you. But I don't think that's enough. Isn't that kind of like a German saying "Well, I myself would never harm a Jew, but if the SS choose to beat them up, what am I supposed to do about it?" I'm sure most of the men here are well-intentioned and would never do anything to harm women overtly, but when one man does demean a woman, there are usually other men around who witness but do nothing. I'm just saying those guys need to start speaking up.

When I was walking to the library with my little sister, and a drunken man grabbed my arm and started trying to drag me into the bushes, it was broad daylight. There were men walking by, all around. Did any of them stop to extricate me from my predicament? Nope. When a kid high on acid at a party started beating up my sister, did the other boys step in and restrain him? No. I had to do that myself. When a corporate lawyer at my place of employment made a practice of harassing all the secretarial staff, did the other executives put a stop to his shameful behavior? No, they looked the other way because he was clever and popular. When degrading jokes are made about women, when vile innuendos are blogged about female politicians, when appearance is made the criterion for judgment of women who are public figures, do most of the men hanging around speak up and say, "Shut up! That's not funny!" Not too darn often, I'd say.

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. And I think it's just fine that you choose the toys at your house. I'm in favor of that. But when you talk about the multi-million dollar "beauty" industry and the harm it does women--and I agree with you there, too--I think of another multi-million dollar industry that has done women a lot more harm than Barbie ever will: the porn industry. You say that Barbie hurt women's self-estemm, "once they realized that Barbie is what men want." Huh?? It IS? All men? Really . . . I hadn't known that. Well, if true, how did that happen? It wasn't little boys who were indoctrinated by Barbie. I think they must have received their information elsewhere! I think it would be great if men who don't want Barbie organized a mass movement to say to porn producers, "You don't speak for us! That is not what we think of when we think of women!" I don't think you can say you can't change your fellow men till you've given it a good try.>

Franklin, my apologies for misquoting you. I see that it was Erik I should have addressed in responding to that comment.

Thank you for your kind response. It actually brought tears to my eyes, which I guess shows how uncommon it is for me to encounter a man who does what you do. Thank you for your efforts. I do understand your feeling that, try as you may, you can't make a dent! I can see from what you say that you really have tried. Me too--and I often beat myself up for not trying harder, so it's not as if I have the right to sit in judgment on others for a fault I don't admit to myself.

Thanks for clarifying your Barbie comment. You're right--the Barbie look is part of the endless barrage of propaganda to make girls feel they don't measure up. If you can't change the world outside, protecting your own as well as you can is also a good and noble endeavor. Good luck to your family.>

sigaliris, it's all good and all fodder for this excellent discussion. If I'd had a problem with your misattribution, I'd have worded my post differently. As I wrote, you make excellent challenges.

Erik, it's usually impossible to know if "now" is the right moment, but I have witnessed some distinct changes in people who observed someone like you or I do some lecturing or pounding. I guess I'm thinking we just have to be reconciled to not seeing larger changes in our lifetimes; but we shouldn't despair, we shouldn't give up letting our examples include getting ourselves into some trouble as a result. For some people, our investment is what gets them to decide to make a similar investment, because they finally realize that regardless of the local results, the investment is worth it.

Of course, my wife and children would be mortified if I were arrested... but that's a different story, eh? :)>

I have a mental image of the end of the American remake of "Godzilla" with Mathew Broderick. The wife of the TV cameraman (Hank Azaria) is watching the finale on TV in her home; she's cheering and clapping, sees him on the screen, and continuing her activity says, "That's my husband! I'm gonna kill him!"

:)>