Jerry Falwell's legacy

Requiescat in Pace. Still, the man was more flash than flame. He won elections, but to what good? In the late seventies, when the Moral Majority got going, hardcore porn was restricted to a few seedy theaters, gay marriage was a joke, "living together" was still "living in sin", and most mass media was free of nudity and obscene words. Abortion had just been declared a "right", and today it pretty much still is. The most raunchiest of pornography is only a click away, gay marriage is a serious issue, nobody blinks at unmarried couple cohabitating and network television is still racing to the bottom.

I think you've nailed it, Derek. Falwell thought that the culture could be saved through the ballot box. He was, alas, wrong.

With a figure like Reverend Falwell, it is quite tempting to be negative and criticize. And I would be the first to criticize. But, in the hour of the death of a human being, let us be merciful instead for Our Lord said that we will receive mercy to the extent that we are merciful. O great Lover of Mankind, through the prayers and intercessions of our Glorious Lady, the Theotokos and ever virgin Mary, have mercy on the soul of your departed servant Jerry Falwell and grant him forgiveness of sins and a place of repose. For you alone are without sin and you are the lover of mankind, Lord Jesus have mercy.

You can feel sorry for Falwell and his family, but we shouldn't forget all the negative things he did, as people are apt to do when someone high profile dies. While he may have been a man of great faith, he also spread a lot of hatred and vitrol at people who didn't deserve it during his life. While I agree with a lot of the traditional values Falwell promoted, he often crossed the line from promoting those values to crudely vilifying those who didn't agree with him. He also helped to weld Christianty to a form of intolerant, right-wing politics that ultimately damaged the conservative movement. A person on another website said that she wouldn't think of becoming a Christian because of people like Falwell. I think that says a lot about his legacy.

As a liberal, a gay man, and until recently a pagan, it is an understatement to say that I disagreed with and often disliked Rev. Falwell. When he pointed his finger and listed the people he he thought had "helped [9/11] happen", I counted myself among them all. I'm still an unapologetic liberal and a gay man, but having very recently come back to Christ, I believe that some day I'll be much less surprised to see Jerry Falwell in Heaven than he will be to see me. Misguided and mistaken though I believe he was, I believe that Christ has welcomed him home with open and loving arms. I will not condemn anyone Christ loved enough to die for. --RiF (formerly SkepticalMystic, techgnostic)

Slice it. Dice it. Spin it. Spit it. Falwell's death notices remind me again in blazing color of an ineviable American religious/political reality for the earnest observer. When push comes to shove, it's always about abortion and gays. That's how we evaluate a conservative, eulogize a devout Christian "despite his flaws", how we measure piety, how we vote. All else goes out the window ultimately, because, when it all comes down and all shakes out, and the verdict is in, it's all about abortion and gays.

Liberal, conservative or moderates, we can all appreciate what Rev. Falwell and Larry Flynt did for protected speech. That, too, is part of his legacy.

Irenaeus, What about Falwell's involvement in the production and distribution of the notorious "Clinton Chronicles" video? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3251077391435895140 http://www.salon.com/news/1998/03/cov_11news.html

I agree with M_David. Rev. Falwell did more to try to influence people toward righteousness than I have. He was outspoken, and made many people angry, true, but I suspect he wasn't trying to please them, but rather a Higher Power. I don't know if his tone was right or wrong, but I surely pray for him. Christ our God, you have purchased Jerry Falwell with your own lifeblood, and your love for him is great. May he be healed in your presence, filled with your light, purified and transformed, remade perfectly into your image. May he shine at your right hand forever. Amen.

"The Democrats would never do the opposite. They are as much if not more bought into the "obsession" with abortion and homosexuality as the GOP." This, I think, is true; in fact, I think the reason no one realizes it is because it's just so UNLIKELY to happen. Repubs wouldn't be debating "can I vote for Guiliani" if Guiliani wasn't running; if Zell or Joe Lieberman were to somehow enter the race and get the presidential nomination, I'm willing to bet the Reform Party would soar in the next election. God bless.

"Jerry Falwell just heard 'well done'..." I suspect he just heard: "Well, the Myths you believed down on Earth are total mismatches with Reality... and you added to the confusion in the world by trying to bring a literal belief in those Myths into the political arena... but don't worry, Jerry... all the other worldwide Myths are also mismatches with Reality... so please join in with all the others... welcome to Heaven...

Hey Irenaeus, So you think Falwell didn't spread hated and vitrol at people? Why don't try these Falwell quotes on for size: "AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals." or
"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being." And there are lots more where those came from. I know the argument that people have about being able to "hate the sin, love the sinner," but Falwell didn't seem to believe in that. He thought it was okay to hate the sinner just as much as the sin, if not more, as can be seen from his own words. It's that kind of hateful theology which makes his brand of Christianity an abomination. It's ironic that so many Christians on this board are rushing to defend him when he was one of the reasons why the public has such negative views of Christianity. He did a lot to tar the public perception of the conservative Christian movement, yet they're the ones who are his most ardent defenders. How ironic. But hey, I guess even the Christians think it's cool to be cruel these days...

Hey Rick, If it is "the content of character" that King preached was of paramount importance, than Falwell should always be thought of as doing the right thing there as well. And Conanthe Contrarian, The public has such a negavtive view of Christianity because of people that claim to be a Christian and preach that it's OK to engage in homosexuality, adultery, get a divorce, and that preach that there are many ways and any way to to heaven. Basically so many people have a dismal view of Christianity because they want to be led by miscreants that engage in debauchery instead of doing anything for themselves.
Just think about the parable of the wheat and the chaff. There is far more chaff.
Falwell was all wheat.

T?he public has such a negavtive view of Christianity because of people that claim to be a Christian and preach that it's OK to engage in homosexuality, adultery, get a divorce, and that preach that there are many ways and any way to to heaven." Actually, they don't. THe polling show that the public has a negative view of Christianity because of the likes of Falwell and Robertson. It is Fundamentalists and Evangelicals--not Episcopalians and Unitarians--who have soiled the view of Christianity in this country.

You don't have to be an Evangelical Christian to think that Tinky-Winky is gay, or that Barney the Dinosaur is evil. LOL. Seriously, I thought the attack on Tinky-Winky was one of the funniest jokes I had ever heard. The attacks on Ellen, not so much.

I'll let Hitchens say it for me, since he sums it up better that I ever could: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkAPaEMwyKU

I'd say he was changed by the Gospel. His life was a net + for humanity.

Since I may post to my own blogs about this, though I'm still not sure about it, I'll try to be brief. I am, personally, one of Falwell's targets. It doesn't matter which of the labels he used apply to me (in case anyone is wondering: pagan). It is exceedingly difficult to feel positive about a man who not only uses such rhetoric, but has the sympathetic ear of many thousands of people. Most of those people are of little consequence to me, personally. I am quite content to let them to their way, thinking what they wish to think. But, there are two categories of such people I am forced to consider. One is the rare fanatic who will decide that God has called upon him to put Falwell's words into action (not meaning to ascribe those actions to Falwell's intentions) and take violence to me or mine; the other is a small group of powerful men who are the ones who authored the legislation Falwell helped get passed, or who are in essential agreement with Falwell's words but apply them in ways that Falwell may or may not have intended. In the end, Falwell's legacy is of no great significance, because his voice was just one of many who called for "us vs. them". Those of us who are affected by that voice will go on dealing with it as best we can, there never being a lack of such voices.

Just so we are clear when Falwell said:
AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals..." And: "[Homosexuals are] brute beasts...part of a vile and satanic system [that] will be utterly annihilated, and there will be a celebration in heaven." You disagree with the style but agree with the substance of those comments? Of course, these comments are merely illustrative.
Falwell's rhetoric, or as you refer to it style, wasn't a smoke screen. I actually believe that what he said represented what he believed. So when he said gay people are satanic beasts that deserve to die from AIDS I take him at his word. In addition, I noticed that, aside from the 9-11 comment, religious conservatives rarely voice disagreement about the substance of anything that Falwell said while eschewing his rhetoric.
I can't imagine why.

I think Jerry was a good man. He angered the right people. Reading the vitriolic spew from left-wingers re: Jerry's passing is oh so instructive, and says much more about those posters, than about Jerry. R.I.P., Jerry.

All that I ever can remember about Mr. Falwell is that he (allegedly only?) diagnosed a Tele-Tubby as gay, and that I would feel embarrassed to tell people that I was born in Lynchburg, VA, because Mr. Falwell is the only reason that most people have heard of the town.

I think you've nailed it, Derek. Falwell thought that the culture could be saved through the ballot box. He was, alas, wrong. Rod Dreher I think you're wrong. Falwell believed legislating religious morality would work. He was wrong. Just like the Islamists are wrong and the communists in Russia were wrong. They've all suffered from ridiculi-religious-political myopia. That's when you're so convinced that your version of morality is divine design and deserving of legal status. It's never worked, ever. That's because morality isn't about faith. It's about morality. Faith is about perception which is defined by perspective, the basis for immorality. Jesus understood this. That's why he dismissed the concept of Christianity as law of the land out of hand.

the rest of the "news" flash was a disrespectful in the extreme replay of the Falwell sound bites the left loves to highlight How is it disrespectful to repeat his own words when reviewing his career? I heard a rebroadcast NPR interview with him. Terry Gross--very respectfully, I might add--played some clips of speeches he'd made and gave him every opportunity to amend his words or put them in context. He could have said "Let me explain--I didn't mean that the way it sounded" or "I'm sorry now that I said that" or even--which was probably the truth--"I only said that because I wanted them to give me money." He didn't. He retracted nothing, he softened nothing, he denied nothing. So I think it's quite fair to judge him by the words of his own mouth, which he stood by.

it just goes to show you -- only the good die -- oh, he really wasn't that young.

Cleveland, which of the Falwell quotes come under the heading of celebrity bashing? The sad truth is that our culture hungers for large targets on which they can heap undeserved adulation and unwarranted contempt. From a portion of the very set of interviews sigaliris cites (the Terry Gross ones), I am sure Falwell himself understood that very well. My standard is this: the question is whether adultery by the President of the US is worse than adultery by your neighbor. Any answer that isn't "they are both exactly wrong and neither is worse than the other" brands the answerer as having blindly partaken of the ethical fallacies of our culture. Falwell was a man, a fellow citizen, and he commanded an audience well out of proportion to any that I could have. He said things that pissed off alot of people, myself included -- and I was very pissed off by his 9/11 tirade -- but worst of all he pointed the finger of blame and encouraged others to view those he pointed at as scapegoats. I cannot forgive him for that. So, while I scoff at the lazy thinkers who are quick to jump onto any bandwagon that makes them feel better about themselves, and I never condone the sort of bashing that Falwell has received including that while he was alive, I cannot muster any condemnation of those who are playing by exactly the same rules Falwell played. Reap what you sow. My pagan ethics finds itself in complete agreement with that concept.

Franklin and Sig, "Falwell said he hates homosexuality so the ABC news flash which reported his death was justified in being disrespectful and harsh."
That's all you are really saying (with a lot of blah, blah, blah thrown in) about my comment that the news flash of a person's untimely death should not be an occasion for liberal attack on the person; there is plenty of liberal airtime to do that later. So, that's that. No point in trying to get you two to admit that the liberal media can be horrible to conservatives. Now, Sig, you made an assertion that Falwell really was a bad person, but the things I said about Jackson to illustrate the absurdity of your position, were slanderous. All I can say is thank you--I need a hearty laugh now and then when dealing with liberals :-).

Franklin, my old friend, had you stopped after the second paragraph of your 9:11 am comment, rather than clouding it with all the blah, blah, blah that followed, you would have a case. "I cannot muster any condemnation of those who are playing by exactly the same rules Falwell played. Reap what you sow. My pagan ethics finds itself in complete agreement with that concept." is some of the contrary blah, blah, blah. And, what the heck are pagan ethics? Do they still allow throwing Christians to the lions, for example? Neither Rev. Falwell nor I ever saw anything worthwhile in pagan ethics--too many millions of us were murdered by people with pagan ethics.

"...you might at least have the courtesy to learn what pagans actually believe before passing judgment on us. History shows plenty of mistakes on every side. Falwell perpetrated his share, as are you here." Over the years, Franklin, I've come to believe that even pagans don't know what pagans must believe in order to call themselves pagans. Until such time as pagans elect a Leader of the Pagans and begin to speak with one voice, don't expect me to owe you "the courtesy to learn what pagans actually believe." And to be honest, and I mean no disrespect, I don't care all that much what pagans believe. Nor did I pass judgement on you or your pagan beliefs, whatever they may be, so please find someone else to make you a victim. "Oh, and speaking of historical accuracy: there were some thousands of early Christians killed by pagans, though a statistical analysis of population growth makes hundreds more likely." Franklin, you can't get away with limiting the history of pagan atrocities against Christians to only the early Christians. If you add those early Christians murdered by Roman pagans to just (1)Christians killed by the pagan barbarian hoards, (2)Christians killed by the conquered pagans and semi-pagans who marched across three continents with early Muslims, and (3)Christians killed by the pagan Nazis--yes, Franklin, the Nazis acted like and considered themselves the new, improved pagans--then, as I said, the number is in the millions. Do you wonder, Franklin, that the Falwells of the world, and all authentic Christians, look at pagans differently than you?

I certainly don't wonder about how Christians view us, because they search for ways to justify their prejudgment concerning our being agents of Satan. Your examples 1 and 2 are both of political or human endeavor, having absolutely no motivation in religion. You'd have done better to cite the various conflicts connected to or within the one of the Crusades, though I'd have asked you to justify the Christian rape, pillage and burning of Christian Byzantium along with it. I truly have to wonder at your education and rational thought processes when you decide that Nazi Germany was any more representative of paganisms in general than Koresh, Jones, the various Popes who had mistresses and children, or the superstitious Puritans of Salem. I have to say, Cleveland, that if you are an example of an authentic Christian's commitment to fact and truth, I truly must return to hiding my spirituality as my Christian neighbor and friend regularly exhorts me to do. That sort of illogical leaping about is precisely what pagans in the past have learned to be afraid of, because it invariably leads to violence against us. If you wish to insist on your belief that I am an agent of Satan, then we have nothing else to discuss. If that is your belief, then you may dispense with the hypocrisy of engaging me in rational discourse, because I have no interest in dealing with anyone who perpetuates that sort of ignorance.

Franklin, you may as well knock off all your hysteria and whining about how misunderstood and victimized you pagans are. Try to understand--I don't care. (You may want to move to Massachusetts where, more likely than not, you will be given special pagan rights by the state). I do care about how you leftists, no matter what political or "spiritual" label you apply to yourselves, treat and demonize people like Rev. Falwell. He represented 2,000 years of Christianity's efforts to overcome the effects of paganism, in all its forms, including the new super-race of the 1930s and 40s. I hope God sends us a hundred more like him, soon, and I'm not even an Evangelist. And knock off the caffeine. The second paragraph of your 7:05 am comment is disgusting.

My friend, why do you keep making this about paganism? Why do you insist on making me say you are "a spawn of Satan"? I don't know what that means.
You know that I pray for you and others like you. Get off the caffeine and stop talking to Jesuits, or I'll have to double my prayers for you :-).

Sigaliris, "How is it disrespectful to repeat his own words when reviewing his career?" Yes, you nailed it right there. That's what some people forget when they are complaining about sound bites, and media caricature is that he actual said these things. Many people watched them come right out of his mouth. So, how is this a caricature? And how, can one say he never said anything mean about anyone when we do have all these quotes. Why should the 9/11 comment be pushed aside as though it doesn't matter? Of course it matters.