Andrew Sullivan rightly wonders why a neocon like Ralph Peters can point to the carnage in Gaza and conclude that the Arabs can't govern themselves, then turn around and say that we have to remain in Iraq because, well, even...
Ossicle, your link leads to a post talking about the role of homosexuality in Scripture. What this has to do with Iraq stumps me at least.
Rod Dreher
June 15, 2007 5:37 PM
Well, I've not followed that link, but I can assure you that by a strange coincidence, history is on the wrong side of me.
scriblerus
June 15, 2007 6:36 PM
The shame/ honor culture isn't unique to the Middle East and China and Japan have managed to grow their economies in spite of it.
R. Steven Humphreys' "Between Memory and Desire" is a much better look at the social, political and economic conditions that make so many problems in the Middle East so intractable. Essentially, there are a lot of incentives to acting in ways that guarantee short-term survival at the expense of long-term sustainable growth. In the Far East, shame/ honor culture probably played a large role in reinforcing positive behavior.
To give a sense of what Humphreys thinks of the Middle East's chances of change, the title is a reference to the "Wasteland" by T. S. Eliot.
Derek Copold
June 15, 2007 9:19 PM
The comparison to China and Japan is inapt. Both countries have long recognized the problem, and they've taken steps to deal with it. This not just at the top, but across their cultures. While neither society matches up to western standards, they're light years ahead of the Middle East, and have been so for decades.
As to the Arabs, they can govern themselves, just not with democracy.
Norris
June 16, 2007 11:43 AM
I'm surprised no one has made the connection between Bush's efforts to bring Democracy to Iraq and the David Lean film, "Lawrence of Arabia", particularly the ending of the film where Lawrence's hopes for Arab self-rule comes crashing down.
Indeed, the connection provides a great opportunity for some political cartoonist to portray Bush as Peter O'Toole as T.E. Lawrence, complete with keffiyeh and agal.
Derek Copold
June 17, 2007 6:17 PM
Indeed, the connection provides a great opportunity for some political cartoonist to portray Bush as Peter O'Toole as T.E. Lawrence, complete with keffiyeh and agal.
Sure, and it would also be an opportunity for him to lose his job and be excoriated for racism by the usual suspects.
Joseph D'Hippolito
June 18, 2007 2:59 PM
Unfortunately, there's only one lesson to draw from Gaza: The Palestinian Arabs are barbarians and Palestinian culture is a "culture of death" (does that phrase sound familiar, fellow Catholics?). No two-state solution will be possible unless the Palestinians curb their blood-lust for Israel and for each other. Unfortunately, the Arabs will ignore the Palestinians (as they have for decades) because the Palestinians serve as the perfect foil for anti-Israel (and anti-Semitic) policies.
The Middle East is going to get a lot worse before it gets better -- and it will only get better when the Arab Muslims are so humiliated that they will reject their bloodthirstiness and the "religion" that serves as a cover for it.
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Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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All well and good, but I'd also like you to come to terms with _this_ post by Andrew:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/06/scripture_and_h.html
You're on the wrong side of history, Rod.
Ossicle, your link leads to a post talking about the role of homosexuality in Scripture. What this has to do with Iraq stumps me at least.
Well, I've not followed that link, but I can assure you that by a strange coincidence, history is on the wrong side of me.
The shame/ honor culture isn't unique to the Middle East and China and Japan have managed to grow their economies in spite of it.
R. Steven Humphreys' "Between Memory and Desire" is a much better look at the social, political and economic conditions that make so many problems in the Middle East so intractable. Essentially, there are a lot of incentives to acting in ways that guarantee short-term survival at the expense of long-term sustainable growth. In the Far East, shame/ honor culture probably played a large role in reinforcing positive behavior.
To give a sense of what Humphreys thinks of the Middle East's chances of change, the title is a reference to the "Wasteland" by T. S. Eliot.
The comparison to China and Japan is inapt. Both countries have long recognized the problem, and they've taken steps to deal with it. This not just at the top, but across their cultures. While neither society matches up to western standards, they're light years ahead of the Middle East, and have been so for decades.
As to the Arabs, they can govern themselves, just not with democracy.
I'm surprised no one has made the connection between Bush's efforts to bring Democracy to Iraq and the David Lean film, "Lawrence of Arabia", particularly the ending of the film where Lawrence's hopes for Arab self-rule comes crashing down.
Indeed, the connection provides a great opportunity for some political cartoonist to portray Bush as Peter O'Toole as T.E. Lawrence, complete with keffiyeh and agal.
Indeed, the connection provides a great opportunity for some political cartoonist to portray Bush as Peter O'Toole as T.E. Lawrence, complete with keffiyeh and agal.
Sure, and it would also be an opportunity for him to lose his job and be excoriated for racism by the usual suspects.
Unfortunately, there's only one lesson to draw from Gaza: The Palestinian Arabs are barbarians and Palestinian culture is a "culture of death" (does that phrase sound familiar, fellow Catholics?). No two-state solution will be possible unless the Palestinians curb their blood-lust for Israel and for each other. Unfortunately, the Arabs will ignore the Palestinians (as they have for decades) because the Palestinians serve as the perfect foil for anti-Israel (and anti-Semitic) policies.
The Middle East is going to get a lot worse before it gets better -- and it will only get better when the Arab Muslims are so humiliated that they will reject their bloodthirstiness and the "religion" that serves as a cover for it.
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.