The Spenglerian shrug
Monday February 5, 2007
Spengler says it's tragic what's happening in Iraq and the Palestinian territories, but ultimately unimportant to the broader world. Excerpt:I do not think any responsible analyst now believes that a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian issue has much bearing on stability...
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About Crunchy Con
Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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All quite Machiavellian. From this point of view it's kind of hard to find a position for responsible American foreign policy except as a spectator on the sidelines. Even the oil companies continue to profit as the Saudis and other Gulf states keep the tap open to ensure Western support against the instability of Iran Rising. I suppose a nuclear Iran might be the wild card in the deck, but the Israelis have historically trumped any threat to their monopoly in the region. There's no reason to expect that they will wait for an enfeebled Bush administration to do anything other than talk about doing something. (And given the Bush administration's record in these matters, who would want them to do anything in the first place?) So where is the interventionist argument? Why shouldn't we just sit back and enjoy the hegemony that comes from the instability in the "cradle of civilization"?
Maybe the problem is that Islamic architecture doesn't encourage the goal of people reaching their fullest potential living virtuously in community.
Well and eloquently stated, Bubba. Unfortunately, such elegant logic is beyond the cretins who believe that the idea that "Iraq was better off under Saddam" is a serious one.
I'm sure Spengler's dim view of most inhabitants of the Middle East would be reciprocated by same should they have the added misfortune of ever hearing of him. Unfortunately, I have, and I do.
You do know that "Spengler" is a old apparachik of the Lyndon LaRouche camp, right?
There is a point here. Often you hear people claim that Israel is the singular cause of all of the Middle Eastern problems. However, logically, one would assume that the entire Arab/Muslim world would united against Israel; instead, they continue to fight each other. If Israel magically vanished, yes, the Palestinians would have land---but the Muslim Palestinians would still try to kill the Christians, and the Sunnis and Shia would still be fighting in Iraq, and radicalism would probably still be rampant. That area's got a whole mess of other problems to deal with. God bless.
What are you having for lunch today? *That's* a question worth asking.
These are all reasons why we should just walk away from Iraq. Seize control of the oil fields -- after all, we ought to recompense ourselves for the losses we have incurred in trying to save the Iraqis from themselves -- but otherwise just walk away. Let them kill each other. It's what they want to do, so why should we get caught in the crossfire?
"Palestinian civil servant"=most thankless job ever
I agree with most of what Spengler has written. One way for the USA to remain strong and powerful is to go into foreign countries who aren't on our side, overthrow the government, and sit back and watch the "savages" engage in the civil war that always follows a power vacuum. If we think of the people as savages or rejectionist of our superior modernization, then hell, it's takes the accountability and responsibility off of our shoulders. Man, that essay made me feel big and superior and powerful? We should just squash them like little bugs and we would't feel a stinkin thing. Got to go get my BMW from the shop now. Maybe I'll just throw it out and buy me a new one. I'm kidding. It's my 10 year old Honda in the shop, but I'm feeling so big and powerful and rich, it's going to take more than a little car repair bill to ruin my day. Thanks, Spengler.
The people of Palestine lived in peace until after the Zionists came and forcibly took their land. They have every reason to be pissed off. As for why the Muslims continue to kill each other instead of uniting against the Israelis, well, we certainly do help to stir that pot, don't we? Bottom line, we are in this whole mess because of Israel. I think we should let Israel handle its own problems from here on out.
I agree with most of what Spengler has written. One way for the USA to remain strong and powerful is to go into foreign countries who aren't on our side, overthrow the government, and sit back and watch the "savages" engage in the civil war that always follows a power vacuum. I know you're trying to make a joke here, but it should be said that the civil war started among the Palestinians after the Americans pushed for democratic elections. That brought to power Hamas, and we were off to the races.
I wasn't talking about Israel, Rod. I was talking about Iraq. That's what we did in Iraq. I don't like Hamas. I think that it's rare for a group to acheive a goal with the kind of tactics used by Hamas. I think that we'd still be fighting in this country today if the African Americans had chosen the tactics of Hamas to gain civil rights. It doesn't endear people to your cause. However, I can understand why frustration would push the Palestinians to vote for Hamas. They were looking towards Hamas for effective change. I don't think that they factored in the reaction from the rest of the world when they cast their vote. The more chaos created in the Arab-Persian countries between each other, the safer Israel will be. When they all start to get along, the focus is going to change and the hatred will be directed towards Israel. Creating chaos might be effective in keeping us safe and rich, but I don't think that it should be promoted.
So much could be written to dispute this blame-the-culture (or religion)substitute for foreign policy. In fact, it has been written, but Spengler prefers the easier path of sifting the daily news through his own prejudices and calling it vision. This is no improvement over the hubris that got us into Iraq.
"I think that it's rare for a group to achieve a goal with the kind of tactics used by Hamas." I think they've given up on goals; now they just enjoy the killing. If they can't kill Jews, they'll kill each other. "I think that we'd still be fighting in this country today if the African Americans had chosen the tactics of Hamas to gain civil rights." Ironically, it was the whites who adopted Hamas' tactics over civil rights. And it hasn't done anyone any good here, either.
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