[Rod] Sing "Viva il Papa!"

WHAT are they talking about??? I need specifics.

Do we all agree There is more than one way to praise God? "Traditional" music being whose tradition- Medeival European or the 1940's American songbook. The Church is much bigger than that. And so is Scripture. See Psalm 40. "I will sing, Sing a new song." (Emphasis on NEW)

I've been to mass in Port-Au-Prince Haiti where alter servers danced quietly down the aisle to 'traditional' Haitian drum beats and the church was OVERFLOWING into the streets. They needed loud speakers every Sunday. And the Mass filled with exuberance and celebration! Not Medieval European granted - but authentic and amazing none-the-less.

I think JPII had it right. Reach out. LOOK at World Youth Day! With church attendance sinking like a stone in many dioceses, young families are flocking to contemporary christian (what we used to call Folk) masses up here in New Hampshire. People will choose the music they feel best speaks to them.

Yes, God IS in the quiet and in the Gregorian chants. There is real peace in the daily mass of the Benedictine monks at St. Anselm Abbey in NH. But to say He is not also in joyful, prayerful and yes even (gasp!)'NEW' musical celebrations is IMHO parochial and misguided. God is big enough to be in Both types of music.

As a child in the 1970's,I remember the folk mass being relegated to the school cafeteria. While the 'real' music was played in the Church proper. Still we all worshipped God.

I think it's time for those who love Traditional music, to stop being SOOO snobbishly superior and admit that there are many young people who can't relate to many of the ancient hymns and who find God's words easier to hear in newer music. And y'know what? That's ok. Good even. Not second class.

Sheilagh, if worship were primarily about doing what pleases us, you might have a point. But worship is always directed toward God, and the Church has written that Gregorian Chant should have pride of place in worship, being a form of music eminently suited to the praise of God.

That's not snobbery; that's understanding that some things are more easily capable of transmitting that sense of the sacred which is essential to worship than other things are. We know this, don't we? Or wouldn't we use paper plates and plastic wineglasses at Mass?

It's long since past time to get rid of the musical equivalents of disposable dishware that have been clinging to the Church like the tattered remnants of an ill-conceived burlap banner since the late 1960s, and no amount of appeals to inculturation changes that fact.

Actually, Daniel, people who are capable of leaving the Church over music have deeper problems with the faith, generally speaking, than just the music. And that goes just as much for the radical traditionalists as it would, hypothetically, for those who would leave in protest over a ban on "Here I Am, Lord."

One of the biggest problems in discussing this issue is that so many Catholics take the "four-hymn sandwich" aspect of liturgical music as being the only sort of liturgical music that matters. What we're already overlooking when we frame the conversation this way is that in its highest form, the Mass itself is meant to be sung, and doing that in the fullest sense requires something that goes beyond the "Gather" hymnal.

People forget that what was envisioned by Vatican II was a Mass where the parts would be sung not merely by the priest and a highly-trained choir, but by the priest, the choir, and the congregation, who would learn many of the various parts of the Mass. Not only has that not happened, but many in the congregation have given up singing even the hymns, since so many of the modern compositions contain excruciating vocal ranges, difficult-to-grasp syncopation, and an assumption of technique or sight-reading ability that the average Catholic at Mass simply doesn't possess.

I sing in my parish choir, and I can tell you, when we pull out one of the "old favorite" hymns like "Hail, Holy Queen" the congregation forgoes the usual post-final-blessing dash for the doors and *sings,* not because they're a bunch of old-fogey traditionalists (hardly!) but because they know the song, and can actually sing it.

Perhaps Daniel's slur on the good people of Mexico and Africa is accurate and they are formed in vulgar cultures and learn to hate beauty. I would not have thought that to be the case given their musical traditions, but I will defer to his expertise. But in America I have not experienced any clamor for the Glory and Praise or Gather hymnals outside of a very small group of music experts with very bad taste. Like Erin, my experience has been when traditional hymns are sung, the congregation sings. When weird dissonant songs or strange hippy folk tunes are sung the congregation mostly scratches itself. If your experience differs, Daniel, I recommend you check under the flexible seating for pods.

The use of the snarky "craptastic" should have clued me in that Rod posted this, not Erin. My confusion.

Erin:

I have no dog in the hunt about the music one way or the other, but ...

Who decides what is proper worship toward G-d in the Catholic Church? Men (and I emphasize men, not women).

Who, last I checked, are not G-d. So who knows what REALLY pleases G-d?

I'm just sayin'.

Sorry, I've been unable to respond til now. Kids on vacation. Time at a premium.

Erin, it's interesting you should mention the idea of a sung mass. My husband is Melkite Catholic and their entire mass is sung. It is truly beautiful to hear and I'm sure those who attend enjoy the music. Is it not pleasing to God that people enjoy the music at mass?

Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and the Light. Not the music. Of course everything we sing should be scripturally sound. But why does Art or Creativity or Music just have to exist in the past.

Should it be that once we discover something great. There will never be another attempt at greatness, That's the end of it? Once the Sistine Chapel was completed. There was no further need for one to paint?

I just don't 'get' the condescension and hatred of newer music. Maybe I never will. Sure some of it should be ditched - that's true of any art form. But I liked it when "Be not afraid" was played as I walked up for Confirmation. I still remember it. And I like hearing scriptures in a new way. It adds to my understanding and prayerfulness.

There is not just one way to pray. And there is not just one way to sing that pleases God.

I am not saying Banish the past. I'm saying Keep the Best and Be open to new expressions of Faith. Where I go to church noone scratches. When the music plays, people sing and yes parents and children sometimes clap and even smile. And maybe they get the sense that God is Good and they have much to be thankful for. And they truly celebrate Mass.