Is Europe finished?

Rod, are you familiar with Transactional Analysis and the book "Games People Play" that popularized some of TA's ideas? There is a pastime mentioned in that book called "Ain't It Awful?" You might want to look it up, along with the concepts of 'strokes'.

"I think many people betrayed their own ideals. The history of the left, for instance, is a history of confronting authority—be it religious or political authority—and always challenging religious symbols and figures."

Re. your observation about journalists:

Obviously you are the exception to the rule, but if you substitute "journalists" for left (keeping in mind most journalists are left of center politically), you have the answer to your question.

Journalists are professionally educated to be intensely cynical (interesting, since many, like me, came into the profession as idealists -- I picked the quote intentionally), to trust no one, to question everything, and to skewer sacred cows. So why would it surprise you that the news biz both attracts and molds people of this mindset?

(Nor does it surprise me in retrospect that I was not long for newspapers, even given their horrendous financial problems in the Internet era.)

As to the main question -- I know American Muslims on average are far more affluent than European Muslims; and that, obviously, American Muslims have an ocean separating them from their heartland than their peers on the Old Continent.

But have there been large-scale sociological studies identifying any other key factors why there is more radicalization in Europe than there is in the U.S.?

This, Bawer fears, is setting the scene for a literal fascist takeover... Do you mean the Heil Hitler kind or the Heil Allah kind?

"Bawer, like Fareed Zakaria, sees genuine integration and assimilation of Muslims as the solution, in other words, offering genuine citizenship with all its rights and responsiblities."

Alicia, this is a far different picture of the Bawer message than I've seen painted here previously.

"My mother said that it's horrible there. She's so fed up with it. She says that we're handing over our liberties one by one, and the more we yield to the [Muslim] immigrants, the more they demand."

Yet one more reason why we need to see a widespread movement for Constitutional liberties in the U.S. soon. We're already headed down a disastrous path, having a Congress and an Executive Branch that obliterated all but the third amendment within the last six years. I'm continually amazed at how few people take this threat to our country seriously. *They've* handed over their liberties? How about here, in the U.S., where most of our liberties are already gone? The average American doesn't feel it yet, but all the ground work has been laid. We'll feel it soon enough. In my mind, restoring a respect for the Constitution and the inalienable rights it defends is the key issue in the upcoming election.

We can head down a statist path, following behind Europe, or we can re-assert the things that made the U.S. unique and restore the Constitution. Those guys over at the American Freedom Agenda are doing a great and good thing, but it's just not enough.

If this concerns any other readers, I suggest they check out the Constitution-loving platform of presidential candidate Ron Paul.

There is another reason why muslims rarely resort to threats of violence in the US, though it is rarely stated. Americans have guns, lots of guns. It is really hard to threaten people selling T shirts that say "Mohammed is a pig!" when they are selling them in a building full of artillery frequented by people who regularly carry it.

"people say that U.S. Muslims are less of a problem than European Muslims, they should remember the main reason for that is that they are a much smaller proportion of the population here."

Absolutely true.
To see how the good old USA will look like when Muslims are 30% of population come and see beatiful Dearbornstan, MI.

For education and motivational speeches you may attend rally for Hezbollah with thousands of friendly moderate Muslims: http://newsbusters.org/node/6954.

If your kid attends local school, his diet is taken care of. He will eat healthy and nutrious halal food, pork be damned:
sixthcolumn.blogspot.com/2004/12/dearborn-michigan-americas-muslim.html.

And Dearbornstan is proving its commitment to freedoms, especially freedom to smoke. They make cigarettes widely available via smuggling with profits going to support good deeds of Hezbollah:
www.thenation.com/doc/20061009/ackerman.

Where else, but in Dearbornstan you can find a police officer in charge of Community Policing office who is a Shi'ite and open Hezbollah supporter, who displays a Hezbollah poster at his community policing office at the Dearborn Public Library:
www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/09/when_hezbos_run.html.

Come to Dearbornstan and see the Future.

You're very intelligent and the readers could benefit from a "back and forth" approach between you and other high-minded people thereby exalting the discourse in your blog.

Emily, if other "high-minded" people were going to chime in here, they would have done it long ago. One reason that there's not more "high-minded" discourse here is because the only consistent theme on this blog is Islam bashing, and few "high-minded" people have the time and energy to parse and rebut this stuff.

And Rod changes his mind so often on "big issues" that it's hard to tell exactly where he stands on an issue on any given day.

Correction:

This may actually post before the comment it's intended to correct, but this is the video I meant to link in my previous (or subsequent) post - it's about Malmo Sweden:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byQD8VPhvdM

Well one of the points that Bawer makes in his book is that the Muslim immigrants coming in are typically from rural locations in their home countries and thus are more conservative, less educated, and thus less tolerant than urban dwellers. It is then their children who having no real attachment to their host country, which rather than focusing on actual assimilation but more of a ghetto-ization, end up being radicalized...

>>>
Some people are awfully quick to throw in the towel, I think.
DU
Posted by: The Mechanical Eye | October 2, 2007 12:36 PM
>>>

Other people's towels, no less.

In short, Islam present a challenge to Europe, but it doesn't merit the end-of-days rhetoric of "dmimmitude" or "is Europe finished?"

Amen, brother. And he end-of days rhetoric has the potential to become self-fulfilling prophesy if we let it. Let's deal with the challenge in an honest, Christian manner. Announcing to the world that the only solution to Islam is to kill or ostracize all Muslims is not the answer.

"Yes, Europe is having problems integrating them (Muslims)"

Some people (Ibn Warag, Spencer, Ali) think it is not really possible to integrate practicing Muslims into Western society.
If that view is correct, and current situation in Turkey is not encouraging, then attempts on integrations are pretty useless.

"Outreach groups, neighborhood committees, and NGOs are being started to address the issues, and they are active. Academia is involved, policies are being attempted, some successful and some not. It is a problem, people know it is a problem, and people are working to solve it."

Wow, outreach groups and NGOs!
What successful policies are attempted?

When you are in the hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging. One would think that the first thing Europe should do is to reduce Muslim immigration till things will clarify.

Which countries in Europe drastically cut their intake of Muslims?
Examples, numbers and references please.

If you openly and publicly critize Islam, you are liable to be charged with exciting a racial hatred.
That is true for most West Europian countries.

The "freedom" to denigrate someone else's most deeply held beliefs does not rank high on my list. It's like the "freedom" to deny homosexuals equal treatment in housing and the workplace. Perhaps it's a freedom we could happily do without.

"The problem Bawer sketches out in Europe is very, very serious (we really do have nothing like it here)."

Stop comforting yourself with this delusion. The difference between Europe and America is only a difference of degrees. About 15 years ago Muslims there had penetrated as far as Muslims have penetrated America today. So at the most we're 15 years behind Europe's intractible problem with seditionist Muslims.

Today we're closing the gap -- 6 years after 9/11, the President is "celebrating" the close of Ramadan in the White House, the Pentagon is taking "Muslim sensitivity training" lessons from Islamic supremacist fascists at C.A.I.R., and all around Muslim communities are popping up in the strangest of places like Lackawanna NY, Red House Virginia, Puget Sound, Lodi and Fresno California, Mulga Creek, Deposit NY, etc.

They weren't here 10 years ago. They're here now -- and they have one goal in mind -- spread Islam as far and wide as possible -- establish as many footholds as possible -- forward Islam and subvert all else until Islam reigns uber alles.

They must be stopped.

The Swedish example might be of interest: Leaders of our almost perpetually ruling Social Democrat party realized early on - in the 1920's or earlier - that they had to get control over the Church of Sweden. And they have succeeded: The C-of-S is totally irrelevant today. A meeting place for old age pensioners.

And now the Party tries to get control over the Muslims too. The "Broderskap" (Brotherhood) movement of "Christian Social Democrats" has developed close ties to the leaders of the Grand Mosque in Stockholm.

Today practically all Swedish children, 18 months and older, are taken care of in a kindergarten. This may not be true of all Muslim kids yet, but it will, it will...

And then there will be no problems. We will all be thinking the same. No one will believe in those old religious fables about God anymore; we will all believe in Man and Man's fundamental goodness. Be Humanists.

Und der Teufel lacht dazu.

quickly established closely knit family businesses that are generally prosperous

Like the sort bin Laden Sr. established?

The Swedish example: Of all little children begun, one out of four is put to death: For 1,000 births, 341 abortions, in 2004. Since 1968, net reproduction rate has been below 1.0, i.e. population must decrease. But it won't: The Bureau of Statistics tells us that 9.1 million now will be 9.4 in 2015, 9.7 in 2020, and 10.0 in 2030. And you know why!

Swedes have said adieu to God, and now we have to pay. Did anyone of you see Ingmar Bergman's film "The Silence"?

I am not complaining, on the contrary. My faith in God is much stronger now than what it would have been in earlier periods. "Love" was what life was for, in the 1940's; "free" love, of course. Then around 1990 the verb "to love" came to mean just "copulate". Nowadays one never hears it. Our bishop here (C-of-S) wants to bless gentlemen living -- I wouldn't say loving -- together. Bless their children too...

And one cannot even talk openly about this! Not in bien-pensant society -- the media, above all.

Isn't it true that the porn wave in the U.S. was a gift from Sweden? In 1970, the US Supreme Court found that "I Am Curious Yellow" was a serious work of art, which must not be prohibited. Malcolm Muggeridge: "A young Swede explained to me that the film is socially significant in that the heroine, bicycling from one sexual encounter to another, is seated on a box labeled Social Conscience."

US abortion rights also began with Sweden. In 1962, Sherri Finkbine could not get an abortion in Arizona, because her life was not in danger. She got one in Sweden. (And yes: the foetus was found to have no legs and only one arm. A Thalidomide case.) Then came Roe vs. Wade.

But now the time to pay has come. Now Sweden as we have known it is dying. As the psalmist says: "Their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god" (16:4).

Indeed. In today's "Dagens Nyheter", on the coveted debate page, philosopher Tännsjö wants an end to old "biological essentialism". Should a child have a legal right to know its "real" father or mother? Of course not, says Tännsjö. Your father was a syringe, isn't that enough for you to know?

That poor sod Tännsjö. Once a communist, still an atheist. Always on the losing side. And he still has to pay for it.

What a BS, I am European and I'm proud to be one, we're never finished.
American should read th good books before they made statements about Europe. We European build bridges in between cultures, American just blow them away.
We broke down walls, American keep building them, no Siacial Security System or what so ever for the victims of Cathrina still none after so more years.

Keep up the good work, One earth One Planet One mankind no American,
are they Intelligent enough to be humble and keep their big mouth shut instead of doing something more meaningfull to the world, than to blame anybody else but themselves about Moslism?

So now I'm finished

Bruce Brewer: "The average German politician, French journalists, or Swedish professor simply can't imagine a life directed by religious belief. -- It must be something we can relate to -- poverty, oppression, colonialism. The neo-Marxist analyses come easily. "

A Swedish ex-Communist leader, mrs Schyman, said (in 2001) that she much preferred Mullah Omar to president Bush. She added that men are the same everywhere; oppressors here as well as there. Her IQ is high enough; but she is stupid... And uninformed.

But the problem remains: How is it possible that these neo- or old-commies and lefties almost without exception take the side of the oppressors, the killers, the religious fundamentalists, those who want a return to the 7th century? -- One could in principle understand their love for Stalin; a madness, but in line with their entire world-view. But this preference for the religious fanatics...!

May I suggest that was lies behind this is the attitude to Christ. Mullah Omar and Mrs Schyman having, in principle, the same attitude to Him and his followers...