Crunchy Con

"...and settled nowhere"

Monday August 27, 2007

Categories: Culture
A reader sends this: What life have you if you have not life together? There is no life that is not in community, And no community not lived in praise of God. Even the anchorite who meditates alone, For whom...
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Comments
Charles Cosimano
August 27, 2007 10:17 PM

Ok, so Elliot did not like hermits. That leaves out some really interesting folks in early Christendom.

godisaheretic
August 27, 2007 11:39 PM

"And no community not lived in praise of God"...

OK, so Eliot did not see that there were any communities which lived with the mutual understanding that "in praise of God" is just Myth...
I mean...
the idea that God should be "praised" is an invention of ancient imaginations...
sure, many communities have formed around such Myths...
but...
is he just being poetic?
since his third line is literally a mismatch with Reality...

faith hope love joy peace to all...

Nate Metzger
August 27, 2007 11:55 PM

Beautiful poem. We should declare Eliot the patron saint of crunchy conservatism.
"But all dash to and fro in motor cars/Familiar with the roads and settled nowhere." Dig it.

La Dolce Vita
August 28, 2007 12:36 AM

No. But he liked hermit crabs.

"I should have been a pair of ragged claws/scuttling across the floors of silent seas."

"The Wasteland" and "Prufrock" get all the undergrad glory. But Eliot's "Four Quartets" is what took him out with a bang instead of a whimper. Sublime stuff.

rebeccat
August 28, 2007 5:06 AM

godisaheritic, I don't actually want to get into a big old dispute with you, but I just really feel compelled to say that odds are TS Elliot probably never did see "any communities which lived with the mutual understanding that "in praise of God" is just Myth". The man was a crazed student of history and literature and would have been well aware of the fact that such a thing never has existed. Today you could argue that there are some such communities in various spots in large US cities on the coasts and in much of Europe, but at the time Eliot was writing, a person who admitted to being an atheist wasn't considered to be safe to leave your wife or your wallet near. Even if today you think that the "God myth" is something we should "move beyond", a simple look at history quickly reveals what an anomoly such a thought is. In ways very, very good and very, very bad, religion has been at the core of every civilization and culture ever known to man. It's well and fine to wish for change, but reality definately supports Elliot on this one, at least in the day and age in which he wrote.

Steven
August 28, 2007 10:04 AM

One line in this poem reminds me of a passage in "On Ideal Friendship", a letter from Anthsa to her son, St John Chrysostom. It can be found in the St. Pachomius Library at http://www.voskrese.info/spl/anthusa.html

Note the wide ranging anthology of essays on friendship that this translation is taken from. Until rather recently friendship was a significant topic and was seen as a vital componant of the good life.

Margaret
August 28, 2007 11:28 AM

And Elliot's "day and age" aren't so far removed from our own, rebeccat, at least in terms of world history. Godisaheritic, I used to think exactly like you do. I used to BE you. Then I had an actual, bonafide, old-fashioned conversion experience. (Yes, they still happen!) Not trusting my own heart (whatever THAT meant), I turned to C.S. Lewis and "Mere Christianity" for some back-up. I haven't stopped reading – or believing – since. And my life is utterly and completely changed in ways only other believers can attest to. I am a sophisticated, educated person with a masters degree in English and all sorts of worldly interests. But I now believe God is real. And once you believe in Him, the idea that He should be praised is not just a given, but a deep and abiding source of joy. It is certainly no myth.

John Stamps
August 28, 2007 11:59 AM

That T.S.Eliot is really a stupid guy.

Too bad when he was at Harvard, or England writing all his stupid poetry, that he never learned the idea that God was a myth. What do they teach at Harvard? What a waste land!

My recommendation to you, godisaheretic, is the very next time you see him, be sure to set him straight! Make sure you tell him his poetry sucks as well, being as mismatched with reality as it is.

John E.
August 28, 2007 1:30 PM

And yet for all the expressed nostalgia for small communties of days gone by, or still to be found in rural Germany and even the rural US, how many of you are willing to leave urban life, accept a lower standard of living, and settle down in a small town - a really small town, say 500 or less - and try to integrate with the folks who have lived there for generations?

Me? Yeah, I'm doing it. Moved from downtown Houston to an East TX town of 637 (probably fewer now). The advantages outweigh the disadvantages now that broadband internet has come to town, but let me tell you, it isn't all rural paradise. The average age is probably around 68, much of the younger crowd is living on Social Security disability payments, and any youngster with ambition leaves for the big city after graduating from High School.

ossicle
August 28, 2007 4:08 PM

I looked up "pillion" and got several meanings:

1a : a light saddle for women consisting chiefly of a cushion
1b: a pad or cushion put on behind a man's saddle chiefly for a woman to ride on
2 chiefly British: a motorcycle or bicycle saddle for a passenger.

That last line is confusing. Do the sons and daughters of each family ride off together on a motorcycle, or does the son from family A ride off with the daughter from family B? I guess probably the latter. Well, at least they have each other.

Motorcycle imagery - weird!

Steven
August 28, 2007 4:14 PM

I once had to spend a few years in a town of well under 200. As a New Yorker, I found this pretty stressful. Small towns MAY be "Our Town"--but they may also be "Spoon River". Or worse.

For those who like the idea of the "human-scale" town, there is a story by Frederic Brown called "The Waveries". In the story Earth is invaded by incorporeal creatures which "eat" electricity. We go back to horses, bicycles, and steam engines in small towns that have no movies or record stores, but a more participatory and therefore more humanly satisfying community theatre and town band. It is a good story, but I'm glad it's fiction.

By the way, in my previous comment the name should be Anthusa, not Anthsa.

godisaheretic
August 28, 2007 11:25 PM

rebeccat...
yes... you are most likely right about what he saw in his time...
your clarification is very helpful... thanks...

but though he didn't see it...
I think the evidence is solid that throughout history our ancestors invented Myths such as "in praise of God"...
the idea that God should be praised is clearly mythological...
an invention of ancient imaginations...

now to clarify...
I do have faith and hope in the Reality of God (whatever It is) who surely is far greater than what all Myths say...
in that faith and hope, I don't see any good reason to include "praise" for God...
like I said, I believe God is beyond that...

faith hope love joy peace to all...

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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