A more honest title: "Why I Should Be Hillary Clinton's Running Mate." He will be, too. Think about it. He's an Arkansan who's close to the Clintons. He's a military man, and a Southerner. She needs shoring up on the...
Clinton/Obama is already a done deal, unless Obama inexplicably rejects the VP slot.
Hillary already IS Wes Clark, politically, and obviously more politically viably Wes Clark than Wes Clark was.
rick
September 21, 2007 9:37 PM
Obama will never be Clintons running mate. America has come a long way but not so far that a ticket will be elected with out a white man. I wish it has but it hasn't and she knows it.
Clark would be a good running mate though. That would silence critics about her administration not being able to handle the war.
Brad
September 21, 2007 10:51 PM
"Obama will never be Clintons running mate. America has come a long way but not so far that a ticket will be elected with out a white man. I wish it has but it hasn't and she knows it.
Clark would be a good running mate though. That would silence critics about her administration not being able to handle the war."
But Obama is a "white man"; in fact, he's the first black Clinton, and so far without a known intern BJ jones; he, not Bill, is the real second Clinton on the ticket. A woman/black ticket is a dream they can't resist, and certainly not with each being as independently and powerfully politically attractive as each is.
TPSoCal
September 21, 2007 11:19 PM
Hillary would make a horrible President, Wes Clark would make a horrible VP (actually, I'm not sure any VP does anything to make them "bad) and the dems do make a horrible majority. Oh well, God told us times will get very dark towards the end of days.
Of course, I am not at all thrilled with any of the GOP candidates either. Boy, I wish there was someone, ANYONE, I could actually get excited about. Maybe in 2012.
TPSoCal
September 21, 2007 11:22 PM
BTW - does anyone know if Rod has declared his support for any particular candidate? I'm just curious.
TPSoCal
September 21, 2007 11:27 PM
Wow, Rod, you have Andrew Sullivan's blog listed as "Blogs Worth Reading" but not The Corner on NRO. You really have changed.
Rod Dreher
September 21, 2007 11:44 PM
Wow, Rod, you have Andrew Sullivan's blog listed as "Blogs Worth Reading" but not The Corner on NRO. You really have changed.
I wasn't allowed to list all the blogs I regularly read, or even most of them. And as far as declaring support for a particular candidate, I say good things about Ron Paul, and sometimes about Mike Huckabee, but mostly I'm put off by the candidates. If we had the primary tomorrow in Texas, I'd likely vote for Paul, mostly as a protest.
Bugg
September 22, 2007 12:54 AM
The whole Barack/Hillary feud is a creation to generate interest when the deal gets done. It gives the MSM a story to write that they want to write, a narrative they want to sell like soap, something new and fresh in the tired Hillary! campaign. And it's all nonsense.
Wes Clark, he of the Bosnian quagmire and the warm, comfy desk he rode in the Pentagon to the imagined glory of Dayton, has no shot at anything. Clark and Petraeus are, howeve,r two sides of the military leadship coin we unfortunately now have-powerpoint guys with degrees surrounded by enabling eggeheads babbling about paradigms Neither probably could take a hill at your local playground, but they know how to pick their political rabbis for career advancement purposes.Don't tell us the truth, son, tell us what we want to hear. US Grant and George Patton would never have advanced in today's military, and that's not a positive development. And it's why what ever shot we had in this war is long gone.
Larry Parker
September 22, 2007 1:27 AM
I think CC comboxers know Obama is my candidate.
But if you physically forced me to bet my (meager) life savings in nearby Atlantic City on the outcome, I'd have to bet Obama will be #2 on the ticket behind You-Know-Who as a unity slate.
pb
September 22, 2007 2:53 AM
A Southerner perhaps in origin, but not with respect to political beliefs.
Grumpy Old Man
September 22, 2007 9:54 AM
Jim Webb.
Southern white male. Somehow conservative and radical at the same time. A perfect triangulation move, which is Clintonism.
People perceive Hillary as a leftist radical. Webb might make them more comfortable.
Brad
September 22, 2007 10:15 AM
"Jim Webb.
Southern white male. Somehow conservative and radical at the same time. A perfect triangulation move, which is Clintonism.
People perceive Hillary as a leftist radical. Webb might make them more comfortable."
Yeah, I could easily see Jim Webb over Wes Clark, who is little more than a placeholding cipher, were somehow the first opportunity for a black Presidential ticket candidate to inexplicably implode or evaporate.
Charles Cosimano
September 22, 2007 11:44 AM
The notion that a vice-presidential candidate somehow makes the presidential candidate more palatable is an old idea that should be thrown out with the old bathwater. There has not been an election in the last 40 years where the running mate brought in a single vote that would not have already been there.
octopus
September 22, 2007 12:23 PM
wes clark is angling for Sec of Defense.
Maria
September 22, 2007 12:24 PM
The idea of Ted Strinkland, new Democratic Governor of Ohio, as Hillary's running mate feels me with fear. I think she could really win with him. He's a governor from a pivotal battleground state, seen as a moderate Democrat, a doctor and a minister, a nice non-exploxive candidate that helps Hillary where she needs it - white men in Midwest battleground states.
Personally, I think having a vp running mate with big military credentials is a loser for Hillary. It makes her look too weak to actually be the commander-in-chief.
Rawlins Gilliland
September 22, 2007 1:15 PM
I'm always amused when Hillary Clinton is dismissed (or even categorized as) a 'Southern’ anything, let alone ‘left radical'. In fact, Senator Clinton was not only born and raised in Illinois; later schooled in the northeast and is a second term senator from News York. Yes, she lived for decades in Arkansas where her husband was elected Governor twice.
Apparently the rule I was not aware of is:
You ever move to and live in a peripheral Southern state, no matter what you personal background or pedigree, you are Southern? (Try telling that to the old money in the true Old South where 'the war' still means Civil.)
This must be the jingoistic geo-political equivalent of the 'one drop' unspoken American 'rule' regarding race: You have one drop of 'black blood' and you're black. That's why we insist upon calling Tiger Woods (mother is Thai) 'black', so too Halle Berry (mother is white), Obama (white mother). Need I continue? So a Chicago doctor's daughter who graduates from Wellesley and then Yale Law School (head of then young Republicans) and is currently the two term jr. senator from New York is 'southern'. Interesting.
Daniel
September 22, 2007 8:44 PM
i So a Chicago doctor's daughter who graduates from Wellesley and then Yale Law School (head of then young Republicans) and is currently the two term jr. senator from New York is 'southern'.
As much as a Yale-educated, East Coast prep-school attending Texas governor who spent his youth in Maine and Connecticut, not Amarillo.
Rawlins Gilliland
September 22, 2007 9:55 PM
An obvious follow up but not altogether a parallel accurate one. Love him or hate him, our present day president DID grow up in Texas ....in fact with friends of mine in Midland, Texas....and is by any measure (gulp) a Texan. This is not my desire...but since Rod anointed me the Texas Geiger Counter Index as to who and what IS 'Texas', I must say unequivocally that GWB is in fact to his core (gulp) Texan. No less in his way that Lyndon Johnson. (Filed under:'painful truths')
Conversely, Hillary Clinton's first exposure to below the Mason Dixon line was decades after being born. There lies the difference. The only comparison otherwise of these two is that GWB comes from patrician background both in terms of his ancestry on both sides and the fact that his Dad was POTUS...yet he affects the demeanor of a yokel 'good old boy'. It's even less real that when La Hillary attempts the same game.
PS: Texas is not a Southern' state, but rather, one on 4 states composing the American Southwest. (Okla, Texas, New Mex., Arizona). The fact that Texas was peripherally Confederate in the Civil War is anecdotal rather than Geographical.) East Texas is where the South begins per its demeanor. But Tyler Texas is almost 400 miles from El Paso...or for that matter Amarillo. There's a whole lotta Texas in between. Including Midland where George W. not only spent a ton of his childhood, but where he met the local librarian and later married his wife Laura.
DC Native
September 23, 2007 1:22 AM
In the interest of accuracy: Hillary Clinton's late father was not a doctor. Various Google references list him as having owned a fabric store.
Rawlins Gilliland
September 23, 2007 6:45 PM
OOps. Can I save face by claiming that La Senator's new health plan proposal contains a proviso to bestow upon Mr. Rodham the honorary title of 'doctor' post mortem?
sigaliris
September 23, 2007 8:54 PM
PRESIDENT Hillary Rodham Clinton. Madam President. Heh heh heh heh . . . . That is all.
astorian
September 24, 2007 11:38 AM
Who cares?
I don't mean to be snarky, I'm merely making the point that the #2 spot on the ticket is of absolutely no importance.
I mean, if there was EVER a time when the VP candidate should have made a huge difference, it was 1988. Lloyd Bentsen was a highly respected, fairly conservative Southern Democrat, while Dan Quayle was a lightweight who commanded no respect and didn't hold any special appeal for any voting bloc. By any standard, Bentsen was an infinitely stronger VP candidate.
So, did Bentsen deliver Texas to the Democrats? Did he deliver a single Southern state? Did he even make Dukakis competitive in a single Southern state? Uh, no.
And that's not surprising. I mean, look at your own voting history. Have YOU ever switched your vote based on the VP candidate?
Hillary Clinton certainly can win. Her chances are very good. But there isn't a single potential Veep who'll significantly help or hurt her chances. Wesley Clark would be a perfectly solid choice, but he can't win Hillary a single state that she wouldn't win on her own. Neither could Obama. Neither can anybody else.
So, she might as well ignore "practical" considerations and just pick someone she thinks would make a good President in the event of her death.
Simon
September 24, 2007 1:32 PM
I think the Veep choice often does help a candidate significantly. Not by directly causing the ticket to carry certain states, but by helping shape public perception of the presidential nominee.
In the 1988 example, Bentsen might have helped Dukakis a great deal. The problem was that Dukakis was such a comically weak candidate that, frankly, nothing could have helped him.
Clinton's choice of Gore in 1992 was brilliant. It broke from the conventional wisdom that geographic balance mattered. By choosing a fellow Southern and perceived moderate Democrat as his running mate, Clinton underscored the "new Democrat" theme that was critical to his campaign.
G.W. Bush also made a shrewd political choice in 2000 by picking Cheney, who gave a grown-up appearance to the ticket and telegraphed to the public that, at least in foreign policy, Bush 43 would be much like Bush 41.
By contrast, Kerry's decision to pick John Edwards in 2004 was a complete waste. Edwards hadn't attracted any great national following and brought nothing at all to the ticket except one more U.S. Senator. Really dumb.
Brad
September 24, 2007 4:27 PM
"Neither could Obama."
Somehow I think the opportunity to run a second term, sitting Vice-Presidential black candidate as President might carry more weight in some circles than you realize.
The pants suits only do so much.
astorian
September 26, 2007 10:43 AM
Okay, Brad, I'll bite- name me a state that wouldn't normally go for Hillary that WOULD if she picked Obama.
For that matter, name me a single person whose presence on the ticket would deliver a state that wouldn't normally go to the Democrats.
In my opinion, there ISN'T anybody in either party who's popular enough to flip a state from the red to the blue column (or vice versa) all by himself.
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Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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Clinton/Obama is already a done deal, unless Obama inexplicably rejects the VP slot.
Hillary already IS Wes Clark, politically, and obviously more politically viably Wes Clark than Wes Clark was.
Obama will never be Clintons running mate. America has come a long way but not so far that a ticket will be elected with out a white man. I wish it has but it hasn't and she knows it.
Clark would be a good running mate though. That would silence critics about her administration not being able to handle the war.
"Obama will never be Clintons running mate. America has come a long way but not so far that a ticket will be elected with out a white man. I wish it has but it hasn't and she knows it.
Clark would be a good running mate though. That would silence critics about her administration not being able to handle the war."
But Obama is a "white man"; in fact, he's the first black Clinton, and so far without a known intern BJ jones; he, not Bill, is the real second Clinton on the ticket. A woman/black ticket is a dream they can't resist, and certainly not with each being as independently and powerfully politically attractive as each is.
Hillary would make a horrible President, Wes Clark would make a horrible VP (actually, I'm not sure any VP does anything to make them "bad) and the dems do make a horrible majority. Oh well, God told us times will get very dark towards the end of days.
Of course, I am not at all thrilled with any of the GOP candidates either. Boy, I wish there was someone, ANYONE, I could actually get excited about. Maybe in 2012.
BTW - does anyone know if Rod has declared his support for any particular candidate? I'm just curious.
Wow, Rod, you have Andrew Sullivan's blog listed as "Blogs Worth Reading" but not The Corner on NRO. You really have changed.
Wow, Rod, you have Andrew Sullivan's blog listed as "Blogs Worth Reading" but not The Corner on NRO. You really have changed.
I wasn't allowed to list all the blogs I regularly read, or even most of them. And as far as declaring support for a particular candidate, I say good things about Ron Paul, and sometimes about Mike Huckabee, but mostly I'm put off by the candidates. If we had the primary tomorrow in Texas, I'd likely vote for Paul, mostly as a protest.
The whole Barack/Hillary feud is a creation to generate interest when the deal gets done. It gives the MSM a story to write that they want to write, a narrative they want to sell like soap, something new and fresh in the tired Hillary! campaign. And it's all nonsense.
Wes Clark, he of the Bosnian quagmire and the warm, comfy desk he rode in the Pentagon to the imagined glory of Dayton, has no shot at anything. Clark and Petraeus are, howeve,r two sides of the military leadship coin we unfortunately now have-powerpoint guys with degrees surrounded by enabling eggeheads babbling about paradigms Neither probably could take a hill at your local playground, but they know how to pick their political rabbis for career advancement purposes.Don't tell us the truth, son, tell us what we want to hear. US Grant and George Patton would never have advanced in today's military, and that's not a positive development. And it's why what ever shot we had in this war is long gone.
I think CC comboxers know Obama is my candidate.
But if you physically forced me to bet my (meager) life savings in nearby Atlantic City on the outcome, I'd have to bet Obama will be #2 on the ticket behind You-Know-Who as a unity slate.
A Southerner perhaps in origin, but not with respect to political beliefs.
Jim Webb.
Southern white male. Somehow conservative and radical at the same time. A perfect triangulation move, which is Clintonism.
People perceive Hillary as a leftist radical. Webb might make them more comfortable.
"Jim Webb.
Southern white male. Somehow conservative and radical at the same time. A perfect triangulation move, which is Clintonism.
People perceive Hillary as a leftist radical. Webb might make them more comfortable."
Yeah, I could easily see Jim Webb over Wes Clark, who is little more than a placeholding cipher, were somehow the first opportunity for a black Presidential ticket candidate to inexplicably implode or evaporate.
The notion that a vice-presidential candidate somehow makes the presidential candidate more palatable is an old idea that should be thrown out with the old bathwater. There has not been an election in the last 40 years where the running mate brought in a single vote that would not have already been there.
wes clark is angling for Sec of Defense.
The idea of Ted Strinkland, new Democratic Governor of Ohio, as Hillary's running mate feels me with fear. I think she could really win with him. He's a governor from a pivotal battleground state, seen as a moderate Democrat, a doctor and a minister, a nice non-exploxive candidate that helps Hillary where she needs it - white men in Midwest battleground states.
Personally, I think having a vp running mate with big military credentials is a loser for Hillary. It makes her look too weak to actually be the commander-in-chief.
I'm always amused when Hillary Clinton is dismissed (or even categorized as) a 'Southern’ anything, let alone ‘left radical'. In fact, Senator Clinton was not only born and raised in Illinois; later schooled in the northeast and is a second term senator from News York. Yes, she lived for decades in Arkansas where her husband was elected Governor twice.
Apparently the rule I was not aware of is:
You ever move to and live in a peripheral Southern state, no matter what you personal background or pedigree, you are Southern? (Try telling that to the old money in the true Old South where 'the war' still means Civil.)
This must be the jingoistic geo-political equivalent of the 'one drop' unspoken American 'rule' regarding race: You have one drop of 'black blood' and you're black. That's why we insist upon calling Tiger Woods (mother is Thai) 'black', so too Halle Berry (mother is white), Obama (white mother). Need I continue? So a Chicago doctor's daughter who graduates from Wellesley and then Yale Law School (head of then young Republicans) and is currently the two term jr. senator from New York is 'southern'. Interesting.
i So a Chicago doctor's daughter who graduates from Wellesley and then Yale Law School (head of then young Republicans) and is currently the two term jr. senator from New York is 'southern'.
As much as a Yale-educated, East Coast prep-school attending Texas governor who spent his youth in Maine and Connecticut, not Amarillo.
An obvious follow up but not altogether a parallel accurate one. Love him or hate him, our present day president DID grow up in Texas ....in fact with friends of mine in Midland, Texas....and is by any measure (gulp) a Texan. This is not my desire...but since Rod anointed me the Texas Geiger Counter Index as to who and what IS 'Texas', I must say unequivocally that GWB is in fact to his core (gulp) Texan. No less in his way that Lyndon Johnson. (Filed under:'painful truths')
Conversely, Hillary Clinton's first exposure to below the Mason Dixon line was decades after being born. There lies the difference. The only comparison otherwise of these two is that GWB comes from patrician background both in terms of his ancestry on both sides and the fact that his Dad was POTUS...yet he affects the demeanor of a yokel 'good old boy'. It's even less real that when La Hillary attempts the same game.
PS: Texas is not a Southern' state, but rather, one on 4 states composing the American Southwest. (Okla, Texas, New Mex., Arizona). The fact that Texas was peripherally Confederate in the Civil War is anecdotal rather than Geographical.) East Texas is where the South begins per its demeanor. But Tyler Texas is almost 400 miles from El Paso...or for that matter Amarillo. There's a whole lotta Texas in between. Including Midland where George W. not only spent a ton of his childhood, but where he met the local librarian and later married his wife Laura.
In the interest of accuracy: Hillary Clinton's late father was not a doctor. Various Google references list him as having owned a fabric store.
OOps. Can I save face by claiming that La Senator's new health plan proposal contains a proviso to bestow upon Mr. Rodham the honorary title of 'doctor' post mortem?
PRESIDENT Hillary Rodham Clinton. Madam President. Heh heh heh heh . . . . That is all.
Who cares?
I don't mean to be snarky, I'm merely making the point that the #2 spot on the ticket is of absolutely no importance.
I mean, if there was EVER a time when the VP candidate should have made a huge difference, it was 1988. Lloyd Bentsen was a highly respected, fairly conservative Southern Democrat, while Dan Quayle was a lightweight who commanded no respect and didn't hold any special appeal for any voting bloc. By any standard, Bentsen was an infinitely stronger VP candidate.
So, did Bentsen deliver Texas to the Democrats? Did he deliver a single Southern state? Did he even make Dukakis competitive in a single Southern state? Uh, no.
And that's not surprising. I mean, look at your own voting history. Have YOU ever switched your vote based on the VP candidate?
Hillary Clinton certainly can win. Her chances are very good. But there isn't a single potential Veep who'll significantly help or hurt her chances. Wesley Clark would be a perfectly solid choice, but he can't win Hillary a single state that she wouldn't win on her own. Neither could Obama. Neither can anybody else.
So, she might as well ignore "practical" considerations and just pick someone she thinks would make a good President in the event of her death.
I think the Veep choice often does help a candidate significantly. Not by directly causing the ticket to carry certain states, but by helping shape public perception of the presidential nominee.
In the 1988 example, Bentsen might have helped Dukakis a great deal. The problem was that Dukakis was such a comically weak candidate that, frankly, nothing could have helped him.
Clinton's choice of Gore in 1992 was brilliant. It broke from the conventional wisdom that geographic balance mattered. By choosing a fellow Southern and perceived moderate Democrat as his running mate, Clinton underscored the "new Democrat" theme that was critical to his campaign.
G.W. Bush also made a shrewd political choice in 2000 by picking Cheney, who gave a grown-up appearance to the ticket and telegraphed to the public that, at least in foreign policy, Bush 43 would be much like Bush 41.
By contrast, Kerry's decision to pick John Edwards in 2004 was a complete waste. Edwards hadn't attracted any great national following and brought nothing at all to the ticket except one more U.S. Senator. Really dumb.
"Neither could Obama."
Somehow I think the opportunity to run a second term, sitting Vice-Presidential black candidate as President might carry more weight in some circles than you realize.
The pants suits only do so much.
Okay, Brad, I'll bite- name me a state that wouldn't normally go for Hillary that WOULD if she picked Obama.
For that matter, name me a single person whose presence on the ticket would deliver a state that wouldn't normally go to the Democrats.
In my opinion, there ISN'T anybody in either party who's popular enough to flip a state from the red to the blue column (or vice versa) all by himself.
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.