Crunchy Con

Team Jindal fights back

Wednesday August 22, 2007

Categories: Republicans
The Louisiana GOP has a magnificent fisking of the Louisiana Democrats' scurrilous attack on Bobby Jindal's religious beliefs and writings. Well done! Excerpt: First, to the lies. Based on an article called “How Catholicism is Different” – note the sensitivity...
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Comments
Daniel
August 22, 2007 1:15 PM

Is this the same Louisiana GOP committee that has David Duke- and KKK-supporter Keith Rush on its central committee? That has race-baited Democrats for decades? All the pearl-clutching and handwringing is a spectacle, like Claude Raines feigning shock that there is gambling going on in Casablanca.

Marc LeBrun
August 22, 2007 1:17 PM

The article does not refer to Protestant religions as “scandalous.” The exact phrase used mentions a “scandalous series of divisions and new denominations” in the history of Christianity. Perhaps the Louisiana Democratic Party attack artists don’t understand how adjectives work, but lack of grammar would be a better failing than the lack of honesty this mischaracterization represents.

Does this qualify as "Prissy Hair-Splitting?"

Mark in BR, LA
August 22, 2007 1:24 PM

Thanks for following this.

Not being able to read the entirety of the article, I was wondering whether it were Calvin whom Jindal was quoting with regard to human depravity. Once upon a time, the belief in "Total Depravity" was a hallmark of Reformed theological self-understanding - the "T" in TULIP.

I wonder if Arminian citizens are going to rise up in outrage against Calvinist candidates...

BTW, did you notice that there's also an Orthodox candidate for governor in Louisiana? John Georges of New Orleans, who's presently getting about 1% in most polls.

This is a really curious race. Of course, we're a curious state that gets curiouser and curiouser.

Matt K
August 22, 2007 2:37 PM

Its good to have some further insight on this. But I notice that thought the GOP can explain away the “scandalous,” “depraved,” “selfish,” accusations against Protestants, there is no mention of heretical.

We protestants are still heretical, right? I don't really care what Jindal thinks of my faith, but I do wonder if conservative evangelicals in general understand what so many RCC and OCA conservatives think of the evangelical christian faith.

Joshua Trevino
August 22, 2007 2:53 PM

We protestants are still heretical, right?


As you choose, of course.


No doubt you're so much more generous with the Catholics.

Rod Dreher
August 22, 2007 3:31 PM

From a Protestant point of view, Catholics and Orthodox are heretics. So what? I mean, it matters theologically, but politically?

Anne
August 22, 2007 4:39 PM

It's amusing to watch Protestants get all "prissy" about being called heretics, when many of them won't even grant the title of "Christian" to Catholics (and presumably the Orthodox).

Anne
August 22, 2007 4:42 PM

And I don't know how any Christian can look at the endless divisions among sects and denominations, and not call them scandalous. Especially, you know, given all that talk about us all being one, and stuff.

Matt K
August 22, 2007 4:46 PM

No doubt you're so much more generous with the Catholics.

I disagree with the RCC on some theological points, but I find that people throw around the word "Heretical" with derision and an intention to exclude. I view my own place in my own tradition humbly enough to not make so many exclusive claims. I can say the Apostle's creed in good conscience standing next to a Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox. Again, I disagree fervently on some points with other Christians-- but I'm hesitant to use the "Hertic" label.

it matters theologically, but politically?
You're right Rod, it shouldn't. That Louisana Dems would stoop to this is pretty lame. I only bring it up for the sake of discussion.

reddopto
August 22, 2007 5:39 PM

There is no doubt Jindal was quoted way out of context. In fact, this case could be used in the classrooms of America as a good example of taking comments out of context.

The article mentions Calvin and his concept of "utter depravity." R.C. Sproul, a prof of a Calvinist bent, has waxed long on "total depravity" as opposed to "utter depravity." According to R.C, there is a crucial difference between the two, although I don't see a great deal of difference between totally and utterly. But, his idea is that the totality of our personalities are depraved; every aspect. But, we are not utterly depraved, or we would never be able to respond to the Holy Spirit. Is that a crucial difference? I myself don't worry about Calvin. I read about his murder of Michael Servetus in Geneva, and it has colored my view of his theology.

R
August 22, 2007 6:38 PM

Yes, I too used to find it difficult to see the disctinction between "utter" and "total" but I read somewhere that it was all a translation issue--it's actually "udder", not "utter", and Calvin here was talking about the depravity of cows that don't give milk, and that's something I think we *all* can agree on, Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant.

Irenaeus
August 22, 2007 7:35 PM

I *think*, technically, that we Protestants are schismatics, not necessarily heretics...

fbc
August 22, 2007 7:44 PM

I can say the Apostle's creed in good conscience standing next to a Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox. Again,acc I disagree fervently on some points with other Christians-- but I'm hesitant to use the "Heretic" label.

As are we Catholics. When's the last time you heard a Catholic pronounce someone a heretic? I can't say but I've heard it more than once in twice in my adult life.

But that doesn't mean the word is without worth. A heretic is someone who dissents from the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church. Perfectly valid distinction, it would seem to me.

As a Catholic convert from an overwhelmingly Protestant area of the US, I suppose I'm surrounded by heretics. But I don't make it a point of leaping out with pointed finger to accuse them of being so. No doubt they think I'm one too. We agree to live and let live, and let our actions speak instead.

fbc
August 22, 2007 7:53 PM

I *think*, technically, that we Protestants are schismatics, not necessarily heretics...

Hmm. Could be so, I guess, if you held to Catholic dogma completely, but still yet remained somehow outside the Catholic Church. That's a fine distinction, but I think that's correct, technically speaking.

It is possible of course, to be both.

(Not that I'm pointing any fingers here, ya unnerstand. :^))

aaron
August 23, 2007 10:24 AM

Does this qualify as "Prissy Hair-Splitting?"

No of course not, no scared cows here.

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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