Dr. John Bickle of the University of Cincinnati writes:Since there's no test (a la Jeff Foxworthy) for determining whether one is a crunchy con, I thought I'd go to the source and ask you. My wife Marica Bernstein and I...
Just don't let me catch you passing notes while the rest of us have our heads bowed in prayer. ;-D --snort-- Just so, Rod. Just so. I traded in my Republican Party membership card (well, in spirit anyway) about 12 years ago when I made the leap from agnostic, secular law student to ardent Roman Catholic. To that point, I was probably indistinguishable from your self-described "right-wing hippie" respondents. Strict Constructionism still rings my bell, though I have become completely disillusioned with the R party's sincerity in championing federalist constituationalism. I find the rapidity with which our federal government is removing its rule-of-law mask to be quite frightening, actually. In the meantime, let me offer your respondents a hearty welcome to the Crunchy Con party. But be careful - you might wake up one day and find yourself wondering about the reasonableness of agnosticism, like I did.
Steve Bodio
May 26, 2007 2:54 AM
http://www.stephenbodio.blogspot.com/
They could move to my town-- and i generally groan about newcomers. (So could you, Rod, but the only decent newspaper jobs are 100 miles away). "Right wing hippie'-- hmmm. I've been called something similar.
David
May 26, 2007 5:06 AM
HASH(0x925e67c)
Rod, By my definition a crunchy con is a devout Christian. These sound like wonderful nice people, but another title should apply. Please resist the desire to apply the standard PC tolerance doctrine when you determine who is in or out of the tent.
wm
May 26, 2007 5:46 AM
HASH(0x926113c)
I prefer "Tory Anarchist" to "Right Wing Hippy."
Marica
May 26, 2007 6:41 PM
HASH(0x926128c)
Please excuse this post-- it's a test of my ability to post. Thanks, Marica
Marica
May 26, 2007 6:47 PM
HASH(0x9262a78)
From John & Marica-- Thanks for the replies! No passing notes during prayers, we promise. We both come from strong traditional families, and so learned courtesy and manners early on. We all probably hold more beliefs in common than in contrast. Besides, the "village agnostic" has a long tradition in most Judeo-Christian communities. "Tory anarchist" is o.k. as a label, but "anarchist" is too strong for our views. We espouse limited government power both over individual choices and geographical areas, and based on commitments to shared values and practices rather than on a shared public trough. John & Marica
armchair pessimist
May 26, 2007 7:13 PM
HASH(0x92631a8)
Professor Bickle and wife will have food and probably arms when the night falls. Most people won't. Will he swap food and protection for their allegience, and what form of government would he inagurate? Given his background, he might make himself a philosopher-king. My own inclination leanstowards the feudal, but there'll be plenty of room in which to try out various alternatives. Cuius regio, eius religio, right? It does seem to me that there's an authoritarian subsoil in crunchyness, which can grow, or regrow, many worthy manners and customs. Too bad it will take the decline and fall of everything for it to happen. On the other hand, no doubt we'll finally be rid of Old Mill, Bentham and the 19th century econocrats.
Marica
May 26, 2007 7:34 PM
HASH(0x9266260)
No philosopher kings! Plato was a big-government facist of the worst sort.
Robin
May 26, 2007 8:08 PM
HASH(0x9262bc8)
Curious. All the cookbooks I ever find (at garage sales) from the 50's and 60's start with add one can of tomato soup or slice hotdogs vertically and bake at 350 in a casserole dish. Seriously, I found those cookbooks to filled with recipes for busy moms. I thought they were cool until I actually sat down and want to try and use them. Do you mean "junior league" cookbooks? Just curious.
elizabeth
May 26, 2007 11:02 PM
HASH(0x9266a50)
Robin- An Amish cookbook I picked up outside of Jamesport, MO a couple years ago was full of Jello recipes! The Bickles remind me of 1970s survivalists, whose politics spanned the spectrum but were united in the belief that all he** was about to break loose - the barbarians at the gates, etc. It seemed a reasonable belief at that time, given the assassinations and riots in the 60s, the rapid breakup of 50s marriages and the increasingly casual sexual behavior of young people - not to mention the terrible hair. What is triggering it now - guilt for voting for Bush twice? The neo-con government has not shown overmuch respect for the rule of law, has it? Not surprising in that they are the mirror image of liberal extremists from back in the day. I'm wondering what led conservatives to fall for them. Maybe that is a conversation for another day.
Marica
May 27, 2007 12:55 AM
HASH(0x9269748)
Robin-- you're exactly right. Most of those cookbooks were for busy moms on the go. But you've got to dig in. A typical cookbook will only yield 40-50 recipes worth making. And you've really got to go back in time. Case in point, The Fredericksburg (TX) Home Kitchen Cookbook published by the Fredericksburg PTA, 1962 edition that I inherited from my grandmother, opens with the following dedication: "To the parents and the teachers who bestow on our children and inculcate in them the physical and spiritual strength for our Christian, democratic way of life this edition is respectfully dedicated by The Fredericksburg Parent-Teacher Association". I foound a leter edition from the early 2000's and needless to say the dedication had changed. Elizabeth(Marica speaking)-- It's Bickle & Bernstein. Not going femi-Nazi here-- don't vehemently object to being called "Mrs. Bickle"-- just clarifying. (from both) It's not guilt that motivates us, it's just an increasing understanding that the latest couple of generations of Western culture are not capable of defeating a dedicated enemy with a long range vision. We're just trying to increase the probability that we and our children survive. We don't recall that an event like September 11th happened in the late 60's or early 70's.
HASH(0x9266f10)
May 27, 2007 1:08 AM
HASH(0x92695bc)
David wrote: "By my definition a crunchy con is a devout Christian." So I guess I and my Jewish bretheren Rod wrote of in his book aren't welcome then, huh, David? Very Christian of you.
elizabeth
May 27, 2007 1:59 AM
HASH(0x92697cc)
Marcia, The late 60s and the early 70s saw a homegrown terrorist movement in the form of various radical organizations. The most "successful" (ick) of them, the Weather Underground, carried out a large number of bombings. There were attacks on our troops and sailors abroad in the 80s. In the 90s we saw the Oklahoma City travesty, also homegrown and from the right, and the first World Trade Center bombing by the same network that eventually succeeded on Sept. 11. In the latter, there was also the factor of a new government that could not be induced to take the threat seriously. Apparently the Clinton administration weighed heavily the idea of going after Al Quaeda between the election and the changeover, but decided to hand the information to the new government. How seriously they took that threat is history. Is that a failure of a generation (or two) or of a government? I don't think this is a distinction without a difference. The current situation in Iraq is the result of a government, as may be an impending disaster in Iran if the neo-con insanity is allowed to play out. Let's hope it does not. I am not sure where this idea that we don't have the mettle, as a people, to fight a real struggle. The "war on terror" is a travesty, an excuse for creeping fascism and implementation of an agenda that was cooked up long before Sept. 11. The actions taken by the administration have played into the hands of the enemy, creating more danger than was originally at hand. There is a large population in the world with no hope, and instead of being the beacon of hope, this government... oh, never mind. Everyone knows. As for cookbooks, the best ones I find are the last 30 years of natural foods cookbooks and even some of the fancy ones, now that organic and natural foods are considered chic instead of a throwback. The Farmhouse Cookbook, the French Farmhouse cookbook, the Italian - er - some farm cookbook by Lynn Rosetto Kasper (the book after The Splendid Table) are great. So is Annemarie Colbin's The Natural Gourmet and Greens, Glorious Greens by XX?. Prairie Home Cooking (I'm in Minnesota) and Savoring the Seasons of the Northern Heartland are great.
David
May 27, 2007 7:24 AM
HASH(0x926da54)
To Annonymous, You misinterpreted my comments. Rod has crafted a narrow definition of who is and isn t a crunchy-con. It has been my opinion that a crunchy-con is a devout Christian. But now that you mention it, I suppose any devoutly faithful person within the Judeo-Christian sphere would probably fit. When someone describes himself as not being very religious , or atheistic, or whatever, he should be given a different title. That shouldn t be intended as a put-down, it s just an attempt to categorize things properly. Look at it this way: A pork chop isn t kosher, no matter how good it tastes.
armchair pessimist
May 27, 2007 12:56 PM
HASH(0x926db08)
As far as I'm concerned, a Crunchy is anyone who believes with Ennius: "The Roman State stands on its ancient customs and its manhood."; but of course you must replace the adjective modifying 'state' with one that fits your case. Rod?
David J. White
May 31, 2007 2:28 AM
HASH(0x926dc34)
Nice, armchair! Could you give me a citation for the Ennius? If it's from the Annales I'm sure it will be in Skutch's edition of the fragments.
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Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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Just don't let me catch you passing notes while the rest of us have our heads bowed in prayer. ;-D --snort-- Just so, Rod. Just so. I traded in my Republican Party membership card (well, in spirit anyway) about 12 years ago when I made the leap from agnostic, secular law student to ardent Roman Catholic.
To that point, I was probably indistinguishable from your self-described "right-wing hippie" respondents. Strict Constructionism still rings my bell, though I have become completely disillusioned with the R party's sincerity in championing federalist constituationalism. I find the rapidity with which our federal government is removing its rule-of-law mask to be quite frightening, actually. In the meantime, let me offer your respondents a hearty welcome to the Crunchy Con party. But be careful - you might wake up one day and find yourself wondering about the reasonableness of agnosticism, like I did.
They could move to my town-- and i generally groan about newcomers. (So could you, Rod, but the only decent newspaper jobs are 100 miles away). "Right wing hippie'-- hmmm. I've been called something similar.
Rod, By my definition a crunchy con is a devout Christian. These sound like wonderful nice people, but another title should apply. Please resist the desire to apply the standard PC tolerance doctrine when you determine who is in or out of the tent.
I prefer "Tory Anarchist" to "Right Wing Hippy."
Please excuse this post-- it's a test of my ability to post. Thanks, Marica
From John & Marica-- Thanks for the replies! No passing notes during prayers, we promise. We both come from strong traditional families, and so learned courtesy and manners early on. We all probably hold more beliefs in common than in contrast. Besides, the "village agnostic" has a long tradition in most Judeo-Christian communities. "Tory anarchist" is o.k. as a label, but "anarchist" is too strong for our views. We espouse limited government power both over individual choices and geographical areas, and based on commitments to shared values and practices rather than on a shared public trough.
John & Marica
Professor Bickle and wife will have food and probably arms when the night falls. Most people won't. Will he swap food and protection for their allegience, and what form of government would he inagurate? Given his background, he might make himself a philosopher-king. My own inclination leanstowards the feudal, but there'll be plenty of room in which to try out various alternatives. Cuius regio, eius religio, right?
It does seem to me that there's an authoritarian subsoil in crunchyness, which can grow, or regrow, many worthy manners and customs. Too bad it will take the decline and fall of everything for it to happen. On the other hand, no doubt we'll finally be rid of Old Mill, Bentham and the 19th century econocrats.
No philosopher kings! Plato was a big-government facist of the worst sort.
Curious. All the cookbooks I ever find (at garage sales) from the 50's and 60's start with add one can of tomato soup or slice hotdogs vertically and bake at 350 in a casserole dish. Seriously, I found those cookbooks to filled with recipes for busy moms. I thought they were cool until I actually sat down and want to try and use them. Do you mean "junior league" cookbooks? Just curious.
Robin- An Amish cookbook I picked up outside of Jamesport, MO a couple years ago was full of Jello recipes! The Bickles remind me of 1970s survivalists, whose politics spanned the spectrum but were united in the belief that all he** was about to break loose - the barbarians at the gates, etc. It seemed a reasonable belief at that time, given the assassinations and riots in the 60s, the rapid breakup of 50s marriages and the increasingly casual sexual behavior of young people - not to mention the terrible hair. What is triggering it now - guilt for voting for Bush twice?
The neo-con government has not shown overmuch respect for the rule of law, has it? Not surprising in that they are the mirror image of liberal extremists from back in the day. I'm wondering what led conservatives to fall for them. Maybe that is a conversation for another day.
Robin-- you're exactly right. Most of those cookbooks were for busy moms on the go. But you've got to dig in. A typical cookbook will only yield 40-50 recipes worth making. And you've really got to go back in time. Case in point, The Fredericksburg (TX) Home Kitchen Cookbook published by the Fredericksburg PTA, 1962 edition that I inherited from my grandmother, opens with the following dedication: "To the parents and the teachers who bestow on our children and inculcate in them the physical and spiritual strength for our Christian, democratic way of life this edition is respectfully dedicated by The Fredericksburg Parent-Teacher Association". I foound a leter edition from the early 2000's and needless to say the dedication had changed. Elizabeth(Marica speaking)-- It's Bickle & Bernstein. Not going femi-Nazi here-- don't vehemently object to being called "Mrs. Bickle"-- just clarifying.
(from both) It's not guilt that motivates us, it's just an increasing understanding that the latest couple of generations of Western culture are not capable of defeating a dedicated enemy with a long range vision. We're just trying to increase the probability that we and our children survive. We don't recall that an event like September 11th happened in the late 60's or early 70's.
David wrote: "By my definition a crunchy con is a devout Christian." So I guess I and my Jewish bretheren Rod wrote of in his book aren't welcome then, huh, David? Very Christian of you.
Marcia, The late 60s and the early 70s saw a homegrown terrorist movement in the form of various radical organizations. The most "successful" (ick) of them, the Weather Underground, carried out a large number of bombings.
There were attacks on our troops and sailors abroad in the 80s. In the 90s we saw the Oklahoma City travesty, also homegrown and from the right, and the first World Trade Center bombing by the same network that eventually succeeded on Sept. 11. In the latter, there was also the factor of a new government that could not be induced to take the threat seriously.
Apparently the Clinton administration weighed heavily the idea of going after Al Quaeda between the election and the changeover, but decided to hand the information to the new government. How seriously they took that threat is history. Is that a failure of a generation (or two) or of a government? I don't think this is a distinction without a difference. The current situation in Iraq is the result of a government, as may be an impending disaster in Iran if the neo-con insanity is allowed to play out. Let's hope it does not. I am not sure where this idea that we don't have the mettle, as a people, to fight a real struggle. The "war on terror" is a travesty, an excuse for creeping fascism and implementation of an agenda that was cooked up long before Sept. 11. The actions taken by the administration have played into the hands of the enemy, creating more danger than was originally at hand. There is a large population in the world with no hope, and instead of being the beacon of hope, this government... oh, never mind. Everyone knows. As for cookbooks, the best ones I find are the last 30 years of natural foods cookbooks and even some of the fancy ones, now that organic and natural foods are considered chic instead of a throwback. The Farmhouse Cookbook, the French Farmhouse cookbook, the Italian - er - some farm cookbook by Lynn Rosetto Kasper (the book after The Splendid Table) are great. So is Annemarie Colbin's The Natural Gourmet and Greens, Glorious Greens by XX?. Prairie Home Cooking (I'm in Minnesota) and Savoring the Seasons of the Northern Heartland are great.
To Annonymous, You misinterpreted my comments. Rod has crafted a narrow definition of who is and isn t a crunchy-con. It has been my opinion that a crunchy-con is a devout Christian. But now that you mention it, I suppose any devoutly faithful person within the Judeo-Christian sphere would probably fit.
When someone describes himself as not being very religious , or atheistic, or whatever, he should be given a different title. That shouldn t be intended as a put-down, it s just an attempt to categorize things properly. Look at it this way: A pork chop isn t kosher, no matter how good it tastes.
As far as I'm concerned, a Crunchy is anyone who believes with Ennius: "The Roman State stands on its ancient customs and its manhood."; but of course you must replace the adjective modifying 'state' with one that fits your case.
Rod?
Nice, armchair! Could you give me a citation for the Ennius? If it's from the Annales I'm sure it will be in Skutch's edition of the fragments.
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