My Apple problem

I'm having a vinnie Barbarino moment and scratching my head. I read the link and don't understand why the faulty component simply cannot be replaced.

As an Apple afficionado (not as much as Susan, probably) I'd be mighty PO'd at this annoypid (see a recent "Get Fuzzy" comic strip) business from Apple. Givumhell!

Those of us lucky enough to have one will probably all be running Linux on salvaged PCs in 10 years, after TSHTF...

I am not familiar with the laws of your jurisdiction (Texas). But it is universally true, under the Uniform Commercial Code, that every product comes with an implied warranty that it is fit for its intended use (unless the product is specifically sold AS IS, not the case here). I can cite you the exact code section if you want it. In California there are additional consumer protections. This may be the case in Texas as well.

I would argue to Apple that this product is not fit for its intended use, and apparently cannot be made so. (I'm a little confused about the facts. If the power supply itself is defective, why can't it just be replaced, end of story? Why would we have to replace the entire machine? And if it can be replaced, should that not have happened already? Apparently it has. So....why does that not fix the problem? What else is wrong? Are ALL power supplies available defective, or is there also some other problem?) If the product can be made fit for use, they have an obligation to do that. If it cannot, they have an obligation to take it back and give you your money back or replace it with one that IS fit for use.

A word of advice from the Fix My Computer Wars. The individuals you are talking to at the Apple store are not "Apple." "Apple" did not neglect inform you of the defect. You were not dealing with "Apple," you were dealing with some minimally-trained kid. (I live next door to the guy who used to be in charge of recruiting and training all Apple store personnel, and I know what I'm talking about.) (If Jeff were not in Paris right now I'd go over and ask him how to handle all this.) Actually these store people don't sound like they are any too very bright. If I were you I'd do maybe 20 minutes of research online, and then go in and DEMAND to talk to someone who knows what he's talking about, which may be someone at some other location. I know that the glitzy pretty Apple store in our neighborhood is just that; any real work takes place elsewhere.

Bottom line, if it can be fixed it should be fixed, pronto. Permanently, I mean. If it cannot be fixed you are entitled to a new one which is NOT defective. Threaten them a little and see if that shakes them up. Remember, the people you're talking to in the store don't know the Uniform Commercial Code from a hole in the wall, so talk slowly. See if you can manage to be kicked up the structure to someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

You really can take them to small claims court, and you would certainly win, but I assume you have better things to do with your time.

At the risk of starting a Macintosh vs. Wintel war, which is not my intent--whatever floats your boat--this is the kind of thing that drove me out of the Apple camp some years ago. My solution was not to fight with Apple but to buy cheaper Wintel machines. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to repair, and no more or less likely to have problems.

Just got off the phone with my local Apple store. My brief experience seems to confirm Susan's advice about the inability of the Apple clerks to know how to deal with this sort of thing. The polite young worker bee heard my complaint, then said, "I'm going to transfer you to a technician at once." Before I could utter a syllable, I was on hold. Five minutes later, he comes back on and apologizes, saying "all our technicians are out on the floor helping customers."

"That's okay," I said, "because this has gone beyond a technical issue. I am entitled to have a computer that works as it was intended. After having to go through the same repair twice in two years, and now looking at the same repair for the second time in four days, on an issue Apple recognizes is a problem with this model, I no longer have confidence that the computer will work as it's intended. It's wrong to expect me to have to come back to the Apple store for the same fix every time it fails, and anyway, after the summer of 2008, I'm up the creek. I think you should replace my computer."

Silence. I thought "geek in headlights." Then, very earnestly and even sweetly: "Would you like to speak to our manager?"

I told him yes, I would, but this is better handled in person, and that I'd be in later today.

"Geek in headlights." I really like this one. You're a professional writer for a reason, to wit, you really can write.

If the local manager doesn't come through, go higher. Demand to talk to whoever is in charge for your region. You need someone who has the authority to give you a new machine. But your local manager will probably be able to respond.

Everyone here knows what an Apple fan I am, but no human organization is perfect. In all my computing years, which is now a lot of years, I've never had a problem with them.

When you get high enough in the structure to find someone who will understand this, you might mention, too, what it is you do for a living, and delicately threaten to tell this whole story in the Dallas paper. :)

I've used Mac products for years and have yet to have any problems at all. My iMac G4 that's six years old is still running like a champ. That said, you might want to bypass the local store and see if you can get any satisfaction by calling Apple directly. Explain that this would be the 3rd time you've taken it in for the same repair and how important this computer is to your career and household. They might just declare it a lemon and replace it with a new or refurbished (but newer) model.

I've seen this kind of thing happen in the past with other people who did have multiple occurences of a problem. Just be courteous but explain very plainly what your expectations are and then see what they do.

Thanks for all this advice. It's really helpful. The thing is, Apple has a big fan in me. My dad is ready to get a new computer, and last week Matthew and I tried to talk him into switching to an Apple. I'm quite fond of Apple products, and have never had anything but courteous treatment from Apple. Which is why I feel especially burned by the Apple store's failure to disclose to me that the problem with my computer isn't isolated, but has been identified by Apple as a flaw in those models -- a flaw that entitles me to free repairs.

Again, though, the fact that the power supply has been replaced twice, and apparently will have to be replaced again, suggests to me that the problem is deeper than the design flaw Apple admits to. I really do wonder if other iMac G5 users who bought machines from the same lot as mine have found that the Apple repair has worked permanently? I would have said yes until this week. If that repair doesn't work, then Apple might be on the hook for replacing a whole lot of iMacs. Which might be why the Apple technicians weren't eager to disclose the true and widespread nature of the problem.

If you use an iMac G5 with a 20-inch screen, you should definitely check out the serial number on your computer. If it matches the one Apple cites in its repair advisory, by all means take it into the shop now and get it repaired, before your three year window is up. See: http://www.apple.com/ie/support/imac/powersupply/repairextension/

If you use an iMac G5 with a 20-inch screen

Ah, I have the 17-inch screen. Guess I'm safe.

I bought my first Mac in 15 years back in fall 2004. An iBook G4. I love Mac OS X, being a Unix-head Geek and all. The machine is a svelte 5 pounds. It used to have awesome battery life (needs a new one now). However, I'm most UNimpressed with the hardware reliability. At about 27 months, the machine's motherboard and display circuitry both died. Paid $300 to fix that (cheaper than a replacement, and cash was tight). Not 30 days later the optical drive died. They actually replaced that under the $300 repair's warranty, since they should've caught it. The display started acting up again (dimming/flickering backlight, which was replaced) about 6 months ago. I put up with it because I don't have cash for a new one now.

On top of this, iBook power adapters are known to die with astonishing frequency. Mine still works, but I know three people off the top of my head who have had theirs die. POWER ADAPTERS! Criminy, they should just work forever, barring power spikes or car tire encounters.

All told, I'm only giving 50/50 odds on replacing my iBook with a Mac Book when the time really comes. It seems to me that Apple's sleek exterior design is coming at the cost of components -- whether the quality of components they use in the first place or the 'compromise' pieces they use to make it all fit in that sexy package.

In retrospect, they have a long history of this. The ancient toaster Macs had all kinds of display problems exacerbated by the constraints of the box.

In addition to talking directly to Apple, once they give you a resolution (replacing it or whatever), you need to tell them about the less than knowledgeable people at that store. Not to run them down, but to get Apple to either inform the local stores better or find out if the problem is laziness at your particular location. That doesn't reflect well on them.

This is a pretty good idea. Unlike some outfits, Apple is serious about those stores and about hiring and training. (Next Door Jeff assures me of all this.) They need to hear about what's going on in your local store.

He said "we'll take care of you."

Did you threaten to continue to say bad things about him in your blog if he didn't? ;)

Did you threaten to continue to say bad things about him in your blog if he didn't? ;)

I know you're kidding, but no, I didn't. Someone suggested to me that I should make it clear that I write a newspaper column. That would be very unethical. I think I did mention in an earlier conversation with one of the Apple people that I'm a big Apple fan, and that I talk Apple up on my blog -- but then I instantly regretted it, because I would not want to give the impression that I'm threatening any retailer. That sort of thing diminishes one's integrity.

I don't think it's unethical to complain (at a cocktail party, in a blog, in a column) about a vendor. But to use one's position as a journalist to try to get something you wouldn't get as an average consumer?

I also don't think it would help the situation to make threats (implied or otherwise).

That said, I'm wondering how many people, who are not journalists or writers of popular blogs, have made the threat expecting it to provoke a quick response on vendor's part. Ha.

I've always been amused by the allegiance that apple fans have for the company even though I've never known them to be all that customer-friendly. Great marketing. Steve Jobs may be the meanest boss in america but he certainly fosters brand loyalty. Hats off, really.

My biggest brush with this was when I had a department full of Macs and Mac lovers in the pre OS X days. The software was buggy, and the machines were unreliable. We were always down but my employees always defended Apple and found someone else to blame for the problems. When IT got fed up and forced us to convert to WinTel, we had far fewer problems but more complaints. Don't flame me, I know that OS X is much better and I was actually involved (at the margins) in NEXT step development.

Personally, as a self-described cheapskate I've only had home computers that I could put together myself from cheap components going back to the old flea-market days (I did have a C64 however). Now my son is building them and he's even getting paid to put one together for my neighbor (dual-boot linux like all our machines).

Susan, I'd also guess that among the reasons it's unethical for a journalist to emphasize that he/she will excoriate a company for bad customer service in front of a large audience of readers is that the flip side of that is the implication that the journalist might give extravagant praise for good service (especially if that "good service" is beyond what anyone else would get from the company). No matter how you slice it, such a thing would give the impression that the journalist's opinion is for sale.

There's all the difference in the world between that and an honest reporting of a computer problem and updates on how the issue was handled--as you say, whether this is done at a cocktail party or on a blog doesn't make that much of a difference.

"Granted, there are days that I hate all computers (I'm a computer programmer), but let's say I hate my Mac a little less."

Bruce, I think you've just identified in a single sentence the phenomenon of brand loyalty in the twenty-first century.

Our grandparents could be loyal to brands because the darned things worked, and lasted twenty plus years. (We had to remove a late sixties refrigerator from our first house when we sold it--in the late 90s--because the new owners didn't want it. It was still going strong. Nothing I've had since has worked as well as that thing.) Our parents were either loyal to the brands their parents liked, or to "new" ones that they identified with or thought superior to their parents' choices. Us? We become fiercely loyal to stuff that is marginally, if at all, better than the other stuff available because there's no longer any expectation that products will work well or last long, so all we care about is that there's an infinitesimal, preferably quantifiable way in which the product fails to be as consistently disappointing as the competition's products.

So at the end of the day, if we buy a Toyota it's because we'll hate it a little less than a Ford, if we buy an iMac it's because we'll hate it a little less than a Windows machine, if we....fill in your own preferred brands, and keep going.

Sigh. Where's a unique Belgian monastery brew when you really need one?

Erin: Our grandparents could be loyal to brands because the darned things worked, and lasted twenty plus years.

The beer-and-soft-drinks fridge at my mom and dad's house is a General Electric. The nameplate on the front says "GE/Christmas 1943." It's been running like a top since then. No joke.

Rod, wow. I thought our "Harvest Gold" (no really) beauty was pretty amazing, but that tops it.

Why could we build better-quality products forty to sixty years ago than we can now? Is this one of the hidden costs of globalism or is it just the insatiable demands of stockholders for higher and higher profits that reduces the quality of goods?

I thought Apple was a perfect company with superior products and an undying love affair with each and every customer. Shows how much I know. Pauli

In any case, it sounds like Apple has come a long way since "the 90-day warranty on your Mac has expired" debacle with Mac SE power supplies that overheated and died in about four months.