Ross Douthat says that Poulos and I are missing the boat on Taibbi's essay. I'm not sure that Ross and I disagree as much as he thinks we do. To be clear, I don't believe that we're going to see...
Here's what I like about Thompson: he's a true believer in federalism. If I understand correctly, subsidiarity is a crunchy con principle, and federalism is an application of subsidiarity. So why do you have zero enthusiam for Fred?
Russell Arben Fox
June 19, 2007 6:16 PM
As I said in comments on Ross's post, Rod, I'm actually hopeful--in the very, very long term, admittedly--for a left-right fusion of a particular sort, simply because I don't believe that the current populist frustration is going to be easily elided by either party, and as much as the renewed prospects of the left might satisfy certain populist demands (in terms of trade, wages, etc.), so long as cultural permissiveness of all sorts is part of their agenda, populist frustration will remain. And that means the prospect for fusion--beginning in either or both parties, or in a new one entirely--will remain as well.
As for Huckabee, if he does end up the Republican nominee, I'd consider the fusion, in small sense or another, to have begun.
Joe Marier
June 19, 2007 6:31 PM
For your sake, and the sake of my Party, I hope Huckabee will be the running mate. He's a good guy, and I don't mind his raising taxes, because hey. It's better than hitting up the federal government for cash.
Cleveland
June 20, 2007 1:48 AM
"As far as 2008 goes, I see my interests losing no matter who wins."
Rod, whether you admit it or not, your interests and the interests of your children depend in large part on whether a Republican-led U.S. and its allies, such as they are, are able to suppress Islamofascism by military and economic means. Heavy reliance on diplomacy with evil, backward people (the Homosocialist Party's stated plan) is dangerous madness.
So, Rod, tell me how your interests will suffer no matter who wins.
Dlaw
June 20, 2007 3:01 AM
Dominionism is really going to be the downfall for you guys.
The 2006 election was a huge change. It marked the downfall of Movement Conservatism. But not all the elements were rejected equally. I would say the militarism is still viable. The anarcho-capitalist "small government" talk took a big hit when bodies started floating down the streets of New Orleans, and anarcho-libertarianism has started to take on an anti-capitalist bent. But it's still viable. Globalization and the primacy of the market are popular, but no longer really associated with Republicans because of Movement Conservativism - big loss.
But what's really offensive to Americans is Dominionism. If Huckabee and especially Brownback make a spectacle of themselves, Conservatives are going to take an enormous hit. While almost all public intellectuals of any note - from pundits to the think-tank-ocracy - are theists, or speak in the terms of theism, and there is no real coherent post-religious theory that is widely accepted, Americans are secular on a casual basis. Dominionists, in my view, represent ideas so out of step with the culture that they offer secular and atheist humanism a way forward simply in reaction to them.
The "Chicago School", market-revering, anarcho-capitalist ideas reinvigorated Conservatism. The intellectual energy was on the Conservative side, plain and simple. The Conservative message was a vibrant, rational, marketplace of ideas logical, practical and virtuous. But when virtue went from being the icing on the cake to the battle cry of a culture war, the Conservatives lost their message.
Liberals have no message, but that's better than having a message people hate.
watsy
June 20, 2007 7:58 AM
The Democratic Party candidates aren't going to run on a far left platform nor will they lead the country from the far left. They'll take Ohio or Florida by positioning themselves in the middle.
I can't think of a time where things looked better for a 3rd party candidate. Bloomberg denies that he's considering a run, but he's dropped the GOP. It's possible that someone else might give it a try, but since it's not possible to do that without a lot of money, I don't see anyone but Bloomberg who could give it a shot.
Jim
June 20, 2007 9:17 AM
If a Left-Right fusion of some sort comes about it will be created by those on the Right who acknowledge that most Americans actually want government to be responsible for health care, the environment, equity in pay, recovery from catestrophic disaster, and so forth and those on the Left who acknowledge that most Americans don't want government to tell them where and how to live, what is and is not permissible speech, and a myriad of other nanny state regulations.
It is more likely that the members of such a coalition coming from the Right will be Crunchy than fiscally conservative because, well, it's all about the money for some. And it's more likely that the members of such a coalition coming from the Left will not come from academia because, well, if you can't control the language, you can't control the argument.
Zak
June 20, 2007 9:45 AM
Cleveland,
What exactly are the "Islamofacists" going to do to me or my children that Giuliani will prevent better than a "homosocialist" like Clinton or Obama? (I have to admit, I haven't seen that one before, and it took me by surprise a little bit. It really kills debate, doesn't it?) Good Homeland Security/intelligence work protects us from actual terrorist attacks within the United States more than attacking Muslim countries does, so I'm not sure how much I have to fear from a "homosocialist" administration that properly funds homeland security for ports and mass transit systems, makes to reduce the available resources for creating radiological weapons, and cooperates more on intelligence with allies in Europe (from whose countries our attackers are most likely to come). Sure, the Dems may make the FBI take an hour of court time for a warrant before they wiretap whomever they want, but somehow I don't think that will be the tipping point in favor of the "Islamofascists."
DLaw, whose "Dominionist" political theory (theology?) is supposed to scare or infuriate all Americans? Huckabee? Have you heard the man talk? If people listen to him, they'll see his "awww, shucks," common-sense style of talking about helping the poor, protecting life, and helping families. I don't think he can win, but I don't think he'll cause much backlash except from people who already use terms like Christianist or who believe that anyone trying to have a coherent political philosophy drawing on faith is a dominionist (at least if such a person opposes abortion.
Eric
June 20, 2007 10:19 AM
What is a Dominionist? Is this an actual philosophy or is it a term with negative conotations used to describe "people I don't like" similar to "neocon," "Christianist" or "fundamentalist?"
All this ideology ... not to be condemning ... if people would start banding together to put the brakes on this out of control, fast lane lifestyle that most of the people in power seem to be intent on perpetuating (because it is an electible, mainstream position that has the most promise of "success") and make this a third party that engages not only politics but also culture and lifestyle, starting small, patient concerning growth("oak tree" style), a real transformation might begin to happen in our society.
Sadly the Green party would own this approach but they are not culturally conservative. I think a culturally conservative effort like this would be convincing to people in our heartland.
But you can't slow down if economic performance is your priority (the Holy Scriptures call this the love of mammon). Can the Republican Party make this shift? I don't think so. I would be happy if they proved me wrong. I would be happy if the Democrats would do it, but that's even less likely.
A focus on the local- shifting power to the local government- would be part of this.
Jeff Sullivan
June 20, 2007 12:24 PM
Anyway, if Romney/Giuliani/McCain/Thompson should win the presidency next year, I would have to work awfully hard to find that exciting news.
Rod, you might console yourself with the likelihood that any of the four GOP dudes you mention would, as President, nominate strict constructionists to the Supreme Court. At a minimum, they would be a helluva lot likelier to do so than Hillary or Obama. As bad as Bush has been, would John Kerry have nominated the likes of John Roberts or Samuel Alito, or would he have chosen a clone of Ruth Bader Ginsburg?
Okay, okay..."somewhat consoling" does not mean it's "exciting". I get your point.
Anduril
June 20, 2007 3:30 PM
Is this an actual philosophy or is it a term with negative conotations used to describe "people I don't like" similar to "neocon," "Christianist" or "fundamentalist?"
Based on the wikipedia article - the latter, apparently.
Cleveland
June 20, 2007 11:45 PM
TEST TEST
Cleveland
June 21, 2007 12:39 AM
Per Zak: "Cleveland, what exactly are the 'Islamofacists' going to do to me or my children that Giuliani will prevent better than a 'homosocialist' like Clinton or Obama?"
He or any Republican would, more forcefully than any homosocialist, try to bring stability to the Mideast, thereby denying Islamofascists the use of Iraq as a base for breeding, training and financing (with oil money) more generations of terrorists, in league with a nuclear-armed Iran, and other Islamofascists
. But you knew that, Zak.
Per Zak: "(I have to admit, I haven't seen that one [homosocialist] before, and it took me by surprise a little bit. It really kills debate, doesn't it?)"
It didn't kill this debate, did it? In my experience, it's been a debate starter, because it's a good description of the current party's bedrock supporters. Sex without restrictions and money--the two liberal gods.
Per Zak: "Good Homeland Security/intelligence work protects us from actual terrorist attacks within the United States more than attacking Muslim countries does, so I'm not sure how much I have to fear from a "homosocialist" administration that properly funds homeland security for ports and mass transit systems, makes to reduce the available resources for creating radiological weapons, and cooperates more on intelligence with allies in Europe (from whose countries our attackers are most likely to come)."
There never will be such a strong, effective, patriotic homosocialist administration; we both know that.
Per Zak: "Sure, the Dems may make the FBI take an hour of court time for a warrant before they wiretap whomever they want, but somehow I don't think that will be the tipping point in favor of the 'Islamofascists.'"
See what I mean? Besides, that's a strawman.
My point stands--Rod's interests will be much better served by a Republican winner in 2008. We will be far more secure, AND we will have lower taxes (and thus a better, stronger economy), and be a more moral society rather than a Hollywood/Euro-filth society.
aaron
June 21, 2007 1:06 PM
I like the comedy routine Cleveland.
Zak
June 21, 2007 4:00 PM
Cleveland,
What single thing has Bush done to make us a more moral society? The growing consensus in favor of torture (including its portrayal in the media and its popularity among Republican presidential candidates belies your point). By ignoring the plight of those who are not prosperous, or by only paying lipservice to them, has this administration improved our nation's morality?
To millions of Americans, the economy certainly doesn't seem strong, and given the fact that it is based on massive borrowing from foreign lenders (like China and the Gulf states) in order to finance our budget and current account deficits, I could see there point.
As for security, the things I listed are all part of the Dems' current positions on homeland security. As for bringing stability to the middle east, well, the Republican candidate may also try to bring the Pacific Ocean to the moon, but he'll have about as much success. And if you think treating any Muslim who dislikes America or practices a form of Islamism as a member of an "Islamofascist" alliance is going to make things more stable, than I recommend going to Baghdad and seeing if insulting Muhammad is another useful means to that end.
Am I worried that an abandoned Iraq could turn into another terrorist haven like Afghanistan was pre-invasion? Yes, although I think a credible case could be made the al Qaeda will end up being a casualty in the civil war that will probably take place after we leave. Especially now that we're arming Sunni militias that don't like them.
As for the main things most Democrats want, I think the chief issues for them right now are leaving Iraq, because they think we can't win and we're doing more harm than good by staying, and improving the economic security of lower middle class families. It's not gay orgies after getting home from not working at the state-owned factories. There is a certain component of the Democratic party that does care disproportionately about sexual liberation, but they are relatively few and concentrated among the party elite or a couple vocal subgroups. For the rest, issues like gay marriage (which around 50% of Dems still oppose, I believe) are, at most, a case of live-and-let-live.
There's a possibility I will vote for the Republican in 2008, but if I do so it will be because I think they will protect unborn life and continue not to fund embryonic stem cell research from destroyed embryos, not because I think they are will keep us safer, more economically secure, or more moral than the "homosocialists" will.
The big problem of your commentary is that you have stereotyped and demonised your enemies, "Islamofascists" and "homosocialists" so much that you don't understand them and can't defeat them in the first case or debate them in the latter. Both labels obscure more than they clarify.
Cleveland
June 21, 2007 7:39 PM
Per Zak: "Cleveland,
What single thing has Bush done to make us a more moral society? The growing consensus in favor of torture (including its portrayal in the media and its popularity among Republican presidential candidates belies your point). By ignoring the plight of those who are not prosperous, or by only paying lip service to them, has this administration improved our nation's morality?"
Well, my friend, just off the top of my head, he (1) prevented the destruction of human embryos with our tax money years ago while others would have done the opposite, (2) just vetoed another immoral bill passed for the purpose of endearing Democrats with the homosocialist crazies, (3) expanded medicare, which was a god-send for "those who are not prosperous", rather than ignoring their plight with the lip service Democrats are known for, (4) tried to fix social security (relied on heavily by "those who are not prosperous") while it's doable with only modest pain to our pocketbooks, while being ridiculed, immorally, for his efforts by Democrats on the hill and in the media, (5) protected religion in schools and public life, which drives the homosocialists to drink more than they normally do (which I know because a few are my friends), and (6) instilled a more moral attitude in this country by his speech, appointments to two branches of the government, and refusal to get in the political gutter with his homosocialist enemies on the hill, in the media and organizations such as moveon.org and mediamatters.
And, please, Zak, stop furthering the homosocialist lie--I said lie--that the president permits or favors torture. That's calumny and a sin against him, this country and God. The Islamofascists, who use torture as a basic tool of their terrorism, just love to see him tarred with it. They do in fact take aid and comfort from seeing Americans eat their own.
"To millions of Americans, the economy certainly doesn't seem strong...".
Who cares what it "seems" like? It IS strong, despite the homosocialist's daily attempts to lie to their ignorant, lazy constituency.
"And if you think treating any Muslim who dislikes America or practices a form of Islamism as a member of an "Islamofascist" alliance is going to make things more stable, than I recommend going to Baghdad and seeing if insulting Muhammad is another useful means to that end".
Zak, I would never go to Baghdad to insult Islamofascists. I would, however, go there and elsewhere to kill them. Force is all they respect, whether you believe it or not, and thanks to 12 years of Carter and Clinton, and now Pelosi, Reid, Murtha and their ilk, they believe the U.S. soon will revert to homosocialist form. See Vietnam.
Zak, in all honesty, I really do respect your advice as to language and its effects. In the proper places and times-- political and religious diplomacy, for example--there is no valid use of terms such as homosocialist and Islamofascist. My use of such terms is meant to bluntly but accurately describe the Democrats and Islamists who hide behind such honorable labels, but who detest my Christian beliefs, and who constantly strive to take away my traditions and liberties, and in some cases my life. Be nice? Like hell! I'm retired and don't have to bite my tongue and be a diplomat with snakes (any more).
I wasn't going to respond to you because we are getting into the weeds here. The topic is which party will better serve Rod's interest, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that you are prolife, and therefore very worth while to rescue from your political delusions :-).
Zak
June 22, 2007 9:21 AM
Cleveland,
Thank you for your concern for me. :-) In every election I have trouble finding a politician I actually believe in or agree with. I think you tend to ignore or by into Republican propaganda about the problems of the Bush administration (its incompetence, its policies that make Americans less economically secure, and its willingness to engage in twisted casuistry to justify what is in fact reasonably considered torture), but I agree that we can stop arguing about such things. I just don't accept the argument that because many Democrats are bad, somehow the Republicans are good. I accept that you use what I consider intemperate language out of a desire to call things as they are.
Cleveland
June 22, 2007 3:31 PM
Zak, you misjudge your humble interlocutor. Never did I say Republicans are pure as the wind-driven snow. I spent 33 years in DC and know better. But, although there are a few Hill whores even among Republicans, the party leaders and the platform are morally and economically light years ahead of the now decadent Democrats (the majority of whom I intemperately but accurately refer to Homosocialists).
As to torture, it never was allowed. Water boarding MAY have been used in a few cases to save American cities and lives (I think that's what the incompetent George Tennant meant in his book), but so what? Our own troops are exposed to it in advanced training to prove that it will not harm you; it's simply not "torture". To save American cities I would hold my nose and accept its use against evil aggressors--this from someone who believes that evil can never be used to secure good, i.e., water boarding and the like are not always evil in times of war.
Zak, I will give you this: George W also is incompetent--he kept Tennant on the job along with other liberals in the CIA, State and Justice Departments (including the U.S. DAs); he appointed two incompetents as Secretaries of Treasury and State; he let a homosocialist author the No Child Left Behind Act (we know how that turned out); and he can't communicate to save his soul--not even to defend us from the vile Hill whores and media. But overall I thank God for him every day, and I mean that seriously.
Cleveland
June 22, 2007 3:59 PM
Sorry for the 3:31 post, please delete it. It didn't look like it went through, so I wrote another one.
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.
Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
Subscribe
Sign Up: Receive Crunchy Con in your in-box every day
Rod,
Here's what I like about Thompson: he's a true believer in federalism. If I understand correctly, subsidiarity is a crunchy con principle, and federalism is an application of subsidiarity. So why do you have zero enthusiam for Fred?
As I said in comments on Ross's post, Rod, I'm actually hopeful--in the very, very long term, admittedly--for a left-right fusion of a particular sort, simply because I don't believe that the current populist frustration is going to be easily elided by either party, and as much as the renewed prospects of the left might satisfy certain populist demands (in terms of trade, wages, etc.), so long as cultural permissiveness of all sorts is part of their agenda, populist frustration will remain. And that means the prospect for fusion--beginning in either or both parties, or in a new one entirely--will remain as well.
As for Huckabee, if he does end up the Republican nominee, I'd consider the fusion, in small sense or another, to have begun.
For your sake, and the sake of my Party, I hope Huckabee will be the running mate. He's a good guy, and I don't mind his raising taxes, because hey. It's better than hitting up the federal government for cash.
"As far as 2008 goes, I see my interests losing no matter who wins."
Rod, whether you admit it or not, your interests and the interests of your children depend in large part on whether a Republican-led U.S. and its allies, such as they are, are able to suppress Islamofascism by military and economic means. Heavy reliance on diplomacy with evil, backward people (the Homosocialist Party's stated plan) is dangerous madness.
So, Rod, tell me how your interests will suffer no matter who wins.
Dominionism is really going to be the downfall for you guys.
The 2006 election was a huge change. It marked the downfall of Movement Conservatism. But not all the elements were rejected equally. I would say the militarism is still viable. The anarcho-capitalist "small government" talk took a big hit when bodies started floating down the streets of New Orleans, and anarcho-libertarianism has started to take on an anti-capitalist bent. But it's still viable. Globalization and the primacy of the market are popular, but no longer really associated with Republicans because of Movement Conservativism - big loss.
But what's really offensive to Americans is Dominionism. If Huckabee and especially Brownback make a spectacle of themselves, Conservatives are going to take an enormous hit. While almost all public intellectuals of any note - from pundits to the think-tank-ocracy - are theists, or speak in the terms of theism, and there is no real coherent post-religious theory that is widely accepted, Americans are secular on a casual basis. Dominionists, in my view, represent ideas so out of step with the culture that they offer secular and atheist humanism a way forward simply in reaction to them.
The "Chicago School", market-revering, anarcho-capitalist ideas reinvigorated Conservatism. The intellectual energy was on the Conservative side, plain and simple. The Conservative message was a vibrant, rational, marketplace of ideas logical, practical and virtuous. But when virtue went from being the icing on the cake to the battle cry of a culture war, the Conservatives lost their message.
Liberals have no message, but that's better than having a message people hate.
The Democratic Party candidates aren't going to run on a far left platform nor will they lead the country from the far left. They'll take Ohio or Florida by positioning themselves in the middle.
I can't think of a time where things looked better for a 3rd party candidate. Bloomberg denies that he's considering a run, but he's dropped the GOP. It's possible that someone else might give it a try, but since it's not possible to do that without a lot of money, I don't see anyone but Bloomberg who could give it a shot.
If a Left-Right fusion of some sort comes about it will be created by those on the Right who acknowledge that most Americans actually want government to be responsible for health care, the environment, equity in pay, recovery from catestrophic disaster, and so forth and those on the Left who acknowledge that most Americans don't want government to tell them where and how to live, what is and is not permissible speech, and a myriad of other nanny state regulations.
It is more likely that the members of such a coalition coming from the Right will be Crunchy than fiscally conservative because, well, it's all about the money for some. And it's more likely that the members of such a coalition coming from the Left will not come from academia because, well, if you can't control the language, you can't control the argument.
Cleveland,
What exactly are the "Islamofacists" going to do to me or my children that Giuliani will prevent better than a "homosocialist" like Clinton or Obama? (I have to admit, I haven't seen that one before, and it took me by surprise a little bit. It really kills debate, doesn't it?) Good Homeland Security/intelligence work protects us from actual terrorist attacks within the United States more than attacking Muslim countries does, so I'm not sure how much I have to fear from a "homosocialist" administration that properly funds homeland security for ports and mass transit systems, makes to reduce the available resources for creating radiological weapons, and cooperates more on intelligence with allies in Europe (from whose countries our attackers are most likely to come). Sure, the Dems may make the FBI take an hour of court time for a warrant before they wiretap whomever they want, but somehow I don't think that will be the tipping point in favor of the "Islamofascists."
DLaw, whose "Dominionist" political theory (theology?) is supposed to scare or infuriate all Americans? Huckabee? Have you heard the man talk? If people listen to him, they'll see his "awww, shucks," common-sense style of talking about helping the poor, protecting life, and helping families. I don't think he can win, but I don't think he'll cause much backlash except from people who already use terms like Christianist or who believe that anyone trying to have a coherent political philosophy drawing on faith is a dominionist (at least if such a person opposes abortion.
What is a Dominionist? Is this an actual philosophy or is it a term with negative conotations used to describe "people I don't like" similar to "neocon," "Christianist" or "fundamentalist?"
For an article on Dominionism:
Click here for wikipedia
All this ideology ... not to be condemning ... if people would start banding together to put the brakes on this out of control, fast lane lifestyle that most of the people in power seem to be intent on perpetuating (because it is an electible, mainstream position that has the most promise of "success") and make this a third party that engages not only politics but also culture and lifestyle, starting small, patient concerning growth("oak tree" style), a real transformation might begin to happen in our society.
Sadly the Green party would own this approach but they are not culturally conservative. I think a culturally conservative effort like this would be convincing to people in our heartland.
But you can't slow down if economic performance is your priority (the Holy Scriptures call this the love of mammon). Can the Republican Party make this shift? I don't think so. I would be happy if they proved me wrong. I would be happy if the Democrats would do it, but that's even less likely.
A focus on the local- shifting power to the local government- would be part of this.
Anyway, if Romney/Giuliani/McCain/Thompson should win the presidency next year, I would have to work awfully hard to find that exciting news.
Rod, you might console yourself with the likelihood that any of the four GOP dudes you mention would, as President, nominate strict constructionists to the Supreme Court. At a minimum, they would be a helluva lot likelier to do so than Hillary or Obama. As bad as Bush has been, would John Kerry have nominated the likes of John Roberts or Samuel Alito, or would he have chosen a clone of Ruth Bader Ginsburg?
Okay, okay..."somewhat consoling" does not mean it's "exciting". I get your point.
Is this an actual philosophy or is it a term with negative conotations used to describe "people I don't like" similar to "neocon," "Christianist" or "fundamentalist?"
Based on the wikipedia article - the latter, apparently.
TEST TEST
Per Zak: "Cleveland, what exactly are the 'Islamofacists' going to do to me or my children that Giuliani will prevent better than a 'homosocialist' like Clinton or Obama?"
He or any Republican would, more forcefully than any homosocialist, try to bring stability to the Mideast, thereby denying Islamofascists the use of Iraq as a base for breeding, training and financing (with oil money) more generations of terrorists, in league with a nuclear-armed Iran, and other Islamofascists
. But you knew that, Zak.
Per Zak: "(I have to admit, I haven't seen that one [homosocialist] before, and it took me by surprise a little bit. It really kills debate, doesn't it?)"
It didn't kill this debate, did it? In my experience, it's been a debate starter, because it's a good description of the current party's bedrock supporters. Sex without restrictions and money--the two liberal gods.
Per Zak: "Good Homeland Security/intelligence work protects us from actual terrorist attacks within the United States more than attacking Muslim countries does, so I'm not sure how much I have to fear from a "homosocialist" administration that properly funds homeland security for ports and mass transit systems, makes to reduce the available resources for creating radiological weapons, and cooperates more on intelligence with allies in Europe (from whose countries our attackers are most likely to come)."
There never will be such a strong, effective, patriotic homosocialist administration; we both know that.
Per Zak: "Sure, the Dems may make the FBI take an hour of court time for a warrant before they wiretap whomever they want, but somehow I don't think that will be the tipping point in favor of the 'Islamofascists.'"
See what I mean? Besides, that's a strawman.
My point stands--Rod's interests will be much better served by a Republican winner in 2008. We will be far more secure, AND we will have lower taxes (and thus a better, stronger economy), and be a more moral society rather than a Hollywood/Euro-filth society.
I like the comedy routine Cleveland.
Cleveland,
What single thing has Bush done to make us a more moral society? The growing consensus in favor of torture (including its portrayal in the media and its popularity among Republican presidential candidates belies your point). By ignoring the plight of those who are not prosperous, or by only paying lipservice to them, has this administration improved our nation's morality?
To millions of Americans, the economy certainly doesn't seem strong, and given the fact that it is based on massive borrowing from foreign lenders (like China and the Gulf states) in order to finance our budget and current account deficits, I could see there point.
As for security, the things I listed are all part of the Dems' current positions on homeland security. As for bringing stability to the middle east, well, the Republican candidate may also try to bring the Pacific Ocean to the moon, but he'll have about as much success. And if you think treating any Muslim who dislikes America or practices a form of Islamism as a member of an "Islamofascist" alliance is going to make things more stable, than I recommend going to Baghdad and seeing if insulting Muhammad is another useful means to that end.
Am I worried that an abandoned Iraq could turn into another terrorist haven like Afghanistan was pre-invasion? Yes, although I think a credible case could be made the al Qaeda will end up being a casualty in the civil war that will probably take place after we leave. Especially now that we're arming Sunni militias that don't like them.
As for the main things most Democrats want, I think the chief issues for them right now are leaving Iraq, because they think we can't win and we're doing more harm than good by staying, and improving the economic security of lower middle class families. It's not gay orgies after getting home from not working at the state-owned factories. There is a certain component of the Democratic party that does care disproportionately about sexual liberation, but they are relatively few and concentrated among the party elite or a couple vocal subgroups. For the rest, issues like gay marriage (which around 50% of Dems still oppose, I believe) are, at most, a case of live-and-let-live.
There's a possibility I will vote for the Republican in 2008, but if I do so it will be because I think they will protect unborn life and continue not to fund embryonic stem cell research from destroyed embryos, not because I think they are will keep us safer, more economically secure, or more moral than the "homosocialists" will.
The big problem of your commentary is that you have stereotyped and demonised your enemies, "Islamofascists" and "homosocialists" so much that you don't understand them and can't defeat them in the first case or debate them in the latter. Both labels obscure more than they clarify.
Per Zak: "Cleveland,
What single thing has Bush done to make us a more moral society? The growing consensus in favor of torture (including its portrayal in the media and its popularity among Republican presidential candidates belies your point). By ignoring the plight of those who are not prosperous, or by only paying lip service to them, has this administration improved our nation's morality?"
Well, my friend, just off the top of my head, he (1) prevented the destruction of human embryos with our tax money years ago while others would have done the opposite, (2) just vetoed another immoral bill passed for the purpose of endearing Democrats with the homosocialist crazies, (3) expanded medicare, which was a god-send for "those who are not prosperous", rather than ignoring their plight with the lip service Democrats are known for, (4) tried to fix social security (relied on heavily by "those who are not prosperous") while it's doable with only modest pain to our pocketbooks, while being ridiculed, immorally, for his efforts by Democrats on the hill and in the media, (5) protected religion in schools and public life, which drives the homosocialists to drink more than they normally do (which I know because a few are my friends), and (6) instilled a more moral attitude in this country by his speech, appointments to two branches of the government, and refusal to get in the political gutter with his homosocialist enemies on the hill, in the media and organizations such as moveon.org and mediamatters.
And, please, Zak, stop furthering the homosocialist lie--I said lie--that the president permits or favors torture. That's calumny and a sin against him, this country and God. The Islamofascists, who use torture as a basic tool of their terrorism, just love to see him tarred with it. They do in fact take aid and comfort from seeing Americans eat their own.
"To millions of Americans, the economy certainly doesn't seem strong...".
Who cares what it "seems" like? It IS strong, despite the homosocialist's daily attempts to lie to their ignorant, lazy constituency.
"And if you think treating any Muslim who dislikes America or practices a form of Islamism as a member of an "Islamofascist" alliance is going to make things more stable, than I recommend going to Baghdad and seeing if insulting Muhammad is another useful means to that end".
Zak, I would never go to Baghdad to insult Islamofascists. I would, however, go there and elsewhere to kill them. Force is all they respect, whether you believe it or not, and thanks to 12 years of Carter and Clinton, and now Pelosi, Reid, Murtha and their ilk, they believe the U.S. soon will revert to homosocialist form. See Vietnam.
Zak, in all honesty, I really do respect your advice as to language and its effects. In the proper places and times-- political and religious diplomacy, for example--there is no valid use of terms such as homosocialist and Islamofascist. My use of such terms is meant to bluntly but accurately describe the Democrats and Islamists who hide behind such honorable labels, but who detest my Christian beliefs, and who constantly strive to take away my traditions and liberties, and in some cases my life. Be nice? Like hell! I'm retired and don't have to bite my tongue and be a diplomat with snakes (any more).
I wasn't going to respond to you because we are getting into the weeds here. The topic is which party will better serve Rod's interest, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that you are prolife, and therefore very worth while to rescue from your political delusions :-).
Cleveland,
Thank you for your concern for me. :-) In every election I have trouble finding a politician I actually believe in or agree with. I think you tend to ignore or by into Republican propaganda about the problems of the Bush administration (its incompetence, its policies that make Americans less economically secure, and its willingness to engage in twisted casuistry to justify what is in fact reasonably considered torture), but I agree that we can stop arguing about such things. I just don't accept the argument that because many Democrats are bad, somehow the Republicans are good. I accept that you use what I consider intemperate language out of a desire to call things as they are.
Zak, you misjudge your humble interlocutor. Never did I say Republicans are pure as the wind-driven snow. I spent 33 years in DC and know better. But, although there are a few Hill whores even among Republicans, the party leaders and the platform are morally and economically light years ahead of the now decadent Democrats (the majority of whom I intemperately but accurately refer to Homosocialists).
As to torture, it never was allowed. Water boarding MAY have been used in a few cases to save American cities and lives (I think that's what the incompetent George Tennant meant in his book), but so what? Our own troops are exposed to it in advanced training to prove that it will not harm you; it's simply not "torture". To save American cities I would hold my nose and accept its use against evil aggressors--this from someone who believes that evil can never be used to secure good, i.e., water boarding and the like are not always evil in times of war.
Zak, I will give you this: George W also is incompetent--he kept Tennant on the job along with other liberals in the CIA, State and Justice Departments (including the U.S. DAs); he appointed two incompetents as Secretaries of Treasury and State; he let a homosocialist author the No Child Left Behind Act (we know how that turned out); and he can't communicate to save his soul--not even to defend us from the vile Hill whores and media. But overall I thank God for him every day, and I mean that seriously.
Sorry for the 3:31 post, please delete it. It didn't look like it went through, so I wrote another one.
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.