The end of Tammy Faye

I think she's suffered enough.

It's important to remember that Tammy Faye was not indicted by the grand jury.

From his book, "Forgiven", Charlotte Observer reporter Charles E. Shepard writes, "A day before the the eighth anniversary of Jessica Hahn's trip to Florida, the federal grand jury in Charlotte indicted Bakker and [PTL President]Dortch for mail fraud, wire fraud, and conspiring to defraud the public through the sale of lifetime [timeshare] partnerships. The indictment alleged that the two men had failed to disclose the true number of partnerships sold to PTL partners and, by the use of the mails and public airwaves, had sold tens of thousands more partnerships than PTL had the lodging to accommodate. The grand jury also accused the men of concealing the Hahn payoff and the true financial condition of PTL from the ministry's board of directors."

The grand jury did not consider her to be an indictable part of the "swindle".
(p552)

Personally, I never quite understood why all bets are off evaluating someone's life and deeds simply because they are either dying or dead. We are all going to die and thus someday be dead. So how does that great equalizer in the sky allow this inevitable ritual of altered state protocol?

Tammy Faye has yes suffered greatly in more than one incarnation era in her après-80s life. And for that I am sincerely sorry. I do not however see what that has to do with anything relevant to the Bakker story of yore.

If Ted Haggard is suddenly announced to be on his death bed, will all be forgiven? Oh, wait- oops; I forgot. Brother Ted now eschews meth and was re-converted into a card-carrying heterosexual after a 3 day intervention. This of course after his three year intercourse--err—discourse/interaction with a male prostitute.

Picky, picky.

All bets are off, Rawlins, because the final judgement of a person's life and worth is the sole privilege of an omniscient God.

MM, I know the drill. All redemption is in the Lord's hands. Faith 101. Those of us on earth cannot pass judgment for eternity. That said, I just see no point in playing the don't ask/don't tell card regarding those who play fast and loose with the law and other people's money....... in God's name no less.

Our accountability is ultimately to God. But that does not mean that we are not accountable to those we harm in real time. Since when is it appropriate dispensation to emulate blind zombies with Alzheimer's relative to public figures, regarding their behavior and deeds among us in our times? There is Passing Judgment and there is passing the torch.

Rod is absolutely correct that she shares a huge moral culpability to which she never owned up. Only God can judge her. But I'm here to remind her. Or anyone else.

Rawlins, one doesn't have to be a blind zombie with Alzheimer's (LOL)
to understand that we'll never see perfect justice in this world. Many lawsuits were brought against PTL, but there was nothing left after the bankruptcy. Caveat Emptor.

Oooh. I think somebody needs a hug.

Rawlins is not saying that at all. He's only making the perfectly legitimate point that while only God can judge the state of her soul, there's nothing wrong with assessing the public life of a public person. I mean, look, if my newspaper chooses to mark her passing with an editorial on the meaning of her life, it won't do to leave out all the bad stuff on the principle that one shouldn't speak ill of the dead. If I am called on to write about the meaning of her life for the newspaper, I will have to point out that in public, at least, she never accepted that she was anything but a victim of the PTL calamity -- even though that conclusion is as shaky as it is self-serving.

No, mm, I don't want to see Tammy Faye humiliated. Who cares, ultimately, about PTL anymore? Still, when I think of her, I think of a ridiculous woman who rode the televangelist gravy train to obscene wealth (an air-conditioned doghouse!), lost it all when her husband got sent to jail for bilking the faithful, and who spent the rest of her life presenting herself as the plucky survivor of injustice. In other words, an amusing fraud. After tonight, I also think of a woman who is in extreme physical pain, and who is suffering as no one should have to suffer. The latter doesn't erase the former in her biography, though perhaps it might redeem it, if you choose to see it that way.

The Christian faith only obliges those who hold it not to pass judgment on the souls of the departed. It does not oblige them to refuse accounting of a person's deeds and character. That's usually a misunderstood point invoked by people who don't want to think ill of someone, but can't think of ground upon which to defend the accused. Regarding the recently departed, it is right to incline toward charity, but unless you're delivering the eulogy, charity does not require a dishonest appraisal. If George W. Bush were to pass away tomorrow, the fact and circumstances of his passing would not, or should not, soften or improve the assessment of his leadership. Right? (Though the journalist Robert Novak, in a WNYC radio interview the other day, observed how unjustifiably the reputation of many US presidents improved after they passed away. Dying was for many of them a good career move.)

but since I could never stomach Falwell, I think I'll just say that at this point, it's really not up to anyone to judge her.

In other words, because she made the right enemies, she gets a pass. What a curious moral calculus that is.

It's not so much that TF minimizes her role in the 'debacle', but that the so-called 'debacle' was not as big a 'swindle' on the part of the Bakker's that most people imagine.

Yes, there was horrible mismanagement, but reports of the Bakker's extravagant lifestyle and even their personal role in the defrauding have been greatly over-assumed.

I wonder if we're not seeing here the consequences of a clericalism, a more medieval attitude than we're prepared to face, among Christians of all sorts, including Orthodox Christians?

In the three decades I've been Orthodox, I have very often heard the insistent declaration that the Orthodox Church is devoid of any form of clericalism, but it doesn't match the disillusionment we see when Orthodox clergy fail in any way to live up to the laity's expectations.

Why should it surprise us when we see "the mighty fallen" even among protestants?

We are all human. Christ is the Judge. We fail. God forgives. But the more "clericalist", the more idolatrous we become, the greater our anguish when we see that our priestly or hierarchical superiors have fallen off their pedestals--pedestals on which we sinners put them in the first place.

Clericalism and idolatry have nothing to do with Christian love, respect and agape. When we cry out at a bishop's consecration "Axios, Axios, Axios!" we need to see ourselves as under obligation to help leaders lead and to help ourselves to follow in love. It's a two-way street, that love between clergy and people, and it's got a solid line down the middle that we cross at our spiritual peril.

I think I read Christ's words about the Church He founded to mean that the Church is a family. Families don't pray together or stick together very well these days, it seems... We'll not be one as Jesus and the Father are one until we become a family again.

Not having seen the whole interview, I must ask why Larry King is having her on. I suspect that the point for him is to attract viewers for a ghastly spectacle; but what is her personal reason for being on? Unless there's a good one, I think the King and the network are odious for allowing her to make herself, once again, be a spectacle for titillation.

I'm inclined to think that Larry King had her on so he could finally have a guest that looks worse than he does. Other than that I have never really understood the fuss about the Bakkers. The provided entertaining spectacle and only fleeced those who were stupid enough to deserve to be fleeced.

And in any event I would have more sympathy for her than I would for those poor dummies. Money is easily replaced but dying tends to be sort of permanent.

Not having seen the whole interview, I must ask why Larry King is having her on. I suspect that the point for him is to attract viewers for a ghastly spectacle; but what is her personal reason for being on? Unless there's a good one, I think the King and the network are odious for allowing her to make herself, once again, be a spectacle for titillation.

King said she approached him about doing an interview. I thought maybe she would want to make some sort of appeal to people to get right with God before they die, or something like that, but there was none of that. I thought afterward, "What was that for?" Eric's post makes me think that she's so addicted to being on TV that she had to have her hit one more time before she faded to black.

God rest the soul of Ms. Faye.

I always love the judge and jury type (that's directed at the Omnipotent Mr. Dreher). "Allege" a term covered in your companies "Rules of Conduct", is a violation. Ever heard of lead by example? If memory serves she was not convicted of any crime. Hence. "her role" w/out evidence and a conviction, is nothing more than your unfounded opinion. Your speech seems to lends itself to hate. Your timing, or the lack there of, is beyond poor!

Tammy Faye was a spiritual hero for me. I loved her very much. She showed me how to be a light in a very dark world. She was an amazing singer (having recorded 25 albums), an inspiring author, and a great mother and grandmother. Tammy always demonstrated unconditional love, and was willing to go where no Christian would go in ministering to the gay community. Pastor Benny Hinn was right when he said, a few years ago, that it's time for the Christians to listen to Tammy again. Seeing her on Larry King on Thursday literally broke my heart, yet I was in awe of her courage and unwavering faith right to the end! She was an amazing example to the world that night, and all throughout her colorful life.

There are so many things that people do not know about Jim Bakker,Tammy Faye Bakker Messner,Roe Messner,Benny Hinn,Jimmy Swaggart,Paul and Jan Crouch,Pat Robertson,etc.,etc. and the so called "Christian world"..One day the truth will come out, and people need to hear it."Judge not least ye be judged",but when you KNOW the truth first hand you can only keep it in for so long.THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE...The truth will set me free.....ONE DAY.