"And over all the years every up, my father has been there to say how splendid (and how deserved) was this particular up; and for every down, he has been there to say how splendid (though not at all deserved)...
FYI, Rod, I posted what is in all probability my last comment about soul competency. And if I may take a moment to step away from this single post and look at the bigger picture, it seems to me that, while you are writing a lot about the Middle East... - Here, marking the four-year anniversary of Kelly's death in Iraq. - The story about Matthew Dowd's recent criticism of Bush and the war in Iraq. - A column for the Dallas Morning News, writing that the National Guard is in trouble, implying that we ought to support them by retreating from Iraq and (whaddya know) raising taxes even though federal revenue for 2006 was apparently over $200,000,000,000. - A column stating the values of classical liberalism aren't universally affirmed. ...you've written absolutely nothing about what I believe are the three biggest stories of the day: Iran kidnapping British sailors, Congress trying to impose a timetable for retreat, and early signs that the surge is producing some success. You write about the new mosque in Clitheroe, England, but not the English sailors held captive in Iran, and that's just odd. Your most recent syndicated column asserts that "dreams of building a neoliberal Arab Utopia are dying in the back alleys of Baghdad," which -- beyond being unfair for the "utopia" comment, which was never a goal -- is written as if events on the ground have not changed a bit since November, even though they clearly have. You've called Iraq a "meat grinder" in which all hope has long since been lost and even supported the Democrats in November, but you're not saying anything about the efforts to wrest control of this war from the Commander in Chief. If someone read your blog as his only source of news, he'd think the most important thing going on around Capitol Hill is the minor controversy surrounding the Attorney General. And, you regurgitate a rumor that the US will attack Iran by April, but haven't written a thing about Iran's most recent act of aggression. It is your blog and you're free to write whatever you want, but I don't quite understand how these big stories aren't being commented on, considering how much you have written and continue to write about the West's fight with jihad.
Joel
April 3, 2007 7:51 PM
HASH(0x93696e4)
Bubba, Volokh has a couple times responded to commentors like you, to wit - It's his blog, he does it because he enjoys it, he will write about whatever he damned well pleases, and if you don't like it go somewhere else. (Being Volokh, he is naturally more diplomatic than my summation here.) But there are other reasons why a blogger might choose not to comment on a big story: 1) Every other blog in the world is commenting on it, and he feels that he has nothing to add; 2) Every other blog in the world is commenting on it, and he is tired of hearing about it (or feels that his readers are probably tired of hearing about it); 3) The story hinges on issues that he feels are outside his expertise; 4) He just wants to write about something else. Bottom line, Bubba: a blog isn't a newspaper. Stop treating it like one.
Bubba
April 3, 2007 8:25 PM
HASH(0x9369a20)
Like I already said to Rod, "It is your blog and you're free to write whatever you want." You're telling me nothing I don't already know, and you too can read other things if you don't like my wondering the obvious.
Joel
April 3, 2007 10:04 PM
HASH(0x936d600)
But everything else that you wrote contradicted your bolded sentence. Forgive me for reading your entire post, and not just the one CYA sentence. Why do I bother? Because smacking down idiots is the reason that God gave us internet discussion boards. I will not shirk my responsibility.
Bubba
April 3, 2007 10:22 PM
HASH(0x936eef0)
Rod can write whatever he wants: I can and often do criticize that which I find deserves criticism. The two concepts are not contradictory, Joel, and I would hope that you would consider coupling your responsibility of smacking down idiots with something resembling the ability to think rationally.
~tv
April 3, 2007 10:40 PM
HASH(0x936df1c)
Why do I bother? Because smacking down idiots is the reason that God gave us internet discussion boards. I will not shirk my responsibility. Heh - pwnt.
Bubba
April 4, 2007 12:13 AM
HASH(0x9d587c4)
Only if one confuses vitriol for an actual point, tv.
Joel
April 4, 2007 12:32 AM
HASH(0x9372cb4)
Bubba, your initial posting here is classic propaganda: clearly (and at length) expressing one opinion while leaving yourself an out by which you can claim to have said the opposite. Not gonna fall for the CYA sentence. Nope.
Bubba
April 4, 2007 1:06 AM
HASH(0x9372a2c)
Joel, "it is strange that you haven't written about X" and "you're free to write about whatever you want" are NOT contradictory ideas.
Rod Dreher
April 4, 2007 1:32 AM
HASH(0x9373788)
The Tao of Bubba is a sublime thing.
Bubba
April 4, 2007 2:10 AM
HASH(0x937534c)
Thanks: maybe you could write a whole blog entry about me. It could be yet another topic to pass the time while you're avoiding more important issues.
Rod Dreher
April 4, 2007 2:52 AM
HASH(0x9378848)
If you don't like what I blog about, start your own blog and/or quit reading this one. Why torture yourself, and everybody else?
harvey lacey
April 4, 2007 3:06 AM
http://www.harveylacey.com
It is sad that a celebration of two lives, father and son, is descerated by petty bickering of the political kind. The description of the father by the son ranks right up with the wonderful one that Steve Blow occasionally runs about his own father on Father's Day. I wouldn't want to compare the writing skills nor the talent. But I do love the description of the father as bigger than life in life. Kelly with his concept of the father as the rock that anchors the family. Blow with his image of a boy in a crowd feeling secure because he can see his father's mane not unlike a battle banner in a charge. I personally see a need to teach fathers that it's as important what they are as it is who they are, maybe more so.
harvey lacey
April 4, 2007 3:10 AM
http://www.harveylacey.com
Double doggone darn, missed the edit button, "desecrated" not "descerated". Spelling is to Rod what plumb is to me.
Rod Dreher
April 4, 2007 3:41 AM
HASH(0x937a0f0)
Well, you might not have done the spelling right, Harvey, but you're right about what a shame it is that Bubba's obsession may have discouraged reflections about Michael Kelly's love for his father. It can be a violation of Bnet's Rules of Conduct to post off-topic. I wish I had just deleted his post. I will in the future.
harvey lacey
April 4, 2007 2:32 PM
http://www.harveylacey.com
I read Kelly's piece again. If I had any short term memory left I'd have it memorized by now. It defines some principles of fatherhood that I attempt in my own small way to follow. I also try to pass them on to new fathers if given half of an opportunity. One would be that children learn how to address situations by the examples set by their parents. This came home to me the other night when a tornado brushed the home my youngest daughter and her family were visiting. One moment they were in a storm visiting and the next the roof opened up and the storm was roaring inside the house. One of the greatest blessings a man can have is a daughter that loves and respects him. My daughter is a daddy's girl. When she called to tell her dad all about it afterwards she broke into tears. I had to shift from concerned parent into superdad mode and tell her to cowgirl up because the two kids watching her were learning how to handle such a situation by watching their mother. They needed to learn by her example what cool under fire was, well, cool. I see fatherhood as the most important job a man has to do in his lifetime. It starts by reviewing the life lessons they've learned growing up from fathers, even those not their own. Evaluate those lessons attempting to understand not only the lesson, but how it was delivered. I see the understanding the how as being as important as comprehending the what. The reasoning behind the importance of the how is our responsibility to duplicate it as closely as possible so that it will affect the next generation the same way it's affected us. I once read or heard a quote about Ted Williams. A cohort in crime of his once said he, Ted, never forgot for a second that he was Ted Williams and acted accordingly. The inescapable truth of the matter is we as fathers provide examples of behavior. Our children and others learn from us. Sometimes they learn how not to act by the way we act. Kelly's words define how us being us while maintaining that us is dad and what we do and how we do it lives on and on and on and on......
harvey lacey
April 4, 2007 2:39 PM
http://www.harveylacey.com
Bubba, has Rod blocked your e-mail access to him? Your complaints appear to me to be along the line of man to man stuff. And you're handling like it's woman to man stuff. Nothing against the girls, but men in my world when they have a problem with a man generally do it heads up without the grandstanding you're exibiting. I personally hope that Rod doesn't delete your comments. As I've pointed out, sometimes our examples of how not to act is by how we act. Your choosing this particular important thread to wage your unimportant personal vendetta against Rod reflects poorly upon you more than it does Rod. Is that what you want?
Amy in Tennessee
April 4, 2007 3:52 PM
HASH(0x937f2f8)
As I read this peace, tears came to my eyes as I laughed aloud. This is totally my mother-in-law. The reason my husband has been so successful, can solve any problem and is respected by all who know him is because of his mother's unfailing belief in him. When I married my husband, it would drive my sarcastic soul crazy at how positive she would be in all circumstances. Now it is my plea to God that I could come even close to making my children search for solutions to problems that arise. I hope it is not too late to convince them that they can do all things.
Bubba
April 4, 2007 4:46 PM
HASH(0x9381c0c)
(If Rod's going to delete my subsequent comments, I would appreciate his not letting stand Harvey's insulting me, either.)
harvey lacey
April 4, 2007 5:00 PM
http://www.harveylacey.com
(If Rod's going to delete my subsequent comments, I would appreciate his not letting stand Harvey's insulting me, either.) Bubba Hmmmm, I thought my comments were more of a plea than an insult. I guess that's what they mean when they talk about perspective.
Pauli
April 4, 2007 5:00 PM
http://contrapauli.blogspot.com
My main problem with Bubba, who is a friend of mine, is how much energy he expends arguing with Rod. I'll summarize what he is arguing and demonstrating: Rod's blog is politically irrelevant. I continually to be intrigued by a few of the posts here and a great deal of the heated combox discussions in a Dian Fossey sort of way. But basically the views expressed represent just one more tide pool off the Andrew Sullivan Atlantic ocean of a new, burgeoning business: conservative self-loathing.
Rod Dreher
April 4, 2007 5:25 PM
HASH(0x938486c)
It's called self-examination and self-criticism, but whatever. The problem with this administration and so many of its supporters is that they have become total ideologues. The total ideologue cannot see life outside of politics, and more, lives by the Leninist dictum that whatever advances ideological victory is Good, and whatever doesn't is Bad. If that's your thing, fine, there are blogs for your sort of person. This isn't one of them.
Bubba
April 4, 2007 5:49 PM
HASH(0x9386f88)
Those are some bold assertions, Rod, saying that others cannot see life outside of politics when you've written a book premised on the notion that mainstream conservatives aren't true conservatives because of how they live. To say that many of Bush's supporters are total idealogues ignores the substantial, long-lived disagreements many of us have had with this administration. This seems like a rehash of the canard that conservative pundits didn't criticize Bush prior to late 2005: when I demonstrated the utter bankruptcy of that claim, you clammed up, perhaps because you can't handle evidence that undermines your narrative of being a lone voice of reason and dissent within unthinking, monolithic conservatism. And to object to the charge of loathing your fellow conservatives while simultaneously invoking Lenin... that takes some nerve.
harvey lacey
April 5, 2007 4:06 AM
http://www.harveylacey.com
When I married my husband, it would drive my sarcastic soul crazy at how positive she would be in all circumstances. Now it is my plea to God that I could come even close to making my children search for solutions to problems that arise. I hope it is not too late to convince them that they can do all things. Amy in Tennessee Amy your words came to mind this evening as a best friend and myself talked about friends and family. He said, "one of the wonderful things about my first twenty years with my wife was knowing her father. He was a great man, a great man." I didn't say it to him (we're men and we don't do that kind of thing) but I'll say it to you and mean it for him too. Your good fortune is because your spouse saw the same greatness in you that they'd known in their parent. Thanks again, twice in one day, a good day for me.
Joel
April 5, 2007 5:11 PM
HASH(0x92c3e2c)
Note that Bubba is now acknowledging that he criticized Rod's posting selection, in spite of having first denied that he said that when I called him on it.
HASH(0x938849c)
April 10, 2007 6:59 AM
HASH(0x938a474)
Rod, could you provide the source of this piece? I am planning to save it for Father's Day and send it to some friends and relatives...but two of them are professors, so a citation would be nice! Thanks!
Anne-Marie
April 10, 2007 7:00 AM
HASH(0x938b54c)
Sorry, that anonymous query was me.
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.
Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
Subscribe
Sign Up: Receive Crunchy Con in your in-box every day
I hope his family is well.
FYI, Rod, I posted what is in all probability my last comment about soul competency. And if I may take a moment to step away from this single post and look at the bigger picture, it seems to me that, while you are writing a lot about the Middle East... - Here, marking the four-year anniversary of Kelly's death in Iraq. - The story about Matthew Dowd's recent criticism of Bush and the war in Iraq. - A column for the Dallas Morning News, writing that the National Guard is in trouble, implying that we ought to support them by retreating from Iraq and (whaddya know) raising taxes even though federal revenue for 2006 was apparently over $200,000,000,000. - A column stating the values of classical liberalism aren't universally affirmed. ...you've written absolutely nothing about what I believe are the three biggest stories of the day: Iran kidnapping British sailors, Congress trying to impose a timetable for retreat, and early signs that the surge is producing some success. You write about the new mosque in Clitheroe, England, but not the English sailors held captive in Iran, and that's just odd. Your most recent syndicated column asserts that "dreams of building a neoliberal Arab Utopia are dying in the back alleys of Baghdad," which -- beyond being unfair for the "utopia" comment, which was never a goal -- is written as if events on the ground have not changed a bit since November, even though they clearly have. You've called Iraq a "meat grinder" in which all hope has long since been lost and even supported the Democrats in November, but you're not saying anything about the efforts to wrest control of this war from the Commander in Chief. If someone read your blog as his only source of news, he'd think the most important thing going on around Capitol Hill is the minor controversy surrounding the Attorney General. And, you regurgitate a rumor that the US will attack Iran by April, but haven't written a thing about Iran's most recent act of aggression. It is your blog and you're free to write whatever you want, but I don't quite understand how these big stories aren't being commented on, considering how much you have written and continue to write about the West's fight with jihad.
Bubba, Volokh has a couple times responded to commentors like you, to wit - It's his blog, he does it because he enjoys it, he will write about whatever he damned well pleases, and if you don't like it go somewhere else. (Being Volokh, he is naturally more diplomatic than my summation here.) But there are other reasons why a blogger might choose not to comment on a big story: 1) Every other blog in the world is commenting on it, and he feels that he has nothing to add; 2) Every other blog in the world is commenting on it, and he is tired of hearing about it (or feels that his readers are probably tired of hearing about it); 3) The story hinges on issues that he feels are outside his expertise; 4) He just wants to write about something else. Bottom line, Bubba: a blog isn't a newspaper. Stop treating it like one.
Like I already said to Rod, "It is your blog and you're free to write whatever you want." You're telling me nothing I don't already know, and you too can read other things if you don't like my wondering the obvious.
But everything else that you wrote contradicted your bolded sentence. Forgive me for reading your entire post, and not just the one CYA sentence. Why do I bother? Because smacking down idiots is the reason that God gave us internet discussion boards. I will not shirk my responsibility.
Rod can write whatever he wants: I can and often do criticize that which I find deserves criticism. The two concepts are not contradictory, Joel, and I would hope that you would consider coupling your responsibility of smacking down idiots with something resembling the ability to think rationally.
Why do I bother? Because smacking down idiots is the reason that God gave us internet discussion boards. I will not shirk my responsibility. Heh - pwnt.
Only if one confuses vitriol for an actual point, tv.
Bubba, your initial posting here is classic propaganda: clearly (and at length) expressing one opinion while leaving yourself an out by which you can claim to have said the opposite. Not gonna fall for the CYA sentence. Nope.
Joel, "it is strange that you haven't written about X" and "you're free to write about whatever you want" are NOT contradictory ideas.
The Tao of Bubba is a sublime thing.
Thanks: maybe you could write a whole blog entry about me. It could be yet another topic to pass the time while you're avoiding more important issues.
If you don't like what I blog about, start your own blog and/or quit reading this one. Why torture yourself, and everybody else?
It is sad that a celebration of two lives, father and son, is descerated by petty bickering of the political kind. The description of the father by the son ranks right up with the wonderful one that Steve Blow occasionally runs about his own father on Father's Day. I wouldn't want to compare the writing skills nor the talent. But I do love the description of the father as bigger than life in life. Kelly with his concept of the father as the rock that anchors the family. Blow with his image of a boy in a crowd feeling secure because he can see his father's mane not unlike a battle banner in a charge. I personally see a need to teach fathers that it's as important what they are as it is who they are, maybe more so.
Double doggone darn, missed the edit button, "desecrated" not "descerated". Spelling is to Rod what plumb is to me.
Well, you might not have done the spelling right, Harvey, but you're right about what a shame it is that Bubba's obsession may have discouraged reflections about Michael Kelly's love for his father. It can be a violation of Bnet's Rules of Conduct to post off-topic. I wish I had just deleted his post. I will in the future.
I read Kelly's piece again. If I had any short term memory left I'd have it memorized by now. It defines some principles of fatherhood that I attempt in my own small way to follow. I also try to pass them on to new fathers if given half of an opportunity. One would be that children learn how to address situations by the examples set by their parents. This came home to me the other night when a tornado brushed the home my youngest daughter and her family were visiting. One moment they were in a storm visiting and the next the roof opened up and the storm was roaring inside the house. One of the greatest blessings a man can have is a daughter that loves and respects him. My daughter is a daddy's girl. When she called to tell her dad all about it afterwards she broke into tears. I had to shift from concerned parent into superdad mode and tell her to cowgirl up because the two kids watching her were learning how to handle such a situation by watching their mother. They needed to learn by her example what cool under fire was, well, cool. I see fatherhood as the most important job a man has to do in his lifetime. It starts by reviewing the life lessons they've learned growing up from fathers, even those not their own. Evaluate those lessons attempting to understand not only the lesson, but how it was delivered. I see the understanding the how as being as important as comprehending the what. The reasoning behind the importance of the how is our responsibility to duplicate it as closely as possible so that it will affect the next generation the same way it's affected us. I once read or heard a quote about Ted Williams. A cohort in crime of his once said he, Ted, never forgot for a second that he was Ted Williams and acted accordingly. The inescapable truth of the matter is we as fathers provide examples of behavior. Our children and others learn from us. Sometimes they learn how not to act by the way we act. Kelly's words define how us being us while maintaining that us is dad and what we do and how we do it lives on and on and on and on......
Bubba, has Rod blocked your e-mail access to him? Your complaints appear to me to be along the line of man to man stuff. And you're handling like it's woman to man stuff. Nothing against the girls, but men in my world when they have a problem with a man generally do it heads up without the grandstanding you're exibiting. I personally hope that Rod doesn't delete your comments. As I've pointed out, sometimes our examples of how not to act is by how we act. Your choosing this particular important thread to wage your unimportant personal vendetta against Rod reflects poorly upon you more than it does Rod. Is that what you want?
As I read this peace, tears came to my eyes as I laughed aloud. This is totally my mother-in-law. The reason my husband has been so successful, can solve any problem and is respected by all who know him is because of his mother's unfailing belief in him.
When I married my husband, it would drive my sarcastic soul crazy at how positive she would be in all circumstances. Now it is my plea to God that I could come even close to making my children search for solutions to problems that arise. I hope it is not too late to convince them that they can do all things.
(If Rod's going to delete my subsequent comments, I would appreciate his not letting stand Harvey's insulting me, either.)
(If Rod's going to delete my subsequent comments, I would appreciate his not letting stand Harvey's insulting me, either.) Bubba Hmmmm, I thought my comments were more of a plea than an insult. I guess that's what they mean when they talk about perspective.
My main problem with Bubba, who is a friend of mine, is how much energy he expends arguing with Rod. I'll summarize what he is arguing and demonstrating: Rod's blog is politically irrelevant. I continually to be intrigued by a few of the posts here and a great deal of the heated combox discussions in a Dian Fossey sort of way. But basically the views expressed represent just one more tide pool off the Andrew Sullivan Atlantic ocean of a new, burgeoning business: conservative self-loathing.
It's called self-examination and self-criticism, but whatever. The problem with this administration and so many of its supporters is that they have become total ideologues. The total ideologue cannot see life outside of politics, and more, lives by the Leninist dictum that whatever advances ideological victory is Good, and whatever doesn't is Bad. If that's your thing, fine, there are blogs for your sort of person. This isn't one of them.
Those are some bold assertions, Rod, saying that others cannot see life outside of politics when you've written a book premised on the notion that mainstream conservatives aren't true conservatives because of how they live. To say that many of Bush's supporters are total idealogues ignores the substantial, long-lived disagreements many of us have had with this administration. This seems like a rehash of the canard that conservative pundits didn't criticize Bush prior to late 2005: when I demonstrated the utter bankruptcy of that claim, you clammed up, perhaps because you can't handle evidence that undermines your narrative of being a lone voice of reason and dissent within unthinking, monolithic conservatism. And to object to the charge of loathing your fellow conservatives while simultaneously invoking Lenin... that takes some nerve.
When I married my husband, it would drive my sarcastic soul crazy at how positive she would be in all circumstances. Now it is my plea to God that I could come even close to making my children search for solutions to problems that arise. I hope it is not too late to convince them that they can do all things. Amy in Tennessee Amy your words came to mind this evening as a best friend and myself talked about friends and family. He said, "one of the wonderful things about my first twenty years with my wife was knowing her father. He was a great man, a great man." I didn't say it to him (we're men and we don't do that kind of thing) but I'll say it to you and mean it for him too. Your good fortune is because your spouse saw the same greatness in you that they'd known in their parent. Thanks again, twice in one day, a good day for me.
Note that Bubba is now acknowledging that he criticized Rod's posting selection, in spite of having first denied that he said that when I called him on it.
Rod, could you provide the source of this piece? I am planning to save it for Father's Day and send it to some friends and relatives...but two of them are professors, so a citation would be nice! Thanks!
Sorry, that anonymous query was me.
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.