Rob, with some people, you can talk of grace till you're blue in the face, and they will still only hear works. Almost as if they were utterly incapable of coming to faith, without first being regenerated . . . . I certainly do wish "total depravity" were not the common label for the relevant concept. It sounds like something it's not, i.e., a doctrine that humans are as bad as they can possibly be.
AnotherBeliever
April 28, 2007 5:35 AM
HASH(0xbd16bd0)
26 But not so with you. Rather, let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves. 27 For who is the greater, one who reclines at table or one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at table? But I am among you as the one who serves. (Luke Ch 22) There are a few men and women who put his teachings into practice, if you look in the pages of history. And if you heed THEIR words, self-esteem is the last thing a person needs to worry about. Try reading The Imitation of Christ, for instance. Ask your grandparents, if you are still lucky enough to have some of them, what they think of self-esteem. They might be confused by the concept as taught in schools recently. Hard work and mastery of a trade or skill is worthy of some praise, by their book. Anything beyond that is silly. Go and ask a Drill Sergeant what he thinks of self-esteem. He'll roll his eyes. He spends half his life trying to get it OUT of young people. They must learn to think of their team first and foremost, and not of themselves. It is a long and painful lesson for today's generation. But by the end of it, even WE start to catch on. When we FINALLY get something right at Basic Training, the highest praise we will receive is a silent inspection, maybe a "Hmpf," and the back of our Drill Sergeant as he walks on to the next group of trainees. For which we are giving each other silent high fives behind his back. :) Self-esteem, if ungrounded in reality and unchecked, can be dangerous. Our children should feel secure our love, and should feel that they are reasonably capable of handling every day tasks. That with hard work they can grasp most concepts, and with talent AND hard work, that they may master two or three specialties or skills, for which they may be justifiably proud. Their pride should be for hard work, well done. For standing up for the community, for helping those in need, anonymously, if possible. It should not be reserved for themselves alone at all.
Rob Grano
April 28, 2007 8:47 PM
HASH(0xbd17248)
"I used to think courtesy was dead. I've been forced to admit that it is "only" comatose. I am quite ready to extend that to virtue." I wish I could be that optimistic, Franklin! ;-) I tend to think that both are not only comatose but terminally ill.
Franklin Evans
April 28, 2007 11:45 PM
http://madfedor.blogspot.com/
Rob, I am this close to being irked with you... calling me optimistic. ;) Virtue and courtesy can never, really die. The way I see it, they will hibernate and awaken when their intrinsic values again become appreciated. Heinlein was an optimistic doomsayer. I try to follow his example... because only when we give up do we truly abandon hope. I have three children; even when I don't want to, I have to maintain the example to them. It may not be the noblest of motivations, but there it is. :)
Rob Grano
April 29, 2007 9:25 PM
HASH(0xbf2696c)
"...because only when we give up do we truly abandon hope. I have three children; even when I don't want to, I have to maintain the example to them. It may not be the noblest of motivations, but there it is." True, Franklin. I'm not really as pessimistic as I let on! And I agree with you totally on the idea of maintaining an example.
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Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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Rob, with some people, you can talk of grace till you're blue in the face, and they will still only hear works. Almost as if they were utterly incapable of coming to faith, without first being regenerated . . . . I certainly do wish "total depravity" were not the common label for the relevant concept. It sounds like something it's not, i.e., a doctrine that humans are as bad as they can possibly be.
26 But not so with you. Rather, let the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the leader as one who serves. 27 For who is the greater, one who reclines at table or one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at table? But I am among you as the one who serves. (Luke Ch 22) There are a few men and women who put his teachings into practice, if you look in the pages of history. And if you heed THEIR words, self-esteem is the last thing a person needs to worry about. Try reading The Imitation of Christ, for instance. Ask your grandparents, if you are still lucky enough to have some of them, what they think of self-esteem. They might be confused by the concept as taught in schools recently. Hard work and mastery of a trade or skill is worthy of some praise, by their book. Anything beyond that is silly. Go and ask a Drill Sergeant what he thinks of self-esteem. He'll roll his eyes. He spends half his life trying to get it OUT of young people. They must learn to think of their team first and foremost, and not of themselves. It is a long and painful lesson for today's generation. But by the end of it, even WE start to catch on. When we FINALLY get something right at Basic Training, the highest praise we will receive is a silent inspection, maybe a "Hmpf," and the back of our Drill Sergeant as he walks on to the next group of trainees. For which we are giving each other silent high fives behind his back. :) Self-esteem, if ungrounded in reality and unchecked, can be dangerous. Our children should feel secure our love, and should feel that they are reasonably capable of handling every day tasks. That with hard work they can grasp most concepts, and with talent AND hard work, that they may master two or three specialties or skills, for which they may be justifiably proud. Their pride should be for hard work, well done. For standing up for the community, for helping those in need, anonymously, if possible. It should not be reserved for themselves alone at all.
"I used to think courtesy was dead. I've been forced to admit that it is "only" comatose. I am quite ready to extend that to virtue." I wish I could be that optimistic, Franklin! ;-) I tend to think that both are not only comatose but terminally ill.
Rob, I am this close to being irked with you... calling me optimistic. ;) Virtue and courtesy can never, really die. The way I see it, they will hibernate and awaken when their intrinsic values again become appreciated. Heinlein was an optimistic doomsayer. I try to follow his example... because only when we give up do we truly abandon hope. I have three children; even when I don't want to, I have to maintain the example to them. It may not be the noblest of motivations, but there it is. :)
"...because only when we give up do we truly abandon hope. I have three children; even when I don't want to, I have to maintain the example to them. It may not be the noblest of motivations, but there it is." True, Franklin. I'm not really as pessimistic as I let on! And I agree with you totally on the idea of maintaining an example.
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