Who are we?

The fact that people say that sex before marriage is wrong and that that many still do it, only shows that we all struggle with sin.

"30 percent of Americans think gays shouldn't even be allowed to teach college?" Why does this surprise you Rod? Isn't 30% pretty close to the "Religious Right" in America? Does it not reveal their power and infuence over the thinking process in America? (Hint: They're agin' it.) "Man. I would have thought it was something like 10 percent" Now THAT surprises ME, Rod. I thought you were more attuned to the realities of America. One can still be legally fired in 33 States just for being gay. How hard do you think it is for an openly gay person even to get that college teaching job in the first place? "and even 34 years ago, the idea that a majority of people opposed gays teaching in college is startling to me, and disturbing." Why should it "disturb" you, Rod? You used to belong to a very powerful, influential religion that presupposes the very 'sinfulness' and 'disorderedness' of gay people, despite its alleged "love the sinner" message. Yes, it is (sometimes) couched in terms of homosexual acts, but people, being human, far too often fail to make that distinction. And your former religion is not alone. (I presume the Orthodox Church doesn't look too kindly on queer folk either.) But when you add the power and influence of the rightwing evangelicals like Falsewell, Robertson, Swaggart, Dobson, Perkins, et al, well, like I said, it surprises me that you are "startled" and "disturbed" by these statistics. They reflect all too well the harsh reality of life in America for God's gay and lesbian children. They don't want us to hold jobs, get apartments, keep our kids, and heck, some of 'em want us dead. (Pace matt Sheppard, Gwen Araujo, Aaron Webster, and that poor 72 year old guy in Michigan last week.) May I humbly suggest you take your head out of the sand, Rod?

Simon, "I recall seeing a Mori poll no more than 5 years ago showing that over 40% of the British public believed that homosexual behavior should be a criminal offense in ALL cases." I just googled Mori polls and homosexuality and found nothing that even remotely backs up your claim. Please provide a link so that I can at least know where you get your source material. The closest thing I DID find was a 2006 MORI poll in Ireland which showed: "that three-quarters of the population in the North say they are tolerant of gay men, lesbians and bisexuals and 88 per cent believe there should be no discrimination against them. Although those surveyed think the North is still intolerant towards sexual minorities, their own attitudes challenge that perception. While 59 per cent said they considered the North 'either not very or not at all accepting' of lesbians, gay men and bisexuals, only 21 per cent of the same people hold such views themselves. The largest concentration of homophobic attitudes remains in the Protestant Evangelical community. Fourteen per cent of Protestants said they were 'not at all accepting' of the gay community - almost exactly the same percentage of Protestants who say they are Evangelical Christians in repeated public surveys. Catholics, despite papal encyclicals describing homosexuality as 'evil', were more tolerant of the gay community than Protestants. Eighty-three per cent of Catholics said they were 'very accepting' of gays, lesbians and bisexuals compared with 70 per cent of Protestants." link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,,1833593,00.html But this thread is about religious attitudes in Amerika. "It's profoundly naive to equate hostility to homosexuals as persons with religious practice." It most definitely is NOT "naive". Have you not heard of Falsewell's infamous "Declaration of War" against gays? I still have a copy of it. Have you not heard what Dobson, Robertson, Perkins, etc. SAY about gay people? Do you not think they have a modicum of influence? Heck, even the now disgraced "Reverend" Ted Haggart was a 'special advisor' to the White House. Methinks it is YOU who is naive. "It IS possible to hate the sin and really love the sinner -- that, in fact, is arguably the very essence of Christianity." It is indeed the essence of what Christianity is SUPPOSED to be about. Too bad so many can't sort out the difference and that so many of the "sinners" are the ones who get bashed. It MAY be possible, but in practice is rarely seen. "I've known or dealt with a TON of guys over the years who weren't religiously inclined in the least -- but who absolutely cannot stand gays. How do you explain that?" Easy. They're bigots. I know a TON of people who aren't religiously inclined in the least who absolutely cannot stand black people. Same difference. Hate is hate; injustice is injustice.