Real estate, not religion, divides America

Not only that, people are segregating themselves *across the life cycle* as well. Around here, you see "empty nesters" trading up, taking out 30-year mortgages on condominiums that may cost 50% more than their house. The key? Those condos are in precisely the kind of upscale, arts-oriented, "non-kid-friendly" restaurant areas Postrel mentions. So even in the "family-friendly" metropolises of St. Louis or Dallas or Oklahoma City, you will probably still find "arts districts" with condo developments catering to the 50+ crowd, who want a more "bohemian" lifestyle.

500K

Wow LA is pretty cheap (compared to the SF Bay Area anyways.

Actually the analysis is pretty good as far as it goes but there is leakage on either side and in the expensive places, there can be extraordinary possibilies to make the extra money it takes to live there.

However, people in those places probably do work more.

So, more leisure opportunities but less time to take advantage of them.

Also, child rearing in these places is different too but then that's a whole other discussion.

Thank you for telling me what is "hot" and "hip" so that I can get as far away from it as I can. I'm more into real, as in real life, real people, and real peace.

This is a very interesting concept. I live in a suburb of Philadelphia; we are close enough to New York that a good number of people around here commute. We bought a split-level in this town about 15 years ago for 145,000. Now it is worth about 350,000. New homes near-by range from about 500,000 to 1 million now. I think we are caught in-between; it is a family-oriented town that is becoming more upscale. I think that our family values and relative wealth exist in tension. Interestingly, when I was a young child, after my family fled the city with its vices, the demographic makeup here consisted of other groups transplanted from the city. Now people from all over the country seem to gravitate here. No judgments, just observations.

Just 500K for a whole house? That is not so bad.

In the center of Moscow for 540 000$ you can buy a flat consisting of one room (18 square metres)+kitchen (6 sq. metres).

Just see what you can buy on that money in different countries (300-550K):
http://ziza.ru/2007/08/27/chto_mozhno_kupit_za_kvartiru_v_moskve_31_foto__teks.html

1.Moscow
2.London
3.France (Cannes)
4.Brussels
5.Spain
6. USA, state Washington
7.Greece
8.USA, Miami (view on Atlantic ocean)
9.Austria
10.Italy
11. Berlin
etc. (Carribean Islands, Vietnam, Australia, Brasil,Finland, India)

Goodness...4 bedrooms, two bathrooms...

What is it about Postrel that intrests you, Rod? One of the last things I read by her she was bashing Pat Buchanan for something or other. Now it seems she's writing about style and glamour. In short, she, like too many Americans, is obsessed with the superficial and ephemeral.

Why is she relevant to Cruncy Cons?

I live in L.A. I've also lived on the East coast. The reason why housing is so expensive here is I can put on a pair of flip flops and shorts in February on most days. In VA where I used to live, in July it's so hot and humid you want to die while in L.A., it's maybe 85 with no humidity. Also, the job-market is very vibrant and pays better than most of the U.S. Whereas in much of America if you lose your job you're totally hosed.

Of course, L.A. has HUGE problems. Housing is expensive, traffic awful, illegal immigration puts a huge strain on the area, public schools in many areas are horrible [but blame the administrators and teachers unions, they have tons of cash]. Then there's the looming threat of an 8.0 earthquake that will make Katrina seem like a small Red-Cross cleanup operation.

However, the author presents a VERY West L.A./entertainment industry perspective with which I agree: vain, materialistic, workaholic secularists in love with themselves. However, in the remaining 90% of the L.A. area normal people live. Where people have kids, go to Church/Synagogue, attend PTA meetings, come home for a 6pm dinner, and GASP, even vote Republican! Yes, for middle and even middle class folks it's tough due to the housing costs. But it's a choice people like me make. I could move to another city and buy a nice house for $250K, but when I lose my job, can I find a new one in a few weeks? Can I take my kids to the park in January or August? I live in an area where for the most part people of different races and religions co-mingle quite nicely. Can you say that about Dallas? I used to live in VA and the 'N' word was used by well-educated people all the time. Yes, I'm sure it happens out here, but I've never experienced it. These are things I'm willing to pay for and so do millions more.

In the end, housing is expensive here because you have an area with great weather and good jobs where a lot of people want to live. It's called supply and demand. Dallas, while surely a lovely place, does not have year-round good weather and a gigantic job market else millions more people would be living there, not L.A. I don't buy the class-warfare nonsense Virginia espouses. Every city has rich area's and poor areas, often dictated by the lifestyle choices their inhabitants decided to make, and often by the sheer luck of the draw life gives you. Yes, I do live in an area with expensive housing and not a lot of poor people, but my church donates huge sums of money to the poor. Each year L.A. area Catholics donate $15 or so million to poor parishes in L.A. where people get food, education and spiritual nourishment for free, I bet the author didn't talk about that. Or the countless other denominations who do very much the same.

L.A. is no paradise, and having traveled much in the U.S. there are better places to live but the stereotype people place on this area applies to such a small percentage of the population and geographic area it just doesn't fit. I'm sure angry liberals in Santa Monica feel as the author does, but most of us don't.

John M.: Hello from Bloomington! I sometimes wonder if anybody else in Indiana read _Crunchy Cons_ besides myself, the friend who gave it to me, and the three or four friends to whom I gave it.

And to relate this to the topic at hand--the town where I live, being home to a Big Ten university, is unfortunately small-town living with rather big-city prices. It's kind of the worst of both worlds in terms of the economy, alas, having evidently the most expensive real estate in Indiana. The house that would cost ~$100-120k in Indianapolis will probably run you about $180-250k down here, depending on how close to the university you're looking. The job market sucks, being largely service-oriented. Besides the university, there's also a pharmaceutical manufacturer, and they're really the two best employers in town, but in both cases, it's next to impossible to get on unless somebody dies or they need *you* specifically, and you're not going to make a ton of money working for either of them (assuming we're not talking about higher administration roles or faculty positions where the university's concerned, or executive positions in the latter case), the main reason being because if you don't like it, there will be a hundred people in line behind you who won't care.

In many respects, it's a very nice and "crunchy" place to live; it's very pretty, nice farmer's market, we're able to walk most places (except church--real estate prices, even ten years ago, dictated that the burgeoning Orthodox community buy land at the far south end of town; we've got 24 acres and we're finally starting to make use of it, but good luck finding it the first time!), it's relatively easy to buy locally, and the people are very nice. On the other hand, a good chunk of why property is so expensive here is because of rich East Coast kids getting sent to college with Mommy and Daddy's platinum card. Our first apartment here was $850/month; then they bumped it to $900; then they wanted to bump it to $1000, and we said no. As soon as they knew we weren't renewing, they started asking $2,000 a month for the place; they got it, and quickly. Like I said, worst of both worlds.

Richard

I live in L.A. I've also lived on the East coast. The reason why housing is so expensive here is I can put on a pair of flip flops and shorts in February on most days. In VA where I used to live, in July it's so hot and humid you want to die while in L.A., it's maybe 85 with no humidity. Also, the job-market is very vibrant and pays better than most of the U.S. Whereas in much of America if you lose your job you're totally hosed.

But here in VA we also have exorbitant real estate prices. Not at the LA or SF level, but compared to just about anywhere in the Midwest or South, they are extremely high. It's almost mindboggling to someone from my part of the country that Rod could buy a single family home for only 165K!

I suppose weather can be a factor in housing costs, but anecdotally I don't think I've ever heard of anyone moving to or from Virginia who cited the climate as a factor in their move.

Steve Sailer's had some good stuff on this; namely, that family-friendliness and home-affordability have a lot to do with kids and who has them and when, and that this basic lifestyle difference has a lot to do with the differences of red and blue states where ages of marriage, family size, and the rate of child birth are radically different.

The housing runup in LA was not due to "supply and demand," but due to toxic loan products that allowed 7 dollar per hour illegals to purchase homes for $750,000! Thus, the huge numbers of foreclosures.

What a relief! I was worried that maybe law-abiding Anglos has something to do with the housing bubble. What's on TV?

Honestly in most big cities and suburbs, how much you can afford a month for rent or mortgage, determines your exact zip code.

The only place this is not so in force is in small rural towns where there is much more discourse between classes.

This is one reason I will never live in a place that has over 50,000 in population again.

I think that the blue state stereotypes are pretty accurate for LA, despite the post above. I listen to a daily din from hysterical Bush haters, made ironic by the fact that I don't much care for him myself.