Bible Girl's Race & Religion Quiz

Really interesting post. I too appreciate the candor, and I appreciate more the opportunity to explore my actions that illuminate my attitude. Thanks to Rod, Renea, and BG.

What I notice is how much race means to minorities and how little it means to majorities. True, the majorities sometimes assume an inferiority among the minorities, but not, it seems to me, with the intensity minorities assume.

Recently I sat in a waiting room, watching a History Channel program that referenced past discrimination about blacks. I thought, I'm glad it's not that bad now, but I couldn't help wondering what the black guy in the room was thinking. I have to believe it's more disturbing to him. At least, I would expect that to be natural.

As a VN veteran, reminders of that war are more disturbing to me than they are to the non-vet. So I would expect constant reminders of non-majoritarian position could be disturbing to minorities, especially if there's been discrimination involved.

So from my perspective, Renea's sensitivity is more reasonable than any sensitivity a white person would have about participating in a black-led church.

What you say makes sense, David, but I don't think it's altogether wrong for Renea Overstreet to be asking herself these questions. In another context, if I had found a dream house in a safe, friendly, attractive neighborhood that was all-black, but I balked at that, instinctively preferring to live in a lesser neighborhood that was predominantly white, I would hope that I would check myself about my own motivations.

The Nigerian pastor sounds a bit like white Canadian author Michael O'Brien, who was expressed about overly positive images of dragons and snakes in modern-day children's literature.

Well, Dean, I agree in spirit with a lot of what you're saying, but sometimes in practice things get complicated.

The closest Catholic parish to me geographically isn't the parish I attend. It does contain a majority of people who aren't of the same ethnic background as I am, but I'm not being racist to choose another parish. How can I say that? Simple: Mass is now said in the vernacular, and the vernacular language of that parish is Spanish. While I appreciate the beauty of all of the Romance languages I've never been much of a linguist, so I choose to attend a parish at which the Masses are said in English.

Now, that said, our parish has a pretty large number of Hispanic parishioners, and not all of them attend the Spanish Mass. On certain occasions at Mass some of the prayers or readings will be said in Spanish in an effort to include both of the two main ethnic/cultural groups. An even greater level of inclusion would be possible if the Mass were said in Latin again (not necessarily the older Mass; I'm fine with the Novus Ordo in Latin). But until or unless that is done, there's going to be a certain amount of division based far less on culture or ethnicity and far more on language, which is a much greater barrier to me than attending a predominantly black parish would be.

Once i saw a negroe in Russian Orthodox Church, he prayed and looked as if he felt comfortable there. I would say when a foreigner starts to attend services it makes people proud, in good sense, that being ethnically different he choose their church, and they would observe him with interest casting glances, but not direct, not to make him embarrased.

Orthodox Church has another problem. I'm not sure what means Pentecostal, perhaps it is what is called 'Evangelicals of 50th day' here. It is regarded as a dangerous sect :( Every Christian church that is not Orthodox or Roman Catholic is regarded as dangerous sect leading people astray. Something like Jegovah Witnesses and all who got there are in big trouble. That is the attitude of church and common believers.

P.S. if i emigrated to USA and had children i don't know if i would even teach them russian, i would try to make them the same as all other americans. Emigrating in another country to build a little russia around onceself and to speak on public the language others don't understand is a bit unpolite to inhabitants of a country which kindly gave me citizenship, imho. I would rather completely burn all bridges back. But maybe i m too naive and would not be so strong to put it in practice.

1. Unfortunately, we have language segregation as Erin described -- my city is heavily Latino.

2. Again, the congregations/parishes may theoretically be mixed, but in point of fact offer English and Spanish Masses and thus self-segregate.

3. That seems to be the media's impression, but in fact I've personally met missionaries who struck me as being incredibly non-judgmental (while, clearly, still being missionaries).

4. I thought Rod's response was good.

5. One. (And her Catholicism being more deep than mine comes PRECISELY from the fact she has a different cultural background, where Catholicism is embedded with her ethnicity.)

6. No.

7. NO.

8. On a personal/theological level I feel most are (despite the fact that, as the wag goes, 11 a.m. on Sunday is the most segregated hour in America). But IMHO too many vote for a political party that most certainly is not.

9. In an individual congregation, absolutely. On a denominational basis ... ?!?!

10. Not mine personally, but on behalf of my family, yes.

I am Native American (Cherokee), Scotch-Irish, English, German and Hungarian. The blend means people say I look Italian (which in New Jersey, is generally a compliment ...).

The reason I chose my church to begin with was because it was the first time I worshipped with all different races. The services were extremely mixed, including different types of music, old time hymns and grooving songs with a band that we all clapped along to. Now that our services have become smaller we have fallen prey to matching our income based population (more white). However, I think we as a congregation have prayed and spoken up to how much we need more color and praise be to God we are becoming more mixed again.

The Big, Happy Family Quiz

1. How, in your opinion, are people of different ethnicities and cultures treated in your church? Very well. We encourage different ethnicities.

2. Among the few congregations in the area that are ethnically mixed, how many offer worship and preaching that are unabashedly ethnic in flavor? I wouldn't know. Church is typically the most segregated day of the week, our old preacher used to say.

3. Do you think most American evangelicals who undertake missions to developing countries assume they're offering a superior version of doctrine and morality?
I cannot speak for them, but for us, we go to serve those in need. They are much poorer than us and cannot afford buildings or paying for salaries for those in ministry and that is what missions is about.

4. How would you respond if a Nigerian pastor came to stay at your house, and he was deeply grieved that you allowed your child to play with toy snakes--when snakes, in his culture, symbolize an evil spirit characterized by extreme manipulation? (As you've probably guessed, this actually happened to me.)
I would instantly get rid of it.

5. How many close Christian friends do you have from different cultural backgrounds? Close Christian friend defined: You love them. You can be open about disagreements, instead of brushing them aside. You call them for counsel, and you take their advice with the utmost seriousness. You ask them to pray for you. You can entrust them with a confidence about yourself.-I have lived with women from different races before I got married and we still talk occasionally. I could work on being better friends to everyone, all my relationships got smaller when I married and instantly pregnant.

6. Can you name a preacher or Bible teacher of a different ethnicity from your own whose ministry you follow closely? We have visiting preachers from our African congregations several times a year, had one last week in fact.

7. Is abortion a more important moral issue than racial reconciliation?
I think the catholics have taken this on, while the evangelicals have left it in the dust. And our lack of involvement has been wrong. I heard a message from Dr. James Kennedy a while back that woke me up to this cause. I don't think its a racial issue. Personally at our church our preacher doesn't advocate any politics, so I think in some ways, the abortion issue has become a political issue, so we don't align ourselves with any rallies. But we should. Abortion has become like divorce, commonplace and accepted. I was shocked when I heard some statistics recently.

8. Do you think most white evangelicals are sincerely interested in racial reconciliation, though they might not know how to go about it? In my church, they make a good effort.

9. In your view, are most white evangelicals willing to submit to black church leadership? Now that is a great question. I haven't seen it yet. But I would like to. Currently we have a white preacher but we also have a black preacher that is our 2nd in command. Our elders are white. But I don't think we have any black men that qualify biblically (one marriage, grown children are christians, pillar of the community).

10. Have you ever seen a need to repent of your prejudice to Jesus Christ?
Yes, I have. I have had moments where I had racial thoughts, but I try to talk myself through it. And to be honest, I know black people have racial thoughts about white people too. At least here in the South.

And last, if you will, what is your racial/ethnic background? White. But there have been times I wish I was black. My mother used to think one day I might marry another race, because I seemed blind to it. I have had a special place because I remember my mother telling me how during the Jacksonville riots in the 60's my grandfather's business didn't get burned because the black men stood out front and protected it, because he was a fair man to all.

1. How, in your opinion, are people of different ethnicities and cultures treated in your church?

I think they're treated just as fairly as anybody else. My congregation is majority black (I abhor the term 'African American) with a smattering of latino and white. Among the white folks, it's evenly split between people married to black parishioners and those who come with their own white family members.

One white woman at our church, one of the deacons, said she felt discriminated against because of her color. Not to discount her experiences, but I think that some of her feelings can be attributed to her being an 'outsider' (didn't grow up in this small town) and is perhaps conflating some of that with racial prejudice. People like myself who came to the church from other geographical locations are generally not included in a lot of the extra-curricular socializing that goes such as picnics and things. I don't take it personally though, it's just that small-town mentality coming into play. The bulk of my church is made up of two large, extended families who have known each other for generations.

2. Among the few congregations in the area that are ethnically mixed, how many offer worship and preaching that are unabashedly ethnic in flavor?

Not sure, as I haven't really visited many other churches. When we fellowship with other churches it is mostly with other black Baptist churches, and two other Baptist that have mostly white congregations whose pastors are close with our pastor.

3. Do you think most American evangelicals who undertake missions to developing countries assume they're offering a superior version of doctrine and morality?

I think that's true of most missionaries, otherwise they wouldn't be in that line of work, no?

4. How would you respond if a Nigerian pastor came to stay at your house, and he was deeply grieved that you allowed your child to play with toy snakes--when snakes, in his culture, symbolize an evil spirit characterized by extreme manipulation? (As you've probably guessed, this actually happened to me.)

I would have the children put the toys away and then apologize to the pastor for being offended, but I would not apologize for my own belief that snake toys are pretty benign on the scale of things. Such things often happen when you spend time with people of other cultures. I've lived in other countries and such situations are pretty impossible to avoid and best handled with grace.

5. How many close Christian friends do you have from different cultural backgrounds? Close Christian friend defined: You love them. You can be open about disagreements, instead of brushing them aside. You call them for counsel, and you take their advice with the utmost seriousness. You ask them to pray for you. You can entrust them with a confidence about yourself.

No, but that's mostly because I tend to keep my cards very close to my chest, meaning, I don't make close friends too easily. I have a couple of very close friends from childhood (one white, one Indian) but both are what you call "secular humanists" which is what I used to be until a few years back when I converted to Christianity. I am not as quick to let people in as I was when I was younger. This is probably something I should work on.

6. Can you name a preacher or Bible teacher of a different ethnicity from your own whose ministry you follow closely?

I do like this one white pastor who comes to our church often to preach and sometimes we go to his (mostly white) church. Other than that I would have to expand the idea of "Bible teacher" to Christian writers who've greatly inspired me, everything from C.S. Lewis to Thomas Merton to some of the writings of the Desert Fathers.

7. Is abortion a more important moral issue than racial reconciliation?

They are both very important.

8. Do you think most white evangelicals are sincerely interested in racial reconciliation, though they might not know how to go about it?

I'm not sure. I do know that the "white guilt" thing often gets in the way with a lot of white people despite their good intentions. They are always bending over backwards to accomodate you in contrived, obvious ways that it's hard to feel like you're on equal footing. Always so careful to not offend that you end up feeling less like a human being and more like a cause or some weird psychological compensator, acutely conscious of your 'otherness.'

Likewise, the residual grudges and distrust a lot of black folks have towards whites also gets in the way. Racism has left a lot of scars on all sides, particularly with respect to black/white relations.

9. In your view, are most white evangelicals willing to submit to black church leadership?

I don't have much experience with this so I really can't say. In my own church, I would say that the few white people who are there readily submit to black leadership.

10. Have you ever seen a need to repent of your prejudice to Jesus Christ?

Oh yes. I can honestly say that I really had no animosity towards any racial group until my 20s, when I went out in the world and began to experience things. Now when prejudice arises in my heart I sincerely pray to have such feelings taken away from me. Lately I have been feeling resentful towards some Latinos. We have a lot of illegal aliens in my town and a lot of the young ones are in gangs and are openly hostile towards blacks. Some of them curse at my son, who is 11, for instance, when he happens to pass them on the sidewalk just minding his own business.

These feelings are new for me because I grew up in a black/Puerto Rican neighborhood and was used to having friends of that ethncity. I also have some animosity towards whites at times. Having these feelings are working to overcome them has been very humbling for me, and has given me more insight into the nature of prejudice.

I have sometimes longed for a more liturgy-based church experience but feel my options are limited for cultural and racial reasons. There is one Orthodox church in my town but it is mostly Russians who attend. The Episcipal church is too liberal for my taste, and since I have been divorced (first husband walked out on us when our son was two) I am disqualified from being Catholic, without going through the whole process. I think I would be uncomfortable attending an all-white church, to be quite frank. A truly diverse church would be great, but I haven't seen such a thing outside of NYC.

I am black American, with ancestry from West Africa mainly but also lots of Irish on both sides of my family (the earliest ancestors I can trace to colonial times were a female Irish indentured servant and a free black in Virginia) and also have Seminole Indian on my dad's side. That makes me a quintessential American mutt. :-)

Catholics, and I am one, should have the least difficulty with varying ethnicities. It's a thrill to see people of all ages, colors, and economic situations standing together in the Communion line. The problem amongst Catholics in the USA is language, not for the social hour but for the Mass itself. To some extent this is due to the priest shortage. More and more we have non-native priests who while they can offer valid Masses in incomprehensible English, are unable to preach in comprehensible English to English speaking natives of the USA. And often I wonder if their incomprehensible English with the Hispanic accent or the Chinese accent makes them any more comprehensible to the native Spanish or Mandarin or Cantonese speaker than to the native English speaker. One can deal with the Gospel reading because one already has a clue, but the homily is another story. So often in San Francisco I am forced to tune out and study the windows and the church decor during the homily like any medieval peasant, despite two college degrees.

And the pity of it is that if the Catholic Church in the USA were willing to invest in speech training, speech correction, accent improvement for its clergy, this problem of incomprehensible proclamation of the very Word of God could be taken care of. My Fair Lady is not a myth. But too many people in the hierarchy and, no doubt, some of the laity too think the accents are cute or charming or beguiling to the ethnic groups. Or just pander.

If the priests offered Mass only in Spanish or Mandarin or Cantonese or whatever the favored language of the community, that would be fine. The rest of us, non speakers of that language, could accept it and read our missals just as we did in the olden days with Latin. But now we have English liturgy and much more to the point, English homilies, which are too often so overladen with accents that no one really understands what the priest is saying. We don't get the instruction we need from the pulpit because we don't understand what the priest is saying because his foreign accent obscures his meaning. And sometimes one can see that the poor guy really worked on his homily and is really sweating to deliver it in this g-ded English but still it is incomprehensible.

1. How, in your opinion, are people of different ethnicities and cultures treated in your church?
my church is predominately white- I live in the north georgia mountains and there arent many people of other races at all. I really cant understand why, i think its just a comfort thing, maybe no one wants to jump in first.

2. Among the few congregations in the area that are ethnically mixed, how many offer worship and preaching that are unabashedly ethnic in flavor?
A friend of mine invited me to her church a few months ago. I went to a youth group meeting, which was four hours long. There was a humongous youth group (about 35) of just 14-17 year olds. That gives an idea of the size of the church. Out of the 150 or so people there at the time, I was the only white person. Everyone else was korean, and the pastor preached in korean. It was translated, of course. I felt preety uncomfortable, even though everyone was aboundingly nice.

3. Do you think most American evangelicals who undertake missions to developing countries assume they're offering a superior version of doctrine and morality?
Yes, unfortunately they act narrow mindedly in belief that they are better. Personally, I believe missinaries from neighboring countries of the same ethnicity who can speak the language are best. Its unfortunate, but the ones being preached to will listen best to a familiar culture.

4. How would you respond if a Nigerian pastor came to stay at your house, and he was deeply grieved that you allowed your child to play with toy snakes--when snakes, in his culture, symbolize an evil spirit characterized by extreme manipulation? (As you've probably guessed, this actually happened to me.)
I have no idea. All i know is i've always wanted a pet snake. But this makes me think again about snakes, I have no idea what i would do about that...... I think he might have been right in a certain light, but i mean, garden snakes are nothing to be afraid of. I am nothing but a fool, i dont know.

5. How many close Christian friends do you have from different cultural backgrounds? Close Christian friend defined: You love them. You can be open about disagreements, instead of brushing them aside. You call them for counsel, and you take their advice with the utmost seriousness. You ask them to pray for you. You can entrust them with a confidence about yourself.
None! I've tried and tried to find good christian friends, even white oneS! But apparently a north georgia high school with 96% whites doesnt create the environment for christian kids. Many say they are christians, but none of them are. It makes me so sad, I can get depressed just watching them all... well sin so much and have such disregard for any scrap of knowledge or wisdom.

6. Can you name a preacher or Bible teacher of a different ethnicity from your own whose ministry you follow closely?
No, they are all white.

7. Is abortion a more important moral issue than racial reconciliation?
I would say they are about equal, but much less has been said about the racial reconciliation.

8. Do you think most white evangelicals are sincerely interested in racial reconciliation, though they might not know how to go about it?
No, none of my friends who go to church even notice.

9. In your view, are most white evangelicals willing to submit to black church leadership?
yes, I think so

10. Have you ever seen a need to repent of your prejudice to Jesus Christ?
Yes! I seen to subconciously judge everyone, it is a huge problem of mine. But one day, that one glorious day when I die, It wont happen anymore. I live off of that.

And last, if you will, what is your racial/ethnic background
I am white non-denominational, in highschool, purely read the bible and do it. My area of the state is 96% white (north georgia) and purely christian with a few muslims and others.