Worser'n worser

I love that you quote from a Wash. Post article that features a prominent quote from Ahmed Chalabi. I would have thought he was a guy you'd distrust.

Someone sounds almost gleeful that the US is losing yet another war, and one that will undoubtedly put all of us in even greater danger. Losing this war (and I believe we are) will require a much greater military effort in the future to keep the Islamic hordes at bay. There is more than enough blame to go around, but precious few solutions being offered. While I have severe disagreements with the Bush administration and its conduct of the war, it is nothing compared to the contempt I feel for congressional democrats.

I think perhaps some of the respondents to the poll are confused about what a "Commander in Chief" is. Who decides troop levels? That would be a general, or commander. Congress does have a constitutional role. They have a responsibility for declaring war and providing financial support. They have a constitutional right to deny funding, if they believe that is the right course. Troop levels in Iraq is a military and executive decision and responsibility.

Cleveland: Hey, Rod, when you can report about an OBJECTIVE poll that asks "Would you prefer that we (1) defeat Al Qaeda and its allies in Iraq, or (2) say we can't win and leave the Mid east and our energy supply to Al Qaeda", please wake me up. That a poll reports data that discomfits you does not make that poll unobjective, Cleveland. As Russell Kirk has written, ignore a fact and it will master you.
Gretchen, I'm not "gleeful" that we're losing this war. I believe, as you do, that the nemesis that will follow our hubris will be horrible. But what I don't understand is why y'all blame this on the Democrats. It's the president and his allies in Congress that have got us into such a mess. If I'm happy, it's that finally some reality is being applied to this terrible situation. I don't hear y'all coming up with anything that sounds like a plan that might result in anything like victory. You just don't want to lose. Who, aside from the loony wing of the left, actually wants to lose? But as Saul Bellow wrote, kreplach in a dream is only a dream; it's not kreplach.
I think at least some of you are displacing your anger at Bush for losing the war onto people who are trying to save American lives and preserve the US military by getting us out of the hopeless quagmire.

Hopeless quagmire, Rod? Did you read the New York Times coverage on Anbar? We may have some displaced anger, but you've long ago misplaced any objectivity on this subject.

"My point was that Americans would respond differently if MY question was asked...." Your question was asked. It was called the 2004 presidential election. But we're past the time of fearmongers and racists (no matter how many times they remind us of the coming "Islamic hordes").

tv, aren't you afraid of getting hit with a lightning bolt?

Skip, The only hapless doofuses are the constitutionally ignorant people who crafted the question and the constitutionally ignorant people who think the Constitution gives Congress the authority to set troop levels. But then consider the source--CBS/NYT. Now there's a pair of aces for you! To them, "freedom of the press, and to hell with everything else, including veracity" is all the Constitution says.

Gretchen, I believe Nemesis will be horrible whatever we do. There are no good solutions here, only less horrible ones. I bet there's not a dime's worth of difference between me and thee on our perception of the real threat from aggressive Islam to Western civilization. I only believe that continuing to fight in Iraq is a fool's game, and that the smarter thing to do is strategically retreat and figure out how to fight smarter. We can no more "win" Iraq than the Soviets could "win" Afghanistan. I wish it weren't true, but it is, and we'd best deal with that.

But then consider the source--CBS/NYT. Now there's a pair of aces for you! To them, "freedom of the press, and to hell with everything else, including veracity" is all the Constitution says. Except if the numbers came down 70% in favor of "Da Prez," you'd be lauding it as an example of the power of objective media. Regardless of the source or reportage, the American people are speaking loud and clear - bring our men and women home!

Rod, I'll grant you we can't 'win' Iraq...the idea that Iraqis desired freedom and democracy crashed long ago. If I thought the dems wanted to withdraw for a strategic retreat and regroup I might support that; however, the conservative in me can't quite make that stretch.

Well, you might be right about that, Rod. I don't run in Republican circles, but I do think there are a lot of them out there who have a really sicko kind of blind loyalty to Bush...the same kind of thing the Dems had for poor Clinton (although I look back at Clinton now with some fondness--he was an immoral sleeze, but he had good political instincts). Compared to him Bush is the village idiot of politics. I tend toward a David Kuo kind of outlook because of the last four years of Republicans in power. And, I agree with WFB. It's just that the Democrats I see on the news every night--Pelosi, Reid, etc., make my skin crawl--they are political down to the marrow and I don't see any real concern for America or its soldiers. You've really got me depressed now.

Gretchen, I was just about to ask you where you have been all my life when you let escape the following:
"Rod, I'll grant you we can't 'win'
Iraq...the idea that the Iraqis
desired freedom and democracy
crashed long ago."
Do you really think Americans would act differently if they knew their spouses and children would be tortured and killed if they didn't toe the line? Do you think Iraqis can see what U.S. Democrats and so-called paleocons are saying about abandoning them and still spit in al Qaeda's or (fill in the blank) eye by cooperating wholeheartedly with their elected government? The Iraqis were told for years that U.S. Democrats, neolibertarians (if the shoe fits, Rod) and media would pull another Vietnam/Gulf war I on them after a few years, and now they can see that it's true. (May God help us). So, my dear Gretchen, would you act differently if you were in their shoes? Some do and are killed for it. Would you want an Islamic fascist government to run your life, or would you want freedom and democracy?
Do you think that the folks who endured the USSR yoke all those years didn't want freedom and democracy? The Iraqis, Iranians, Afghans, etc. are just the modern-day citizens of the old USSR.
If you believe in a just God who created all people to live free, please rethink your statement. Or, if you don't care about that, please think about the nuclear war that will most certainly result if we abandon the Mid east, along with our energy supply, to the nuclear-armed Islamic fascists.

Gretchen, God did not create us apples and oranges. He created ALL OF US with the same laws and desires written on our hearts. Until the Catholic heretic and pedophile, Mohammad, came along, and started "converting" minds by the sword, there was no "one big difference between the Middle Eastern mind and Western mind." Of course many Muslims "often choose unwisely." So did the captive peoples of Germany and the old USSR. That is my point: if a Nazi of whatever stripe sticks a gun in your ear and fully intends to kill your family, you too will choose unwisely to prevent that from happening. Do you really want to think like a paleocon or any other con who has his head in the sand?