The sunny side of global warming
Light blogging for the next few days; I'm off early in the ayem to Anchorage, Alaska, where I'll be giving a talk at the university's student union on Thursday night (see the Anchorage paper's feature here). I won't be wearing...
THANK YOU! But now you are going to get it: the neo-Stalinist environmental thought police are going to be rather upset.
Rod in Anchorage in early March with no pants? Possibly more evidence for the truth of global warming, but definitely not a benefit.
Sure longer growing season, but significantly drier. Sure shorter winters, but more intense rains, which will do little to help irrigation and wash a lot of good soil away.
Another aspect of the process is that it will be a slow process. Slow changes allow humans the time to adapt to them. Rod mentioned sea walls: Such an approach could save most of the lowlands of Bangladesh. In Louisiana, we seen marked erosion of the Missisippi Delta, not from global warming, but from water projects that prevent flooding. Some fishing resorts from the fifties now are several miles from shore. Louisiana adapted to that, and we can adapt to global warming. Sorry doom and gloom mongers!
Yep, if the worst happens, my kids will inherit seaside property in St. Francisville. Which is over 100 miles inland, but still.
Aaron It's not likely to work that way globally. Precipitation patterns will likely shift and change regionally, which means some arid and semi-arid regions will benefit. Some will be able to irrigate less. Also, winter precipitation can be good for farming. The region of West Texas that I'm from has had such a wet winter that they are hoping for a bumper crop in wheat. Their biggest worry at the moment is a shortage of combines.
But 1. means that bugs (and to a lesser extent weed seeds) are not killed off over the winter, leading to a bumper crop of pests during 2. the extended growing season. This is not trivial either.
Nobody knows. But we will find out.
But we will find out. Now this is something that must be taken on faith. GW science is not exactly Newtonian mechanics.
You're coming to Alaska? Why didn't you say so? It's too late now. Stop by Fairbanks sometime. We're awesome.
Rod -- I'm a regular reader and fan but only a two time contributor to the blog. I lived in Anchorage for 7 1/2 years and elsewhere in Alaska for 5. Two unsolicited restaurant recommendations in Los Anchorage (as non-ANC Alaskans sometimes refer to it). For breakfast, Snow City Cafe downtown. For lunch or dinner, if circumstances permit, Jens' at Arctic and 36th. You don't know me, but trust me on these recommendations.
I'll offer a prayer that you get to see Denali from Anchorage, but even if you don't, the surrounding mountains are awesome enough, and only hint at the grandeur of the state. As a friend from an Alaska home group once said (having heard it from another fellow Christian): "If Genesis turns out to be literally true, and God created the world in six days, then on the seventh, when it says he rested, he went back into his shop, and made Alaska for himself." Safe travels, and blessings.
Here's the catch: When or if the line for agriculture migrates north in Canada and Siberia, we won't be able to take advantage of it. Why? Because environmentalists will go absolutely berserk the first time anyone proposes starting up a bulldozer to clear off any of that land. They'll scream about the destruction of wildlife habitat and boreal forests, and the starving children who could benefit from that extra food can just go to hell. We're overpopulated anyway, right?
Loved this post, Rod!
Great Republican talking points. Unfortunately, like most Republican talking points, a little real research shows thay are all lies. I've seen the e-mails you all circulate, and they're feeding you BS. Bon appetit!
dovid It might be nice if you could actually make an argument instead of squealing about Republicans and lies. How about some proof pal? Or is catastrophic problems from warming just an article of religious faith for you?
I think that it is interesting to talk about some of the good possibilities of global warming. I am enjoying the "southerning" climate in Maryland these past few years. We can start planting any day now! Two points, though. 1.) With warmer temps people are going to use up a lot more AC. AC puts out a ton of heat and sucks down a ton of energy. PLUS, it is so unhealthy to breath all that recirculated air all day. yuck. 2.) There is more than enough food on the planet. People don't starve because of a lack of food, but because of poor distribution, lack of access to food, government corruption, no money, etc.
Alaskan don't fear global warming! :) But we do wear pant and even SNOW pants in early March. See you tonight, Mr. Dreher!
If there were no national borders and no established interests/property claims this article might have some truth to it. Even given the best case scenario it presents, though, the polar movement of arable land and temperate zones means a massive migration of people. To take just one example, who exactly will settle and farm a newly warm Siberia? Likely the millions of Chinese and Indian peasants whose current farms are killed off by drier and warmer conditions in their already semi-arid regions. That kind of mass migration into a sparsely (to say the least) populated region, and one rich in mineral resources, is a powder keg. Of course there will be winners as well as losers--and, on a macro level global warming may even mean a net gain in resources--but even assuming a positive outcome, such massive change means great instability.
(Readers, just to clarify, don't assume that because I post something someone else has written, that I agree with it.)
I have a question. There was a warm period before, from about 800 AD to 1200 AD or so. The earth didn't end then; polar bears didn't all die off; the human race was not destroyed. Greenland was even, well, green. In fact, it seems like (politics and wars aside, for they are always with us) it was a pretty good time to live. So, what's the problem with global warming?
That doesn't even count such issues as.. Warm areas expanding means the greater chance of disease, as disease vectors like certain insects get a much broader range. Just because a new area becomes more arable doesn't mean we can take advantage of it. We tended to arrange ourselves based on the current arrangement. We left arable land alone, and built on and congregated in places that were not. And just because a place is warm doesn't make it good farm land. Rain forest is VERY warm, and very bad farm land. (Very little top soil, etc.)
Animal and plant cycles are based on the current seasons. We're already experiencing disruptions there, as plants that usually feed new young are now growing fruit too early, and the food isn't available when needed, for example.
All in all, alot of our prosperity is based on taking advantage of, and utilizing the current climate. Now, I'd say that 'ok, big deal, so we take a prosperity hit'. Except that people who don't want to change do so FOR reasons related to economics.
Well, if nothing is done, you ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to economic disruption. But, that requires actual forethought and the concept of delayed gratification. Paying little now to avoid paying big later. More than I'd expect from our current 'speculator/day trader' mindset in our economy.
Remember Vladimir Putin's comments on global warming? He said that those living in Siberia would no longer have to wear fur coats as the climate warms, so life will be dandy! And so if you are a fur-bearing mammal, you should lobby for more pulverized coal plants........thousands of them, in fact. Coal is the future! Let's aim for 10,000 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere, instead of just double or triple pre-industrial levels, and we can roast weenies on the tundra as it releases its last gasp of methane to the atmosphere (methane has 20 times the potency as a greenhouse gas as CO2, and the Far North is thawing rapidly right now and bubbling up lots of the stuff.........numerous studies on this one). Anyone have a cigarette? On the spiritual side, if we make this planet unsuitable for human life, doesn't Jesus come back to save believers? And the rest of us will burn in hell, thus raising global temperatures even more. Now that is a feedback loop worth advocating! Those of you who believe that global warming is not happening, or that is the result of "natural cycles" (as if temperatures in the Arctic have warmed 5-7 degrees in three decades in the past), or that thousands of scientists worldwide are involved in a worldwide conspiracy to fleece taxpayers from Indiana to Bangalore to get research funding (with the connivance of Al Gore) so they can retire in opulence on the dole, I suggest that you rent the old classic "Inherit the Wind." You'd fit in well in that town in Tennessee!
For the rest of us, who understand that 150,000,000 of the poorest of the poor in Bangladesh will find their nation largely underwater later this century (and that is just for starters), talk of the benefits of global warming amount to ignorance of science that is unfortunately all too typical of what many Americans believe currently. I suggest you monitor the world press (there are various websites that you can access for this purpose) if you want to know what an informed populace thinks. Where do you think the population of Bangladesh and other countries are going to go? Our founding fathers, educated men all who believed in reason and science, would be ashamed of us.
educated men all who believed in reason and science, would be ashamed of us They would indeed, ewoc, with posts yours:
For the rest of us, who understand that 150,000,000 of the poorest of the poor in Bangladesh will find their nation largely underwater later this century.
Wow. Such scientific knowledge! It's amazing because no trustworthy scientist would never claim this as a known fact. At best, it's a rough theory. How do you know so much about global warming that you can talk about it so confidently? I assume you have already debunked the findings of Robert Ehrlich (George Mason physics prof) who claims sun fluctuations may explain many temperature cycles of the last 5 million years? And of course, the thousands of other scientists with competing theories. Remember, the entire scientifc community (I used to work at a national lab) would sell their own mother for more research money. Global warming is the gift to scientists that keeps on giving. Serious bias here, like so much scientific research over the last 100 years that involves government money. You'll have to look at the data yourself to get a neutral view. This is not a simple science; the temperature data itself, not just theory, is in dispute. A non-scientific tidbit: about 50 miles from where I live, there is a glacier that is shrinking. They have wooden signs out that show what position it was at at any given time. Some of those signs go well into pre-industrial era, before humans were producing greenhouse gas. We have been warming for a long, long time - since the last ice age. This makes it difficult to pinpoint man's effect. PS - please note I have no opinion on man-induced global warming as IMO the data is inconclusive as of yet. I have no dog in this fight. But it kills me to see the scientific method slimed by ideological global warming Goremania. Soon nobody will trust real science, and I wouldn't blame them.
For the rest of us, who understand that 150,000,000 of the poorest of the poor in Bangladesh will find their nation largely underwater later this century... ewoc, where did you get this notion anyway? Are you just watching Al Gore videos? Most of the scare scenarios come from the IPCC. Their latest summary for policymakers says that there could be a 20 foot sea level rise from the Greenland ice sheets if the current warming trend continues for the next 1000 years. That's not the next century. I know Gore's docu-ganda shows lots of pictures of Manhattan underwater and other scary stuff, but even the largest international group on his side doesn't back that up. It always amuses me how the worst scaremongers here on this issue can't be bothered to read the actual data put out by their own side.
Sorry but global warming is real and induced by pollution. It use to be that the republican party took pride in environment protection. But has been high jacked by those who worship money. Even the Whitehouse has had to acknowledge the problem. There has been a serious chilling effect on scientist not to disclose the facts that they have found because it goes against Bush's agenda. Check out New Scientist magazine. And do some research on the Whitehouse's suppression of facts. Also some islands have already been covered over by water. The mark of a republican is they only cares about themself and how much can they get. Christians need to examine and see if that follows Jesus' teachings.
Read David Ignatius's column in the Washington Post today, folks. Co-written by Fareed Zakariah of Newsweek, it points out that environmental refugees from places like Bangladesh are highly likely in the not-too-distant future, and that we might want to think about what we are going to do about it. Some of you will doubtless assert that Zakariah is a mindless liberal blowhard with no scientific background............. As to my credentials, which are supposedly lacking or nonexistent, I have read the IPCC report, the Stern Report, and most if not all of the major scientific studies of the last few years. The IPCC works on a consensus basis, with representatives from Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the US, all of which have taken pains to blunt its conclusions (Harlan Watson, our representative at the Montreal talks on post-Kyoto, used to be a lobbyist for the coal industry - no conflict of interest there, nah! He didn't even want to discuss DISCUSSING carbon limits - I kid you not). This February's IPCC report did not consider recent field studies from Greenland on the rate of ice sheet melting, which has increased markedly in a few years). So the IPCC process produces an inherently conservative document, as many of its participants admitted to the media when the report was released. But it was scary enough, if you are familiar with what the impacts of a 4-6 degree F rise in temperature would mean. Try to tell me that permafrost is not melting in Alaska and Siberia, and that this is a "natural" process that happens every so often in the space of a few years. Talk to the Inuit about it - I think they know something about their backyards, having been there for awhile. If you believe this is natural variability in climate, I have some real estate to sell you - the fish are free! In addition, I know personally and professionally some of the top scientists at US and international research labs. They tell me that human-caused global warming is the major threat to our species this century, period. The field and satellite observations (and the short timeframe in which they have been observed, NOT 1000 years, but a few years) from the Arctic and Greenland should be enough to convince anyone with an open mind who is not wedded to a political ideology that we have a major problem on our hands that is largely of our own making.
The real problem in the US is that the issue has become exceptionally politically polarized. Explain to me why anyone should take Ann Coulter or Rush seriously on global warming (now that's scientific credibility for you!), but unfortunately they influence the thinking (if you can call it that) of millions of our compadres. This is not the case in the EU, much of Asia, and now even Australia, where Howard has been forced to backtrack in a major way recently and admit that warming is happening, and that it is linked to human activities. I have read much of what the sceptics have written over the years. Suffice it to say that their arguments have been discredited one by one, and that the funding sources of the majority (who could fit in a one-room schoolhouse, you know who I am talking about...) are quite clear by now, having been "outed" repeatedly. Even Exxon-Mobil has reconsidered their notorious campaign of disinformation! And when Bush is forced to admit publicly that global warming is happening, and that it is linked to human activities (not that the Administration is going to do anything about it during the remainder of his term), aren't we nearing the end of the line?
Doubtless there will be sceptics as the Greenland ice sheet melts and new beachfront property is created around the world, but I for one would prefer to see our policymakers arguing about other issues and working to change the mix of energy sources we rely on so that my six-year old doesn't have to live in a hellish world.
No one responded to my question about the last warm period, 800 to 1200 A.D. Do we know what happened then to polar bears, to the tundra, to the amount of land available for farming, etc. If we have been in such a warm time before, shouldn't that teach us something about what to expect?
They tell me that human-caused global warming is the major threat to our species this century, period. Any scientist that can claim this as fact is simply not a scientist. What they have are models, based on theories that are pretty much untested and certainly unproved. No real scientist that hasn't been bought and paid for would make such a claim. These "90%" claims are proof positive the scientists in question are political hacks. This is like predicting the weather; too much data, too many unknowns.
Of course with any change, climate or otherwise, there will be winners and losers. And I think it's generally accepted that the biggest losers in global warming are those in the Third World near the line, be it water or poverty. Here's a story about Bangladesh, which is already seeing big changes: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fg-warming21feb21,1,7326230.story When the head of climate analysis at NCAR, Kevin Trenberth, was asked in testimony before Congress two weeks ago to talk about global warming damages we're seeing already on the planet, he mentioned the subtropics in general, and Africa in particular: "Drought has become widespread in the subtropics. Parts of Africa have suffered greatly. Our understanding is building that part of this is associated with global warming. From the standpoint of Africa, maybe it's already too late."
The "subtropics" include Texas. As Rod mentioned in his column of a week or two ago, chances are good that the Southwest (including North Texas) will suffer substantially higher temps and 10-30% less rain. We are entering, according to Martin Hoerling of NOAA, a "new era of drought" because of global warming.
So yes, there are good things about global warming, but I doubt the wonderfulness of drought, in Texas and where I live in California. If you want to see more, take a look at this NOAA presentation from last winter, which shows that observed temps in the U.S. are already higher than the climate models predicted, esp in the Southwest: http://www.resourcesaver.com/ewebeditpro/items/O14F10014.pdf I could list a lot of other damaging effects: earlier snowmelt in the West, the devastating spread of the Mountain Pine Beetle, pathogens in Alaskan waters not seen before, bigger snowstorms in the East, and so on. But it's true that with global warming changes will come some good effects. Wine-making will be possible further north, for example, and to date has been good for the Napa Valley, although that is expected to change.
But what I rarely if ever see discussed on the right regarding global warming is the amount of harm to our land and our people we could avoid by reducing our emissions. An exciting example of this is in play in Texas, where the huge utility TXU has entered buy-out negotiations with Goldman, Sachs and other investment banks (who have on their own funded major anti-emissions programs costing millions) and enviro groups (eager to avoid the construction of enormous coal plants sure to pump vast amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere).
This is great news, and a great example of the adaptability of American business. Why aren't these innovators admired more? I don't know. I fear that many on the right so want to bash enviros and Al Gore that they won't act to preserve their climate, a strange and excessive version of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Here's the simple truth of the matter, as expressed before Congress by another prominent researcher, Gerald Meehl: "What we do makes a difference. If we go on a low emissions track, we get less warming. If we go on a high emissions track, we get more warming, and the longer we wait to do something, the worse the problem gets." Why not act now?
No real scientist that hasn't been bought and paid for would make such a claim. These "90%" claims are proof positive the scientists in question are political hacks. This is like predicting the weather; too much data, too many unknowns. The overwhelming majority of climate scientists have been "bought and paid for" and are "political hacks"? Mmm-hmm.
The littlest bit of global warming will wreck my local ski area. And, no local ski area, no skiing for me; I can't afford to travel to ski. It does seem that winters are warmer than I remember but I have no idea if there is global warming going on or not, or if it is part of a natural cycle or affected by us, or both. I have observed that certain people treat this issue as one requiring doctrinal adherence as a moral requirement, which is not a scientific attitude. Have you heard the phrase "global warming denial?"
I find myself confused by the conflicting voices on this subject. I am generally in favor of trying not to damage our natural environment, always remembering that the immediate needs of human beings also have some claim. I suspect businesses can find ways to be profitable under various forms of regulation, and that some governmental regulatory and tax manipulations could force them into finding ecofriendly ways to be profitable. However I don't think it is easy to know how to design these manipulations, and treating one scientific theory like a religious doctrine is not the way to do it. Susan F. Peterson
Rich, "It might be nice if you could actually make an argument instead of squealing about Republicans and lies. How about some proof pal?" I wasn't squealing, I was gloating. There isn't enough space here or on the whole Net to publish enough proof to convince you and your ilk of what you choose to ignore. When even BUSH admits it's true, you have to be very determined to be ignorant.
Looking at the snow outside my window, I want my global warming and I want it now and Texas can turn into a desert for all I care.
To make light of this issue is simply unintelligent. Clearly, humans face a serious problem with global warming; of this there is no doubt. The changes to the ocean currents alone could spell disaster.
Again, I challenge any or all of those sceptics who are reading this to provide an explanation for what we are seeing in the Arctic and Greenland right now - the rapid melting of the permafrost (releasing methane); the rapid melting of the Greenland ice sheet (rate of melting more than doubling in a few years); the massive shrinkage of summer sea ice in the Arctic (this is observable from satellites - you can see the photos on the Web, and the evidence is undeniable, unless you subscribe to the theory that it is all a grand govt conspiracy, kinda like the folks who say we did not land men on the moon...); the observations of the Inuit, who have lived in the Arctic for thousands of years, etc. etc. Or are the Inuit on the Gore payroll too? The IPCC (several thousand scientists from around the world, who if you believe some of the posts are involved in an incredibly well-organized combination scam and conspiracy) considered the sunspot theory and rejected it. I will take their conclusions over Patrick Michael's at U of V any day of the week. If I am not mistaken, he quoted his wife as a scientific "source" in a paper without revealing they were married! He is one of the most frequently quoted sceptics. Now that's objectivity for you! I am frankly amazed at the lengths to which people will go to rationalize the overwhelming volume of evidence that is out there (ice core studies, global temperature monitoring stations, atmospheric CO2 readings, ad nauseum), esp when the noise from the sceptics represents an echo chamber of a handful of hacks with grants from Exxon for all to see. Talk about transparency!
And anyone who thinks 'Global Warming' means that there will, especially in the beginning, be no snow at all, hasn't done much to research the issue. Indeed, it means a lot more extreme weather. Including extreme snow falls. Weather becomes alot less stable, predictable.
From the usual round of 'Light snow in December, cold and some snow in January. February very cold, snowy', etc.. What you get instead is a brown Christmas, 40 degree weather in January and February, a cold snap clos to MARCH, and 13 inch snows not in the middle of winter, but near when it should be spring, followed immediately by 40 degree days.
Apologies, folks. The global warming sceptic who cited to his wife without mentioning that they were related was Dr. Fred Singer, not Patrick Michael. My memory was faulty.
Several years ago, Singer cited to a supposed article in Science magazine for the proposition that glaciers were advancing globally, rather than retreating (anyone who follows the literature knows the truth of this one). The assertion was picked up by a number of prominent sceptics, including the author Michael Crichton, and cited as authoritative. (BTW, it was also picked up by Lyndon Larouche's magazine. Remember him? He's out of jail now). When a European journalist attempted to follow up on the source material he found that there was no such article in the magazine. He contacted Singer, who blamed the mistake on a "former research associate," without mentioning that that person was in fact his wife. He then went on to say that the mistake had been corrected. Lo and behold! A year later, the same assertion was still on his website. No word on the state of his marriage........But this is the kind of "evidence" that the echo chamber relies on. "Nuff said. Happy to provide the cites for my statements if you wish.
MER: You keep insisting incorrectly that there was a warm period between 800 and 1200 A.D. This is a myth. Here's the real science: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/werent-temperatures-warmer-during-the-medieval-warm-period-than-they-are-today/ So as to your question: "If we have been in such a warm time before, shouldn't that teach us something about what to expect?" We have never been in such a warm time before. Incorrect hypothesis leads to incorrect conclusion.
ewoc The IPCC worst-case sea level rise from the new summary is 17 inches. Your argument is that current field studies suggest that Greenland-based melting is far worse than IPCC projections. Well, the new figures suggest Greenland is losing about 57 cubic miles of ice per year out of a total ice pack of 630,000 cubic miles. This would increase sea levels by about half a millimeter a year. Your "Bangladesh underwater" statements are grossly irresponsibile fear-mongering.
We have never been in such a warm time before. You're wrong AlexP. The earth has been up to 9C warmer in the past. Current CO2 levels are about 350 ppm but have been as high as 2000 ppm. If you mean since modern humans arrived, then you may have a point. But you didn't say that.
OK Rich, I exxagerated - we're talking about 100 million Bangladeshis, not 150 million. That is very comforting, no doubt. My comments referred to "later this century." I was referring to the BAU (business as usual) scenario, which involves increasing reliance on dirty coal (w/out carbon capture and storage technology, which as of this moment has not been demonstrated on any significant scale, certainly not economically) as the primary (baseload) energy source for the major industrial powers, including the US, China, and India. My comments (and the forecast, which is shared by numerous US and foreign climatologists - see Jim Hansen's comments earlier this week) also assume continuing strong economic growth in the developing world. There is no sign yet that this outcome (rapidly increasing emissions) is not likely, but of course changes in policy could result in different outcomes. While the TXU deal the other day is good news, the news out of China is not so good (one new coal plant built every week), and numerous other US utilities are still planning many dirty coal plants. Our current Administration is doing less than nothing to avoid that outcome, as should be evident from their choice to lead the climate talks I already mentioned. As you appear not to know, current CO2 levels are 382 ppm (last year's readings), and the rate of increase has itself gone up sharply during the current decade over that of the 1990s. In the BAU (business as usual) scenario, we exceed what many scientists regard as a critical threshold of CO2 in the atmosphere, which is in the range of 450-500 ppm, before mid-century, perhaps even earlier depending on a number of factors. And these estimates do not incorporate the emissions contribution from feedback loops such as methane from melting/decaying permafrost, even thoug field observations suggest they are already happening. Nor do they consider the fact that carbon sinks, including soils and the oceans, become less and less effective until they either no longer function as sinks, or even become carbon sources (see, e.g. Geophysical Research Letters, publication in 2003, predicting that by 2040 soils will begin to emit, rather than absorb, carbon). The Met Office (Hadley Center) in the UK, not restricted by a consensus process like the IPCC, convened a conference of climate experts several years ago which warned that exceeding the threshold of a 2 degree C warming (with the current level of .6 degrees as a baseline), would lead to the "onset of complete melting of the Greenland ice sheet." If I sounded like I was predicting that Bangladesh will be underwater no matter what choices we make, I stand corrected - by my own hand. I believe that outcome is avoidable, if we make the smart (and in some cases tough) choices right now. But if we continue to argue about it for the next few decades, I believe we will all regret wasting our breath. Certainly painting this issue as Al Gore vs. the right wing misses the point entirely. Just today, the Tories in the UK bitterly criticized the Bush Administration for its intransigence on global warming. What does that tell us about the rest of the world's views?
Rich, To continue, your comments assume a linear progression of ice sheet melting. That's the only way you can reach the conclusion you do. However, the rate of observed melting doubled in a few years, so the figures you cite for total volume loss will likely be obsolete by the time the next series of field observations comes in later this year. I predict (and I hope I am wrong, believe me) that the rate of increase will continue to grow. Double the loss of ice volume every few years and you get a mighty big number, as I am sure you realize. The field observations suggest that we are seeing the area below the ice sheet being lubricated by meltwater that permeates through cracks in the sheet itself, and that speeds the melting process much more than scientists assumed was possible even a few years ago. The lowest coefficient of friction in nature, as I recall from a science classs some years ago, is wet ice sliding over wet ice. The result is a melting trend that accelerates over time as atmospheric temperatures warm (as they are in the Arctic and Greenland, much more rapidly than further south, as the IPCC report noted). That's why field researchers in Greenland are saying that they are observing trends they thought would not be happening for thousands of years. IF the Greenland ice sheet melts completely, it would add 20 feet to the current sea level. At melting substantially below this, much of Bangladesh (millions of people live around the delta, at sea level essentially, and hundreds of thousands live on islands in that delta) would either be under water or would be inundated during storms (which are also predicted to increase in intensity as the world's oceans warm, which is happening right now). So the idea that my statement represents "grossly irresponsible fear mongering" ignores what many scientists say is not only possible, but increasingly likely with a BAU scenario. If those you label as "fearmongers" turn out to be more right than wrong in the next few years, which side will appear irresponsible to the next generation?
ewoc Ahh, OK. Skeptical scientists who disagree with IPCC estimates are "hacks with grants from Exxon", but alarmist scientists who disagree with IPCC estimates are "not restricted by a consensus process". I just didn't understand the rules. Thanks for clearing that up.
Two other points. First, you spend a paragraph on coal. What is your stance on nuclear power? That's the quickest litmus test to tell how serious someone is about carbon emissions. You mentioned China and India's growing power usage. (I've seen it firsthand in India). What's your position on a massive expansion of nuclear power use by those countries? Second, let's go back to Greenland. You fault me for assuming a linear progression of ice sheet melting while you are assuming an exponential progression. The field studies you referenced suggest that the annual melting rate for the Greenland ice sheet has doubled in the last decade. For the Greenland ice sheet to melt in this century, the loss rate would have to double every ten years for the entire century. Think about that. Melting would occur at 114 cubic miles annually in ten years. But in another 10 years it would be 228 cubic miles, then 456, 912, 1824, 3648, 7296, 14592..... That's the type of progression that has to occur to melt the Greenland sheet in the next century. Those are the actual numbers you have to hit to melt the Greenland sheet. I've tried in vain to find where the Hadley Centre says that a 2 deg C increase will cause that kind of progression. Wanna help me out?
Rod Dreher: The overwhelming majority of climate scientists have been "bought and paid for" and are "political hacks"? Mmm-hmm. First, the "overwhelming majority" did not make the 90% claim, which is who I'm talking about. You are pulling me out of context. If you were to get each individual climate scientist alone and make them bet their own money on this prediction, you would get a very small amount. Second, the vast majority of self-proclaimed "climate scientists" don't have all the tools necessary to give a 90% number. They lack the training in physics, statistics, astrophysics, and chemistry to make the claim. Third, all are indeed comprimised by funding desires. And yes, I would argue that scientists will indeed let things slide to get funding. It's their living. I've personally seen it; I've worked in that environment. And what in the world is a "climate scientist" anyway? Who makes the dividing cut? I think some 10,000 scientists have signed a petition against the man-made GW claim. This is a brand new science that exists pretty much to get funding for global warming research. Guess what the results will be. As a journalist, you must know how political these 90% pronouncents are. Go read about how this number came to be, and who was silenced and about all the internal fighting. This is politics, not science. Finally, what exactly does the 90% claim mean? That man has some warming effect? Sure, nobody doubts that, he also has some effect on gravity. The question is if he has a serious effect, and can one prove it. And anyone making a 90% claim to this effect is proof that they aren't good scientists - too coomplex, too much questionable data, too many other possiblilities, too young of a science. Make the 90% claim, and you are a hack. (BTW, I am not pro or con on man-made GW one way or the other based on the current data. You should be too until you study the data with a sceptical eye.)
AlexP, I was not insisting, just asking questions. Thanks for responding in a helpful fashion. Apparently the MWP is a myth that needs to be reeled in.
The cite you requested: Meterorological Office, International Symposium on the Stabilisation of Greenhouse Gases: Table of Impacts (Hadley Center, Exeter, 2005), Table 3 (Major Impacts of of Climate Change on the Earth System). You might also want to analyse the Geophysical Research Letters, Volume 30, which contains an article on carbon cycle feedbacks, aerosols, and CO2 levels. It suggests that we could reach problematic levels of carbon in the atmosphere (in terms of polar melt, etc) well before mid-century. Remember, CO2 is additive in the atmosphere, takes up to 100 years to dissipate, and takes up to 20 years to get to its destination (depending on the source), so all of the greenhouse gases from the last decade of US and global economic activity (we still produce 25% of the greenhouse gases for 5% of the world's population, as I am sure you know) are not even in play yet.
As to my feelings re: nuclear power, I have (reluctantly) had to admit that increasing its use will be necessary to avoid the worst outcomes from global warming , even though: 1) the issues of proliferation and waste disposal remain as serious problems, and 2) I have never seen an adequate life-cycle energy analysis of mining, processing and transporting uranium in terms of its carbon impact. Seems likely it is much less than some other forms of energy, but it would be nice to see an objective analysis, since each stage uses fossil fuels until processing, which in theory anyway could be located at a central plant powered by hydro (not Hanford again, please!) or other non-carbon sources. In addition, massive increases in nuclear power on the order of what you suggest would result in rapid depletion of known reserves.
I agree with Robert Sokolow (Princeton) and his take on "wedges" of carbon reduction (no cite at this moment, unfortunately). He argues that all (or almost all, with the exception of carbon capture and storage on a wide scale) of the technologies needed to reduce carbon impacts substantially by mid-century exist right now, and that we must make the commitment to carbon reductions while the cost is low enough that it will not affect global living standards unduly (esp. for the developing world, which is the equity/justice issue to trump all others). He places nuclear squarely where it belongs, in my opinion, as one element of the mix. We can get a much bigger bang for the short term buck with a serious effort at conservation (i.e. negawatts, a la Amory Lovins, it works...) but ultimately we will need more non-carbon baseload. BTW, you make it seem as if I am one of the few to be concerned about climate change at this level of amplitude. Did you read Elizabeth Kohlbert's book? She interviewed dozens of key climatologists, and pointed out that although scientists are typically pretty calm about risk (i.e. they mostly agree that the risks of nuclear power are overblown), leading climate scientists (as well as marine researchers re: ocean acidification, but that is another story) are, to put it mildly, more than a little freaked out about where we are headed. Again, although your political perspective may make you less receptive to this line of thinking, I am not making this stuff up.
FYI, I am in the wine business on the West Coast, though my background is in environmental law. The National Academy of Sciences issued a study last summer that predicted a BAU scenario would mean the end of my line of work well before century's end, as temperatures get way too hot for winegrapes. As in, 60 days per season above 95 degrees. Ever been in New Delhi? Try it on steroids! While I don't expect you (or anyone) to be particularly concerned with the future of the US wine biz, the forecast did come from an authoritative source, and anyone who thinks that kind of temp increase (magnified at the poles) is "manageable" by our species is, in my opinion, somewhat delusional. Nuff energy (no pun intended) spent on this stuff. Time to get out with the boy.
RIch,
A parting bit, a news summary of an on-point study from the National Center from Atmospheric Research released late last year: Source: Copyright 2006, Reuters Date: December 12, 2006 Original URL
Global warming could leave the the Arctic without ice during the northern summer as early as 2040, a study by a team of scientists shows. The research, to be published by the scientific journal Geophysical Research Letters tomorrow, found that the extent of sea ice each September could be reduced so abruptly that, within about 20 years, it may begin retreating four times faster than at any time in the observed record. "We have already witnessed major losses in sea ice, but our research suggests that the decrease over the next few decades could be far more dramatic than anything that has happened so far," said lead researcher Marika Holland from the US National Centre for Atmospheric Research. "These changes are surprisingly rapid," Holland said in a statement today. The study indicated that if greenhouse gases continued to build up at the current rate, the Arctic's future ice cover would go through periods of relative stability, followed by abrupt retreat as the Arctic Ocean warms. In one model simulation, the September ice shrinks from about 6 million square kilometres to two million square kilometres in a 10-year period. By 2040, only a small amount of perennial sea ice would remain along the north coasts of Greenland and Canada, while most of the Arctic basin would be ice-free in September. The winter ice also thins from about 3.7 metres thick to less than one metre. "As the ice retreats, the ocean transports more heat to the Arctic and the open water absorbs more sunlight, further accelerating the rate of warming and leading to the loss of more ice," Holland said. The study was jointly conducted by NCAR, the University of Washington and Montreal's McGill University. I'm sure that you (or others) will criticize this study b/c it was a simulation (i.e. the usual criticisms of computer modeling), but it fits the field observations pretty closely, and how the heck else are we supposed to study complex systems like this? And note that the study assumes GFGs continue to build at their current rate, while all forecasts I have seen show BAU emissions rising sharply. That, to me, is reason enough for action.
ewoc Thanks for the references. I'll study those and I will read Kohlbert's book as well. Incidentally, I have been in New Delhi a few times, including once in May when it was 110F. Even for a native Texan like me it was a bit much. My 9-month old is trying to bite my foot, so it looks like my boy is drawing me away too.
As a scientist who works in this area, I actually think there are a couple of good points in the original post. 1. Global warming will produce winners and losers. The issue the post doesn't address is one of equity- how should the winners compensate the losers? This is a non-trivial problem. 2. Adaptation, mitigation, sequestration and emissions reduction are all morally justifiable ways of dealing with increasing greenhouse gasses.
A couple of things I disagree with. 1. Global cooling is the problem we should worry about. There is increasing evidence that we're actually in a fairly long interglacial period, as has happened once before in the past 500,000 years. In the long term I agree with the poster, but actually the problem with global warming is that we're blowing off one of our main ways of dealing with future global cooling. 2.Warming leads to less energy use. Given that much of the global population is in the tropics- and would love to have the use of air-conditioning, this isn't necessarily true.
i'm confused, rod. who wrote the original post and what DO you think of global warming?
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