Here are new poll results from Gallup on the Republican race. Good news for Ron Paul -- he's now running neck and neck with Mike Huckabee (with whom, let me say, I scored the same 53 percent agreement rating as...
I don't see how Guiliani's strategy of waiting until Super Tuesday to win a primary is going to work. AFAIK it has never been done. It seems an odd strategy from that point and an act of desperation. Huckabee and Ron Paul need a top 3 finish in Iowa or New Hampshire.
Wreckless predictions: Fred Thompson bows out after South Carolina. Despite present lead, Romney loses Iowa.
Dale Price
September 19, 2007 6:29 PM
After a brief bout of Fredmania, I'm falling away reasons you specified. Thompson's a nice, charismatic guy, but not a lot of there there. But that's no hurdle for the Vice-Presidency. Oddly enough. Rudy/Fred looks like a real possibility.
This poll shows such a cratering for Romney for no apparent reason (no gaffes, no controversies) that it has to be an abberration.
As to your question, there's no way Huckabee (much less Paul) can pull this out, barring a whole lotta scandals taking down multiple frontrunners. A shame, too--Huckabee has substance and executive experience.
John E.
September 19, 2007 6:32 PM
>>>Your scenario? How could Paul or Huck pull this thing out?
A tragic multi-campaign-vehicle puts all the other primary candidates into comas until after the Republican candidate is selected, after which they all awaken with no ill effects?
Dale Price
September 19, 2007 6:33 PM
Oh, and I got "Huckabee 70%" on the quiz, FWIW.
ScurvyOaks
September 19, 2007 7:14 PM
How about this: the ghost of John Randolph of Roanoke appears on stage at a Republican debate, booted and spurred with whip in hand, and demands that Ron Paul be nominated. He just might be able to scare everybody else into withdrawing from the race.
That's about the likeliest scenario I've been able to come up with . . .
Mark Adams
September 19, 2007 7:18 PM
I remain baffled at you continued dismissal of Thompson. I'm not supporter of him in particular (I would be happy with Huckabee, Romney or Thompson) but he is clearly a good campaigner and his numbers remain strong since the announcement though they have enjoyed a big boost either.
Phil
September 19, 2007 7:18 PM
For the love of God, anybody except Giuliani. A ham sandwich would be better. And that's it, I renounce my citizenship if he becomes president. This coming from someone who voted Republican all his life until 2004.
Mark Adams
September 19, 2007 7:27 PM
The Rasmussen numbers actually do show a pretty big Thompson bounce. Thompson leads Rudy in that poll 28% to 19%.
Actually they seem to differ quite a bit from Gallup's numbers.
I agree that the general punditocracy's mocking dismissal of Thompson was extremely premature. If the likes of the empty suit Mitt Romney and the inexperienced Barack Obama can be serious presidential contenders, then there's certainly room for Fred Thompson in the race.
To Rod's question, the only way Huckabee or Paul or any other serious contender has even the slightest chance is to do unexpectedly well in Iowa. For Huckabee in particular, that means Romney needs to implode. For both of them, it means their campaigns need to survive long enough to get to Iowa.
Marty
September 19, 2007 8:09 PM
If Rudy gets the nod, what would he and Hilary debate about? What is the difference between them? Well, I don't think Hilary has ever crossed dressed and she is still on her first marriage. But other than that.......I fell for that "hero of 9/11" stuff until I really started looking into it. Rudy is, like Hilary, another welfare-warfare state facist who wants to control people's lives and tell them what to do. He has some very unsavory associates as well (so does Hilary). At least, I think Hilary does in some dim way, understand the concept of "blowback". Rudy claimed in the first Republican debate not to have even heard of it. That means he hasn't read the 9/11 Commission Report. He was too busy making speeches at 200K a pop or whatever. Mr. 9/11 hasn't even read the 9/11 report.
Anybody but Rudy! I'd rather vote for a pro choice Democrat than a pro choice Republican and I've been a Republican all my life. I don't want them to think there's no consequence for abandoning principle under the idea that "where else would the pro lifers go?". How about stay home or write in Ron Paul?
I liked Ron Paul 4 years ago when no one had ever heard of him. When he first decided to run, my support was a sort of quixotic, get the message out and make a principled stand thing, but I didn't think he had a snowball's chance in hell. I still think him quite a long shot but Bill Clinton was polling pretty low among Democrat primary voters in 1991....no one had heard of Jimmy Carter in 1975....he has at least as good a chance as Huckabee and maybe even Romney. If young people actually voted at the rate of older people, his chances would be much better. I sort of look at him as the Goldwater of 2008. Goldwater didn't win but he ignited a movement that eventually led to Reagan being elected.
It's funny all these guys are always trying to be the new Ronald Reagan. Ron Paul was one of the first in Congress to support Reagan. And when it came to getting involved overseas, Reagan knew how to use proxies and he knew when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. I can't imagine Reagan being sucked into something as stupid as invading Iraq.
Well, it really doesn't matter much, the Democrats are going to clean the Republicans' clocks next year. Might as well get used to another round of Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton. It will at least be amusing to see Bill Clinton in the role of "First Gentleman".
Marian Neudel
September 19, 2007 8:49 PM
"If Rudy gets the nod, what would he and Hilary debate about? What is the difference between them? Well, I don't think Hilary has ever crossed dressed and she is still on her first marriage." Still being on one's first marriage is no small accomplishment, especially for a politician married to a politician. The fact that Giuliani has not only been divorced twice, but actually two-timed both his wife and his mistress makes Hillary's achievement even more remarkable by contrast. Only someone who really didn't value marriage at all could say the difference between them was trivial.
Mark
September 19, 2007 9:27 PM
Everyone compares Romney to Kerry because of his supposed "flip-flops." But you mark my words, what will really make him similar is he primaries strategy. Kerry, too, was polling low nationally, took Iowa and NH and bam. Watch Romney do the same thing.
fbc
September 19, 2007 10:40 PM
I can't imagine Reagan being sucked into something as stupid as invading Iraq.
Just so. Even in the throes of Alzheimer's, Reagan wouldn't have been stupid enough to invade Iraq. For that level of idiocy, there's only one man.
Pauli
September 20, 2007 12:08 AM
Well, I don't think Hilary has ever crossed dressed...
You haven't seen any pictures of Hillary from the sixties, I guess. That's de facto cross-dressing; no bra and legs need a mow. But she blended in back then, I'll admit. Plus I feel I should point out that remaining married to someone is no great feat when you don't have to share an address.
Christopher Mohr
September 20, 2007 5:54 AM
you remeber, of course, another figuer from history who stuck by his beliefs and what that got us, right? I'm talking about Hitler, of course. Sometimes, no...I'm going to say almost all of the time, sticking to your beliefs no matter what is not a good or admirable quality.
Irenaeus
September 20, 2007 8:33 AM
Just so. Even in the throes of Alzheimer's, Reagan wouldn't have been stupid enough to invade Iraq. For that level of idiocy, there's only one man. LOL! Gosh do I miss Ronaldus Magnus. A man history is vindicating as a great President and person of depth. (I'm serious, by the way.)
Today's date: Sep. 20, 2007. Primaries: February 2008 (or as early as January?) and later. General election: November 2008. It's fun to talk about all this, but so very much can happen between today and the primaries and then the general election. These campaigns are going to take all kinds of twists and turns, and it's much too early to rule anyone out. Everyone had McCain's goose as cooked several weeks ago, but he's hanging in. Bill Clinton, I believe, was considered down for the count at one point. So, #1, I'm not so sure all is lost for Huckabee or Paul, and I'm not so sure Giuliani is inevitable. There's a lot of us fundies in the grassroots.
#2: I'm not so sure that 2008 will be a disaster for Republicans -- again, we're a long way out. I think the 2006 disaster wasn't about Iraq so much; it was about Mark Foley's pederast nature and George Allen's "Macaca Moment," as well as general dissatisfaction with Republican fiscal governance. I'm open to being corrected here, but which Senate or House races can we reasonably demonstrate were won by Democrats because of the Iraq issue?
I'm thinking that the Republican candidate has a chance if he presents himself convincingly as a fiscal conservative and one who would appoint conservative judges, especially when the GOP starts rolling the attack ads out re: taxes and judges. I also think Democrats have a way of shooting themselves in the foot; I mean, y'all couldn't beat Bush *twice*? Whatever you think of the court issues in 2000, the whole court thing could have been avoided with a decisive victory by Gore. In 2004, after four years of Bush's gaffes and incompetence, John Kerry, an intelligent, military man, couldn't win either. What makes us so certain that Hillary or Obama would clean up on a GOP candidate, any of which will be more articulate, intelligent, charismatic and photogenic than the current POTUS?
Just sayin'. I could certainly be wrong. But I'm curious what others think. As far as my preferences, I'm for Huckabee at this point, and really hope I don't have to make a choice between Hillary and Rudy.
ScurvyOaks
September 20, 2007 10:24 AM
Re Kerry's intelligence, please note that his grades at Yale were even lower than W's.
Connie
September 20, 2007 4:01 PM
I remember some wag's line from the last time Kucinich was running: the only way he'd get the nomination was if all the candidates at the debate died because of being served tainted ham sandwiches; he would have survived because he's a vegetarian. (Of course, at that time Lieberman was still a Democrat and presumably wouldn't have partaken of the ham, either.) I'm not sure what the silver bullet like that is that could leave Paul as the last one standing this time.
BillG
September 22, 2007 8:46 AM
Looking at national polls makes no sense because we don't have a national election. We have a 50 state election system so you have to look at state by state polls. Most people don't make up their minds until the last two weeks before the primary and caucus in NH and Iowa.
I would like to see Huckabee and Richardson do 3 - 5 one on one debates in NH. They both have such great senses of humor it would be one "one liner" after another but serious.
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Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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I don't see how Guiliani's strategy of waiting until Super Tuesday to win a primary is going to work. AFAIK it has never been done. It seems an odd strategy from that point and an act of desperation. Huckabee and Ron Paul need a top 3 finish in Iowa or New Hampshire.
Wreckless predictions: Fred Thompson bows out after South Carolina. Despite present lead, Romney loses Iowa.
After a brief bout of Fredmania, I'm falling away reasons you specified. Thompson's a nice, charismatic guy, but not a lot of there there. But that's no hurdle for the Vice-Presidency. Oddly enough. Rudy/Fred looks like a real possibility.
This poll shows such a cratering for Romney for no apparent reason (no gaffes, no controversies) that it has to be an abberration.
As to your question, there's no way Huckabee (much less Paul) can pull this out, barring a whole lotta scandals taking down multiple frontrunners. A shame, too--Huckabee has substance and executive experience.
>>>Your scenario? How could Paul or Huck pull this thing out?
A tragic multi-campaign-vehicle puts all the other primary candidates into comas until after the Republican candidate is selected, after which they all awaken with no ill effects?
Oh, and I got "Huckabee 70%" on the quiz, FWIW.
How about this: the ghost of John Randolph of Roanoke appears on stage at a Republican debate, booted and spurred with whip in hand, and demands that Ron Paul be nominated. He just might be able to scare everybody else into withdrawing from the race.
That's about the likeliest scenario I've been able to come up with . . .
I remain baffled at you continued dismissal of Thompson. I'm not supporter of him in particular (I would be happy with Huckabee, Romney or Thompson) but he is clearly a good campaigner and his numbers remain strong since the announcement though they have enjoyed a big boost either.
For the love of God, anybody except Giuliani. A ham sandwich would be better. And that's it, I renounce my citizenship if he becomes president. This coming from someone who voted Republican all his life until 2004.
The Rasmussen numbers actually do show a pretty big Thompson bounce. Thompson leads Rudy in that poll 28% to 19%.
Actually they seem to differ quite a bit from Gallup's numbers.
Daily tracking:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2008__1/daily_presidential_tracking_polling_history
Weekly:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2008__1/weekly_presidential_tracking_polling_history
I agree that the general punditocracy's mocking dismissal of Thompson was extremely premature. If the likes of the empty suit Mitt Romney and the inexperienced Barack Obama can be serious presidential contenders, then there's certainly room for Fred Thompson in the race.
To Rod's question, the only way Huckabee or Paul or any other serious contender has even the slightest chance is to do unexpectedly well in Iowa. For Huckabee in particular, that means Romney needs to implode. For both of them, it means their campaigns need to survive long enough to get to Iowa.
If Rudy gets the nod, what would he and Hilary debate about? What is the difference between them? Well, I don't think Hilary has ever crossed dressed and she is still on her first marriage. But other than that.......I fell for that "hero of 9/11" stuff until I really started looking into it. Rudy is, like Hilary, another welfare-warfare state facist who wants to control people's lives and tell them what to do. He has some very unsavory associates as well (so does Hilary). At least, I think Hilary does in some dim way, understand the concept of "blowback". Rudy claimed in the first Republican debate not to have even heard of it. That means he hasn't read the 9/11 Commission Report. He was too busy making speeches at 200K a pop or whatever. Mr. 9/11 hasn't even read the 9/11 report.
Anybody but Rudy! I'd rather vote for a pro choice Democrat than a pro choice Republican and I've been a Republican all my life. I don't want them to think there's no consequence for abandoning principle under the idea that "where else would the pro lifers go?". How about stay home or write in Ron Paul?
I liked Ron Paul 4 years ago when no one had ever heard of him. When he first decided to run, my support was a sort of quixotic, get the message out and make a principled stand thing, but I didn't think he had a snowball's chance in hell. I still think him quite a long shot but Bill Clinton was polling pretty low among Democrat primary voters in 1991....no one had heard of Jimmy Carter in 1975....he has at least as good a chance as Huckabee and maybe even Romney. If young people actually voted at the rate of older people, his chances would be much better. I sort of look at him as the Goldwater of 2008. Goldwater didn't win but he ignited a movement that eventually led to Reagan being elected.
It's funny all these guys are always trying to be the new Ronald Reagan. Ron Paul was one of the first in Congress to support Reagan. And when it came to getting involved overseas, Reagan knew how to use proxies and he knew when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. I can't imagine Reagan being sucked into something as stupid as invading Iraq.
Well, it really doesn't matter much, the Democrats are going to clean the Republicans' clocks next year. Might as well get used to another round of Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton. It will at least be amusing to see Bill Clinton in the role of "First Gentleman".
"If Rudy gets the nod, what would he and Hilary debate about? What is the difference between them? Well, I don't think Hilary has ever crossed dressed and she is still on her first marriage." Still being on one's first marriage is no small accomplishment, especially for a politician married to a politician. The fact that Giuliani has not only been divorced twice, but actually two-timed both his wife and his mistress makes Hillary's achievement even more remarkable by contrast. Only someone who really didn't value marriage at all could say the difference between them was trivial.
Everyone compares Romney to Kerry because of his supposed "flip-flops." But you mark my words, what will really make him similar is he primaries strategy. Kerry, too, was polling low nationally, took Iowa and NH and bam. Watch Romney do the same thing.
I can't imagine Reagan being sucked into something as stupid as invading Iraq.
Just so. Even in the throes of Alzheimer's, Reagan wouldn't have been stupid enough to invade Iraq. For that level of idiocy, there's only one man.
Well, I don't think Hilary has ever crossed dressed...
You haven't seen any pictures of Hillary from the sixties, I guess. That's de facto cross-dressing; no bra and legs need a mow. But she blended in back then, I'll admit. Plus I feel I should point out that remaining married to someone is no great feat when you don't have to share an address.
you remeber, of course, another figuer from history who stuck by his beliefs and what that got us, right? I'm talking about Hitler, of course. Sometimes, no...I'm going to say almost all of the time, sticking to your beliefs no matter what is not a good or admirable quality.
Just so. Even in the throes of Alzheimer's, Reagan wouldn't have been stupid enough to invade Iraq. For that level of idiocy, there's only one man. LOL! Gosh do I miss Ronaldus Magnus. A man history is vindicating as a great President and person of depth. (I'm serious, by the way.)
Today's date: Sep. 20, 2007. Primaries: February 2008 (or as early as January?) and later. General election: November 2008. It's fun to talk about all this, but so very much can happen between today and the primaries and then the general election. These campaigns are going to take all kinds of twists and turns, and it's much too early to rule anyone out. Everyone had McCain's goose as cooked several weeks ago, but he's hanging in. Bill Clinton, I believe, was considered down for the count at one point. So, #1, I'm not so sure all is lost for Huckabee or Paul, and I'm not so sure Giuliani is inevitable. There's a lot of us fundies in the grassroots.
#2: I'm not so sure that 2008 will be a disaster for Republicans -- again, we're a long way out. I think the 2006 disaster wasn't about Iraq so much; it was about Mark Foley's pederast nature and George Allen's "Macaca Moment," as well as general dissatisfaction with Republican fiscal governance. I'm open to being corrected here, but which Senate or House races can we reasonably demonstrate were won by Democrats because of the Iraq issue?
I'm thinking that the Republican candidate has a chance if he presents himself convincingly as a fiscal conservative and one who would appoint conservative judges, especially when the GOP starts rolling the attack ads out re: taxes and judges. I also think Democrats have a way of shooting themselves in the foot; I mean, y'all couldn't beat Bush *twice*? Whatever you think of the court issues in 2000, the whole court thing could have been avoided with a decisive victory by Gore. In 2004, after four years of Bush's gaffes and incompetence, John Kerry, an intelligent, military man, couldn't win either. What makes us so certain that Hillary or Obama would clean up on a GOP candidate, any of which will be more articulate, intelligent, charismatic and photogenic than the current POTUS?
Just sayin'. I could certainly be wrong. But I'm curious what others think. As far as my preferences, I'm for Huckabee at this point, and really hope I don't have to make a choice between Hillary and Rudy.
Re Kerry's intelligence, please note that his grades at Yale were even lower than W's.
I remember some wag's line from the last time Kucinich was running: the only way he'd get the nomination was if all the candidates at the debate died because of being served tainted ham sandwiches; he would have survived because he's a vegetarian. (Of course, at that time Lieberman was still a Democrat and presumably wouldn't have partaken of the ham, either.) I'm not sure what the silver bullet like that is that could leave Paul as the last one standing this time.
Looking at national polls makes no sense because we don't have a national election. We have a 50 state election system so you have to look at state by state polls. Most people don't make up their minds until the last two weeks before the primary and caucus in NH and Iowa.
I would like to see Huckabee and Richardson do 3 - 5 one on one debates in NH. They both have such great senses of humor it would be one "one liner" after another but serious.
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