Christian dating confidential

Most smart women I've met do not meet many traditional criteria of 'wifeliness' (if there is such a word). To be frank they're more assertive, confident and less submissive. I think it's this rather than smarts that would be off putting for a lot of men who see themselves as traditional.

I don't think this is particular to Christianity or any religion but rather personality.

If you think back to encounters that had the spark and chemistry you mention I'd imagine that physical attraction plays it's part as always. However the electricity of a good conversation, with broad agreement but with an edge of the cut and thrust of a debate, cannot be beaten in my opinion. For such was not a wall flower made.

Regarding D S's post, I think a good argument can be made that this effect is largely due to co-ed schooling. Boys are naturally more assertive than girls. For girls capable and interested in intellectual pursuits, they have to learn to be more assertive to compete.

In the past, it seems like people found spouses through networks of family and friends. Those sorts of networks are fraying and changing (see the work of Robert Putnam on Bowling Alone) and it shouldn't be any surprise that finding appropriate spouses is taking longer or not happening at all.

My own situation is somewhat unusual since I had lots of options followed by none at all. It does, I think, illustrate that there aren't any easy answers.

In my own case, I attended a fairly solidly Catholic college but have been in a fairly secular field (higher ed) since graduation. I haven't had a girlfriend in six years or been on a date and have to admit that I haven't met one single lady whom I have been all that interested in getting to know better. I could count the Catholic ladies I've met who were my age on one hand. My situation wasn't helped by the fact that I was alone in a new city and really had to work to meet fellow Catholics with even remotely similar interests.

Thinking back to my own experiences, I don't think female intelligence or assertiveness was really an issue. I just remember that so many of the girls at school were intent on getting their Mrs. degrees and that really sucked a lot of the romance out of dating. My last girlfriend, who is actually a staunch traditionalist, thought that getting me to commit entailed trying to make out as much as possible. I was really shocked (because I had seen other girls do this and thought I had chosen better) and, when she kept trying to force the issue in the middle of family crisis (close relative in jail), I had to just drop it. I would only say that I wish Catholic women would take a deep breath. They have a lot to offer and do themselves no service by acting so needy.

I've never found singles groups that helpful, but individual Christians, especially married ones, could do singles a service by befriending them and really trying to integrate them into the life of their parishes. Oftentimes, the exclusive family orientation of parishes and married couples who are occupied with kids and saving for school or a new mini-van or whatever unintentionally creates enormous barriers for singles who have relatively little to contribute to those sorts of discussions.

Amen to the last two posts.

This is really interesting stuff. I became a serious Christian in Washington DC, back in 1992, and knew that chastity would be a very big issue for me -- and that if I was going to be faithful to God, I couldn't live as I had in my previous life. Dating became perilous, because I knew that without a partner who was equally as committed to fidelity to the Church's teachings, I wouldn't be able to make it. I wasn't prepared for the almost total lack of helpfulness of parish life in finding a potential mate. As a Catholic, about the only thing I envied the Evangelicals was the existence at their churches -- at least the ones my Washington friends attended -- of social networks of believers who were on the same page, so to speak. But of course I've learned since then that the Evangelical dating scene has lots of problems too.

I was fervently committed to my faith, but I tell you, I did envy to a certain extent my secular friends for whom the whole question of sex was a moot point. They could pursue whoever interested them -- unless of course they fell for someone who was a serious Christian, in which case sex became a problem. But that didn't often happen. In fact, I can't think of it ever happening.

I wouldn't have traded with them, and as I've said, I don't recall that they had any more success settling down than any of the rest of us. But there was an ease about their social life that we Christians didn't have. I wonder if it would have been different had I been part of a Christian subculture. I can look back on all that now from the position of 10 years of marriage and can see what deep and important work of healing God was doing inside me during those years of effective celibacy. But they were difficult and lonely years, and I don't miss them at all. As Kierkegaard said, life can only be understood backwards, but has to be lived forwards.

My experience is that in churches they aren't teaching Christian singles the practical steps to take in singleness. We are girded down with the biblical teaching, practically overflowing with scriptures and principles for Christian courtship and relationships but no one takes the time to let us know what our "man-part" can do in regards to dating. So because of this lack of disclosure, people rest on ther laurels and that butchered line of "Wait of God...It will happen, etc, etc." Therefore given all of this information of lack thereof our ability to date and relate to the opposite sex is stunted because our church isn't given us the practical tools to handle our singleness and the singles ministry within many churches are full of older people looking for their second marriage or more women than there are men.

I think for christian women it is more difficult to marry if they didn't marry at early age.
Christian men who are responsible usually marry early to young girls of the same age. Not married men who became christians by 30 or later perhaps become too choosy, if it is possible to say so, they are more inclined to marry girls much younger than themselves, and as it is seen from their advertisments in newspapers - necessarily without sexual history or strong passions to other men, attractive, not fat, which is very important for a man who wants an ideal biblical family (about absense of sexual past and passions - absolutely without irony).

So a woman who became christian over 30 has really a weak chance, especially considering that christian men are more rare than women, at least in russia. Judging by proportion, most likely several girls would compete for a pious young man at each parish :)
But i heard that in Greece the situation is vice versa, greek orthodox boys theologian graduates complain that greek girls are not about churches nowadays, they become too greedy and would't marry anyone with salary of a priest. For that reason some go to choose brides to Russia, but that is difficult and expensive for them, besides not every young girl would marry a foreigner,
even if they promise to bring wife to motherland for every vacations.

Rod, I love your columns. I think that the problem with dating today is a GENERAL problem, not one confined solely to Christians. Americans today, especially the youth, want MAXIMUM choice, MINIMUM risk. I'm a committed Catholic male, 24 years, who wishes I was more faithful (your Sexxxy Bible girl column SPANKED me, not for my actions but for my desires), but I have a difficult time "dating" in the traditional sense. Now, perhaps that's because men have phased "dating" out and therefore women are jaded, OR women simply just want something else, but I have a hard time getting a girl to "go out for dinner, drinks and/or a movie" and I consider myself a nice enough, handsome enough guy. It's a chicken/egg thing. I think the reason is because to accept an invitation out on a date requires a woman to say "ehh, ok, I find you attractive enough" leaving her vulnerable a little. And the men don't ask women anymore because the mere act of asking is potentially setting them up for rejection. I'm writing now from Bethlehem, Palestine, and boy is it different here. Here, you don't date. You get engaged. Then starts the courtship. If it works, which it almost always does, you marry. Prior to engagement, it's forbidden, among the Christians here (I'm not sure how the Muslims operate) for a young man and a young woman to go out alone.

Sarahndipity-

You may be on to something, 7 years ago, a beautiful, smart coworker asked me out, this year we'll be celebrating our 4 year anniversary.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38808

Interesting, if virginity of brides is the same important issue for christian men in USA as for those (from advertisments) i mentioned in previous comment?

In this short narrative:
http://www.literature.org/authors/tolstoy-leo/father-sergius/chapter-01.html
the hero becomes a monk solely because he found out his bride was not a virgin, see where pride led him.
I find that awful quality in myself, hearing news that someone (whom i started to fancy) once upon a time had a wife or a 'girlfriend' it is always such a poison that i don't want to live:( Even if it was devil knows how long ago.
And many women don't worry at all. Moreover many women who claim to love their husbands and seem successful and wise in many other questions say 'all men are infidel, let him do what he wants, only he must do it accurately so that i should never notice'.
It is so dicouraging.

Jaybird's "Onion" post is actually part of the problem. After reading the story I realized that while it is a farce, people like that aren't.

There is a lack of authenticity among so-called "Christians". They talk-the-talk, but they don't walk-the-walk, so while we are all sitting in church together, there is a extreme demarcation between those that are actually applying the principles of New Testament Christianity to their lives and then there are the shadow boxers that go to church on a Sunday, Saturday, etc as merely a distraction from their lives. So given that observation of course it would be hard for me, a well-read--theologically and otherwise, cultured, faithfully spiritual and attractive woman to find a helpmate among the ranks. It has become insufficient for people to tell me that "it will come." Because it is hard for me to believe that when the prospects I sit among aren't at all authentic about their Christianity.

This is what makes dating outside the faith seem a little more promising because I've seen much more potential among the men I know outside of the faith than the ones that I know inside.

Outside of that, I think that we all must take a look at what is going on in our churches. If you've been there for many years, operating in the same circles and small groups and have noticed you've met no one worth writing home about, it is time for you to change your schedule. Get out socialize with Christians at other churches. Just stop doing the same things and expecting different results. Thank you Rod for bringing this us, this is such a wonderful discourse.

Good pointers, but number 4 needs to go, such people aren't necessarily "undesireable" in terms of future marriage propsects.

I think Bill H's last paragraph is really important.

Having read this thread, I've just got two things to say.

The first is, all you guys who are/were looking for women who are both intelligent and faithful Christians, where the heck were you back when I was dating? :) Seriously, I had nice, well-meaning male friends tell me that if I didn't want to keep scaring off the men who might be interested in me I'd have to play it a little dumber. I never did take their advice, of course.

Second, my husband met most of my family before he met me, because on the freezing January day when they all went on a local March for Life (not the D.C. one, but one in the state we were living in at the time) I was at home sick with the flu. My mother and his started matchmaking right away, which naturally made me completely uninterested in meeting this person; when we did finally meet, at a meeting of the local chapter of Catholics United for the Faith, I went out of my way to ignore him.

My mother's made of sterner stuff, though, and invited this nice Catholic man and his parents over for dinner on Easter Sunday. He and I were married almost exactly a year later, on the Saturday before Divine Mercy Sunday.

The moral of this story? Trust God, keep praying, be who you are and not who other people tell you to be, and if you *do* have a matchmaking mama (or brother or sister or aunt or uncle or cousin or grandparent or close friend etc.) don't reject out of hand the people they think might be good for you; God works through the people in our lives on many occasions.

I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy about four years ago from a staunchly Protestant background (Baptist). On my journey into EO, I found that I was unwilling to date the Evangelical Protestants who refused to consider liturgical worship as legitimate or who were unwilling to discuss faith. In fact, as I felt the pull toward Orthodoxy, I found it very easy to jettison a relationship with a good guy, but one hostile to where I clearly felt the Lord leading. Now, as a very non-Greek in a very Greek church, I find myself struggling with the problem in reverse. The few single men I have met have largely been "cradle" Orthodoxy and while they may feel very strongly about their faith (though I have not found that to be true) they do not understand the journey that I just took and what it cost.

Maybe I shall take Frederica's advice and go hang out in a Denny's near an Orthodox seminary while reading Patristic writings.

Regarding being an assertive woman--I'm in my early 30's and if something needs to get done, I have to do it. I would be more than willing to abandon career for family and engage in a traditional relationship, but my life does not look like that right now. I work, I have to, I do my own projects around the house, which I own, etc. But I'm sure that men find that off-putting. I appear to need a man like a fish needs a bicycle. However, that is not true.

Don't have much time to write, but this is such an important (albeit sometimes depressing) topic. I always thought I would meet my husband in college and get married, like my parents did, though of course the world was different even 30 years ago and my mom left college after her third year, while I went on to law school and wanted to have a career. When college ended with my being single, I was stumped. I ended up meeting my husband accidentally (rather - by Grace) on random message boards five years ago - we started emailing and becoming friends after I found out he was an Irish fan (so college did lead me to my husband after all!), but most importantly that he was also Catholic. We met in person after a few months, dated long distance two years until I finished school, were engaged a year later and are now recently married. I can't recommend posting on random message boards as a way to meet people who share your faith and values, though, and I am completely sympathetic to the way the culture makes it so hard to find people and especially to date chastely. [N.B. - Yes, it's a challenge to date chastely when you're in your mid-20s, in love, and together for years before marriage, but it can be done!] My siblings are all in the same boat right now. I think if I hadn't met my husband the way I did or if it hadn't worked out, I would continue to look to church groups to meet people even though, as other posters have noted, that can be a challenge. Many dioceses sponsor Theology on Taps and other events geared towards 20 and 30-somethings which in my experience are great. I also know people who have met through Catholic Singles and similar sites, and also through alumni groups. My sister has dated some people from the alumni group in her city and my brothers are getting involved in theirs. (My family all went to public schools growing up, but all of us went to Catholic colleges which I think was really important for us.)

I wouldn't say categorically reject even though I know of men who have done so. Rather than avoid, maybe I should just say extreme caution is necessary. As my mother said referring to herself, "I think I'm a good Mom, but I am a lousy step-mother." It is very difficult caring for children one assumes in the marriage of a parent with children. Divorce rarely ends the relationship between the child's parents, and those battles become the new spouse's battles. Many a second wife has complained about the money going to the first wife.

The big point of point 4 was for single folks to recognize when they are seeking out destructive relationships. I remember having this conversation with an in-law. She told me it wasn't fair to hold her boyfriend's two children from different mothers against him; people change. I told her it wasn't wise for her to be the proving ground to establish whether he had changed; she didn't have to give everyone a chance. Of course, this wasn't the first time she had had such a relationship. As for where they are today, they are moving in together unmarried, because he has to make sure she's commited first.

Would I be out of line if I took this opportunity to plug the Orthodox singles conference I'm co-organising next summer. It's still in the planning stages at present, but I'll post more details if people don't object.

Wow. Thanks for starting this conversation.

Where to even begin? I am not only smart, educated, yearning for a Master's degree next, but I am also in the Army! Triple Scary. I don't mean to come across as intimidating, but I think I do. I'm just excited about whatever I am talking about at the moment - and I do talk. I am also dense to the point of abtuse as far as reading social cues. I wouldn't know a guy liked me if he hit me over the head with a heart-shaped board!

I wish I could just broadcast out there: I don't intend to make the Army a career. But I don't regret serving. I wish nothing more in life right now than a kitchen and a collie dog at my feet - things I cannot have as a soldier. I am strong in my faith and believe in the permanent things, even if my politics aren't perfectly conservative. I'm evangelical leaning towards liturgical. I can't wait to be a mother. My own mother would be elated if I were to do so sooner rather than later. ;) I'm looking for another bookworm, with a sense of humor and some ambition, who shares my commitment to faith. I'll even cook and clean for you, though I don't claim to be great at either and sure would appreciate a little help.

There. Maybe we should start our own singles column? Anyone else want to post? ? ? :D

I guess what I'd say to men, is don't be afraid of the seemingly intimidating women. We may be covering up a somewhat softer person inside. And we all should pay more attention to traditional matchmaker roles - the nosy aunt or elderly couple in your church or whatnot. It might or might not work out, but it's worth a shot, no?

'There’s this attitude these days that “kids” in their late teens or early 20s are too immature to get married or have children, even though throughout most of human history this was the norm.'

absolutely, in all cultures of the past girl 25+ was called an old bride, and even now elderly women in the country think the earlier girl marries the better, they would say that if a woman is not married by 23 it is a misfortune, something wrong with her.

Masha – Although I married young myself, I do think it’s a welcome change that we no longer think there is something wrong with someone who isn’t married by age 25. But at the same time, I think we’ve now gone too far in the other direction, to the point where we think there’s something wrong with someone who does marry young.

Julia – As I said in a previous comment, I think we really need to get rid of this notion that the man should always make the first move. You don’t sound shy; why not ask someone out yourself? Of course, you might still not have any luck, but it couldn’t hurt.

Julia, when your girl grows up read
her a fairy tale: http://home.wanadoo.nl/scarletsails/

As for me, I would better sit at the shore and look if scarlet sails appear rather than search like diogene with lamp :)

Even as a teenager, what I found among young women was that the smart, interesting ones generally weren't Christians, and the Christians often seemed to really do everything they could to not appear smart or interesting. (There's also the fact that I was a rather dorky teenager... as Larry Miller might say, "...but never mind that now!") In high school I dated two nominal Christians, both who turned out to be pagans in practice, one of whom is somebody with whom I am still in touch as a friend, the other being somebody who, even twelve years later, I wouldn't walk across the street to talk to (and that feeling is mutual, I'm sure).

In college I met a very interesting, very smart, very attractive girl... who was an atheist (having been raised Catholic). For various reasons, I gave it a shot. Six weeks later I broke it off; not so much because of her atheism but because I just couldn't quite get my gut to react to her, as much as my head wanted it to. We stayed friends; I had nothing against her by any means. She was, as I said, very interesting, very smart, and very attractive. It had more to do with me than it did with her.

A year later, she converted (reverted?) to Christianity (albeit Evangelical Protestantism, not the Catholicism of her youth), as part of a greater religious reawakening on the part of her whole family. I slapped my forehead repeatedly because I was by this time, unfortunately, in one of my "What the h*ll were you thinking?" relationships with yet another pagan, only a few months into the two or three years that I let myself be miserable (and made her miserable to boot) because I thought it was a humane and practical thing to do. (Franklin, you identified this particular pagan some time ago as a "fuzzy bunny.") Men, we're stupid sometimes, and that really doesn't work in our favor when we complain.

Three years after her con/reversion, we fell back into each other's lives (in no way by chance, me, my gut, and my head having decided that there was unfinished business there), and we were dating seriously. We knew we wanted going to church together to be part of our relationship; I was trying to be a high-church Episcopalian (difficult to do in the Pacific Northwest), she was still Evangelical Girl, but she decided to try my church first. She was hooked after the first Sunday; two years later (six and a half years ago), we were married.

The moral: A common faith is the cornerstone of a good relationship that turns into a wonderful marriage, but smart, interesting, attractive atheists can be turned around. Don't "missionary date", but you never know what might happen with people like this if you become friends with them. The way it worked out, factoring out the six weeks of the first attempt at dating, we were friends for four years before we really got serious, and that turned out to be a really good thing. God's road is often more windy (as in lots of curves, not lots of storms) and less straightforward than we might want, but He knows where He's leading us even when we haven't the slightest clue.

Richard

Similar values are crucial, otherwise the relationship can be a powerder keg when the kids come, a political election looms, or many other instances.

I wanted to respond to Sarah who responded to my post. Bingo, you said what I forgot to say, fear of commitment, commitment, commitment. The cult of the self- which abortion, contraception, all forms of vanity and materialism- are derived from, is that which is preventing relationships from working today.

You seem like you're a little older than I am, but do you live in Philadelphia by any chance? haha

Julie and I were talking about this thread the other day, and I mentioned how wonderful it is that we live in a time of unprecedented freedom in our personal lives. One can marry when one feels ready, or not marry at all. One can have children, or not. One can marry, for the most part, whomever one wants to. Society's expectations (which is to say, restrictions) on individual choice when it comes to mating have never been lower.

And yet, this freedom of choice seems to have paralyzed so many of us. We are afraid to choose, afraid to commit. We want commitment, and all that entails, but we find that there's so little social support for those who have chosen to commit themselves in marriage. In our society, if one partner has buyer's remorse (so to speak), he or she can fairly easily extricate himself or herself from the marriage -- the knowledge of which fact ratchets up the pressure on young people to Choose Wisely.

In many ways, perhaps most ways, relations between men and women have never been easier. I've enjoyed close friendships with women since my teenage years, friendships that were never ambiguously romantic or physical. These kinds of friendships would have been awkward at best in my parents' generation. I appreciate that it's easier today for men and women to see each other as just people, rather than the mysterious Other. On the other hand, the price we pay for that freedom is a loss of clear rules of courtship, so it's difficult for men and women to figure out how they should view and treat each other. The whole dating thing becomes fraught with anxiety because nobody knows the rules. The path in my parents' generation was a lot narrower, but also clearer.

Jen wrote early in the thread:

Dating in this culture has become a soulless exercise in marketing.

The underlying cultural expectation has remained the same for a very long time. Our modern marketing culture is just the latest, greatest innovation around it.

1) Marriage is an accomplishment rather than an expression.

2) Finding and keeping a mate is based on the notion of possession and ownership instead of partnership and commitment.

Those bare statements leave alot to be clarified, I know. I will confess that the implied criticism -- that too many people of all stripes say that they are committing but aren't actually doing it -- is accurate.

So, dating becomes a process: here I am, see how sexy-smart-rich-edgy I am; meet me and negotiate with me; buy me and own me. The other side of that coin, of course, is that the "me" is hearing the same statements from the (potential) mate.

In our society, if one partner has buyer's remorse (so to speak), he or she can fairly easily extricate himself or herself from the marriage -- the knowledge of which fact ratchets up the pressure on young people to Choose Wisely.

Rod, and I presume Julie at least by extension, I think it's actually much worse than that. I think that the pressure is just the opposite: hurry up and claim the prize before someone else does, and don't worry if the prize turns out to be a dud. You can always throw the fish back and try again (but you better be sure, because even just one year can put you at a severe disadvantage vs. the competition.) My cynical view is that each principle so stated is a fallacy. Each successive generation has been deliberately discouraged from a reasoned, deliberated approach to mating. I know that many dismiss it as immoral, but I do find that the "living together" experience can result in an actual committed partnership, because that much proximity and intimacy makes hiding the wart all the more difficult, and the only person to blame for not seeing the warts is the person who refused to pay attention.

The values we should be teaching our children are: be free and open to dating, and be precise in the phases and levels of commitment involved; balance the good feelings and satisfied hormones with a reasoned, rational view that if you don't have enough information about the person to know what sort of mate sie will be, don't take the next step. No, living together is not a requirement, but some similar effort to acquire the information is required, or you are throwing the rest of your life on a toss of the dice. Would you rather make a decision based on facts, or trust to luck?

With all due respect to those who find prayer to be integral to their daily lives, a mate is not something one can leave to the good graces of God. Instead, the worn out cliche does have some wisdom to it: God helps those who help themselves.

Franklin,

Another slightly complicated matter here, but prayer is not opposed to action. Reflecting on the life of Christ and praying more generally are attempts to shape oneself according to the will of God; it's quite an active process.

In any case, as some of the commenters said, taking one's time as a single to deepen one's prayer life and make oneself into the type of person who will have a happy and holy marriage is probably one of the best ways to use that time when nothing seems to be happening.

If Michael Nataro would like at least moral support for his conference for Orthodox singles, it's something I'm interested in. No personal agenda. Old and married, I just think it's important.

I have a few ideas. If he wants to be in touch, I can be tracked down via my [mostly inactive] blog.

I understand that this article/discussion is primarily written for single Christian indiviuals and raises a lot of interesting discussion about dating. So I apologize in advance if my post is too far off track.

If I were to look for a man who has a commitment to their faith; as a 43 year old divorced woman with 3 children, the number of men that would think of considering me would be close to nil. But I don't let that discourage me. I continue to be faithful in my commitment to God and my church family. I also choose to conscientiously love and nuture my children and family.

A friend of mine decided along with me to start a single parent's ministry within our church. But quite honestly, that effort is struggling. First of all, the church is disproportionally populated with single/divorced moms. So of course, the issues are predominatly centered around single moms and we didn't want to exclude single dads. The single parenting ministry was intended to be a source of scriptural encouragement and mutual understanding in the daily struggles of being single parents. One of the issues that seems to come up often is, while I believe all of these single/divorced parents are wonderful and capable, they are looking out to the future with not much hope of finding a likewise spiritually commited partner who is willing to consider them for marriage. This is highly discouraging to their decision to keep the faith. They often will let down their standards because they see no hope of marriage in their future again if they don't. Of course this saddens me, but I can understand the great human need to be loved and to share their life with someone else. So no, I don't agree that divorced people should be seen as a red warning flag, but I do believe that divorced/single parents are put in a terrific bind because generally they are seen as less likely to be spiritually commited to their faith. If anyone has any ideas about how to effectively encourage single parents to keep commited to their faith I would warmly welcome them.

I think finding balance in all areas of your life is essential. Don't be afraid to be who you are. Take some initiative in seeking potential mates. Get yourself out there, volunteer, join a Bible Study, go on a mission trip, start a ministry, plan a picnic, organize a community mission, and show yourself worthy of being a awesome marriage partner. Keep your eyes and ears open, pray for guidance, and don't focus overly on what you may perceive as a lack of eligible individuals.

I am rather perplexed by all the Catholic's who refer to Christian dating as if they consider themselves Christians. It comes straight from the Pope that Catholics are NOT Christian, or vice versa. Christians are Protestants, not to be confused with Catholics. Coming straight from the Pope, purporting to be speaking as God.
And, yes, I speak as a NBM who is 46, and rarely dates. Well, never. Never meet godly women, for that matter. Singles are, for the most part, unwelcome in modern churches. All the classes, all the functions, everything, is for families or students. Sometimes I go to church, hear the sermon, then go home. Not a family in the least. I am unwelcome.
I have my profile on several websites, and have received over 1,300 emails from women. What blew me away, is that many are from the US, and even some of them are as young as 18, even some models and one actress. So what is my problem? Well, that is a story, but I am broke. Can't do anything if you are on Disability, and thus broke.

I am married for over 30 years so dating has changed so much I would hate to be in that circle now. There seems to be no such thing as a date without expectations of it leading to sex. My children and grandchildren say they love the Lord but think nothing about living with someone without benefit of marriage. Even people in my church think they can become members when they are living in sin. I wish more singles would communicate online, by mail, whatever to get to really know someone before they judge them as marriage material based on their looks, stature, finances, ability to dance well, etc. which is what I hear from young people today. I would encourage Christians to keep God first in their lives and everything else will fall into place according to His plan. But, don't be afraid to make friends first and seek the help of others to help you meet compatable prospects.

I've read all the posts for the last week... and there seems to be several common threads of experience. One of these threads pertains to the dating difficulties of Christian singles who are well-educated, career-motivated, and sexually confident-yet-willing-to-wait. Erin Manning, I am so on board with your past experiences... I want a Christian spouse. I want a life mate that rejoices in the Love of GOD just as much as I do. I want to share the joy that faith brings me with my husband. I believe that ALL are welcome in and deserving of GOD's love. However, as a single woman that falls into the above group, I find that there are no Christian forums out there that are openly accepting of the kind of person I am. Why is it that again and again I find that I'm expected to be subordinate to a husband? Or that I should put my reproductive capabilities ahead of my intellectual ones? I don't want to have children, I never have... I give 10% of my salary to an orphanage in a third-world country so that the children there can get an education, health care, books, opportunities. I refuse to be "second" to a husband. I expect to be an equal. Does this make me a "bad" woman, or a "bad" Christian? Sorry to rant, but this is an incredibly sore point with me.
Perhaps we in the Christian community need to let it be more widely known that women aren't valued only for their pre-marital chastity or post-marital reproductive capabilities, but for their minds, hearts, generosity, caring, and humanity.

We should run off and start our own forum. ;)

Once I met in the net a christian, it seems a protestant, who was not married, but waiting while God sends him a decent christian wife seen nothing bad in going to bed with different women, he thought it was not a sin because it was his way to choose and learn if they fit him, a curvy God's road to his future wife, as Richard Barrett put it.
And moreover he said that he will something to remember being old about his naughty youth and his "What the h*ll were you thinking?" relationships, unlike those who hadn't that kind of relationships, in his opinion their youth was dull.
I don't know if such views are typical for protestant christians, it was on a discussion board and noone noted that it was strange for a christian, so maybe it is typical, he believes that God is tolerant, he will not judge strict and also that God chosen americans to combat the world's evil.

P.S.
Even if noone will read, I entered this topic to free conscience: sorry that i said bad words about my father here, i remember how we fed ducks at the zoo so many years ago.He was good in his way.

Community Investments Magazine: Volume 19, Issue 1, 2007
This issue of Community Investments focuses on rural community and economic development issues, highlighting ways that practitioners and policy-makers are shifting their efforts toward the development of local assets, such as building leadership and entrepreneurial capacity, and looking for innovative ways to leverage limited resources to build housing, improve infrastructure, and reduce poverty.
Women with big tits getting fucked U.S. monetary policy affects all kinds of economic and financial decisions people make in this country—whether to get a loan to buy a new house or car or to start up a company, whether to expand a business by investing in a new plant or equipment, and whether to put savings in a bank, in bonds, or in the stock market, for example. Furthermore, because the U.S. is the largest economy in the world, its monetary policy also has significant economic and financial effects on other countries.

I met my 7-year "partner" on a regular dating website and our spirituality is very different. He had a bad experience with church as a teen and is what I would define as more "new age."

While I'm Christian (studying for ordination), I'm not fundamentalist and believe much of what Catholicism teaches without the strong male hierarchy. Women were seen as having great value by Christ. Much of the traditional sexism in the church is related to interpretation, not God-ordained truth.

Anyway, there are major struggles in any relationship where the two people are not spiritually like-minded. You don't have to be on the same page, but you will be better able to fulfill G-d's plans for your lives if you are at least in the same chapter.

While opposites may attract, compatible people will have more satisfying, purpose-filled lives. So walk softly and carry your morals and values with you ALWAYS. Be willing to develop satisfying frinedships. There's way too much pressure in the Christian community to get married. Seek G-d's purpose in your life, the mate will follow if that's part of The Plan.

Hi!

Have you ever seen that bumper sticker that says, "Real Men Love God"? I believe that's true because Jesus is about love, to which there is no end. If you look at a real manly guy who is a good citizen and loves his family but does not acknowledge God, is he anymore feminine than a Christian guy? God is not passive but we sometimes make Him out to be because we don't read the Bible or have a chance to get involved in a Bible study either because we're too busy or we don't know about them (Campus Crusade for Christ is a good one if at college, find it, it meets somewhere on campus). Following Jesus is the hardest thing I've ever done and am I doing it perfectly, no, which hurts but not giving up leads to bigger and better things. Check out Paul formerly known as Saul in the Bible, a good example.

On dating, I've had several dating experiences both Christian and non-Christian. If you do all the physical stuff when meeting someone, you have a good chance of suppressing getting to know one another. As a Christian dating, my experience has lead me to think it would be best to get to know a girl/guy who's a Christian first, know what you're looking for in a mate, and treat her right, ask for strength from God. In my experience physical attraction is big but even bigger is how she treats you when with her, her friends, and family.