The cultural left's self-hatred

Sounds like this was written by a bunch of lawyers. "We must balance the interests in our ivory towers and act as if every aspect of life is a piece in the ultimate chess game that can and should be re-arranged, all girded toward the ultimate end of our little utilitarian paradise."

It certainly doesn't seem very Christmasy of them.

Not all American liberals define themselves by the British "loony left," Rod.

This does remind me of Ben Stein's comment that he loves when people wish him a Merry Christmas in December (Stein being Jewish), because he would rather people have "peace on earth and goodwill towards humankind" no matter WHAT their religion is.

From the article Rod linked to:
Even-handedness dictates that we provide public recognition to minority cultures and traditions.

"If we are going to continue as a nation to mark Christmas - and it would be very hard to expunge it from our national life even if we wanted to - then public organisations should mark other religious festivals too.

"We can no longer define ourselves as a Christian nation, nor an especially religious one in any sense.

I read this as not trying to downgrade Christmas but to mark other celebrations as well. I'm English and where I live the local council will soon be putting out the Christmas decorations on the main street. However, there was nothing put up to mark Eid, there's nothing to mark Diwali and a significant part of the local population celebrate these festivals. I think if we celebrate one, we celebrate all.

The birth ceremony seems a bit strange. But you have to remember that most people aren't baptised. There's no ceremony to welcome a child into the community - the parents just go and fill in a form at the local registry office. Perhaps they're suggesting a more formal way to celebrate a child's birth.

"Still, I prefer it to the cultural right's hatred of, well, everyone else."

Allen,

YOU are NOT everyone else.

Franklin,

I think it's a going a bit overboard to call South Street a "main drag", unless things have really changed in the 12 years since I moved from Philadelphia. I mean, it's not as if they're closing Broad Street, right?

A few years ago, my very pious aunt asked my nephew on X-mas morning, "And whose birthday is it today?" My nephew, lacking only a Yiddish accent responded, "Today is someone's birthday?"

Yeah, secularism!

"A report by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) suggested this while pointing out that it would be hard to "expunge" Christmas from the national calendar. It said that "even-handedness" means public organisations must start giving other religions equal footing. "

Christmas/Yule has three levels:

1. The pagan basis, of mainly Scandinavian-Germanic origin, with som Celtic and Roman influence. Most of the traditional festivities are of this type.
2. The Christian overlay.
3. The modern drunken/consumerist medley

It's actually quite difficult to distinguish these, even amoung practising Christians. I think it's a bit silly seeing Christmas as a specifically Christian celebration.

One odd thing is that a lot of extreme Protestants used to disapprove of Christmas. The people in the USA who are loudest about the downgrading of Christmas are Evangelicals, yet the early Puritan settlers did not recognise Christmas. Christmas is not a big deal in Scotland, due to Presbyterian traditions, and in places where schismatic Presbyterian sects ike the Wee Frees are powerful, such as the Hebridees and parts of N. Ireland, Christmas is virtually banned. Some fringe-Protestant groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses and Plain Truthers are also hostile to Christmas.

In Japan, under the US Occupation, all religious holidays were abolished, and a new set of invented, secular ones were imposed. However, every year the same debate arises, with people objecting to a public holiday on New Year's Day, as it has Shinto significance. I think these debates are a bit silly; if Eid were part of mainstream, more-or-less-secular cultural expression in the UK, it would be appropriate for it to be a public holiday, but it isn't.

Can someone explain to me the difference between hatred of Christianity and rejection of it as a personal spirituality?

I've been accused many times of hating Christianity upon the realization that I have no intention of converting to it, but especially upon knowing my support for the notion that Christianity should not be allowed to dictate culture to non-Christians. Before I extend my anecdotal evidence to the general case, I thought I should ask.

Franklin,

Should a political party or the state really be regulating and using its power to de-emphasize or overemphasize traditions? It's mechanistic, utilitarian, and depressing.

I think it is inevitable that the majority (even if loose or not strong) is going to have traditions which will have an impact on what people see on a daily basis. This is just the way life is--if I put up a Christmas tree in my shop or yard, a non-Christian will likely see it. Humans build social institutions which translate into culture. It saddens me that almost all restaurants/stores apparently forbid their employees from saying "Merry Christmas". It's depressing. Do I like having someone tell me Merry Christmas? Yes. There's nothing inherent in this and other expressions meant to foist religion on someone--it is what it is, and things have become so absurd that almost nobody dares use the label Christmas on anything. We can have the public celebrations, but we just cannot utter what it means to most people.

Mik_infidelos, besides the fantasy apparently playing out in your mind concerning what I actually wrote versus what you would like this topic to be about, I have yet to see you respond in a rational fashion to a rational post. If you wish to build that in your imagination into a grand conspiracy to get revenge for the forced suicide of my uncle in the 10th century, please be sure to provide references and citations.

Who is a thug here? That would be you, sirrah.

Don, the de facto Christian hegemony in the US should not need any explanation from me or anyone else. The cultural experience of every generation in the US has included the persecution -- mostly in mundane and relatively mild ways, but occasionally with great vigor and violence -- of religious minorities. Though I shouldn't need to, our hysterical friend above prompts me to point out that the vast majority of targets of that persecution were (and are) members of Christian minority sects. Check the history of Roman Catholicism on this continent.

Allow me to reiterate my question in a more direct way. Consider, please, the long history of Christian cultural expression and the embedding of Christian holidays into our social structure. The usual non-Christian's experience, from the stand point of the Christian belief that it is the sole arbitrator of truth, is to have his or her non-Christian practices -- let alone holidays -- denied any legitimacy. Ask a long string of Jews going back to the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, for example, how long it's been since their observance of Friday sundown as the beginning of Shabat has been respected by employers. Ask the Jewish shopowners who had to stay open on Friday and Saturday because opening on Sunday was against the law. The strict observance of Shabat, in my not humble opinion, has been beaten out of Jews over time, and is now thought to be the sole province of Orthodox Jews.

I hope you've seen me state the following on this blog at least once: political correctness is the first refuge of bigots and cowards. The celebration of diversity is not to dilute what is out there, but to simply give room for free expression. No non-Christian I've ever encountered -- and I've met quite a few from all parts of the US -- has ever supported the notion that Christian expression must be suppressed. They have one simple requirement: that the Christian hegemony surrender its control over them, and give them the same freedom of expression that the Christian majority has enjoyed in this country as a privilege over all others.

Hence my question: why should I lend any credence to a Christian lamenting his loss of that privilege by accusing me of religious hatred?

There is an example of how it should work, right here in Philadelphia. For many years a significant minority and for a while a majority of public school teachers were Jews. The school district scheduled school closings around the High Holy Days out of a simple business decision: it was much more economical to adjust their schedule than to try to bring in so many substitutes. In recent years, that statistic has fallen drastically, until now they do not work so hard to adjust their schedule. There was not before, during or since any discussion in the Jewish community about this, let alone activism or protest. Reality was dealt with, directly, rationally, and without fanfare. At every point, those Jews who wished it had time off from work to attend to their religious practices. No fuss. Compare that, if you will, to evangelicals showing up at public pagan rituals with bullhorns, or formal protests from Christians every time a non-Christian is invited to participate directly in US culture (the Hindu prayer in Congress; the denial of non-Christians' similar participation at the state and municipal levels; the need to go to court so that non-Christian clergy other than Jews can become military chaplains; need I list more?)

Don, I'm glad to be able to have this exchange with you. In particular, you wrote: people are too afraid of offending others, and I find that to be the primary symptom of the danger of political correctness.

Too many see that as an excuse to bypass the fact, embedded in the culture of the US, that every person has the right to express the beliefs and opinions they have.

I want people to be offended. I also want them to have the courage to engage in dialog about what offends them, but always short of using that offense as the weapon to destroy the freedom.

I would much rather have them at my ritual with the bullhorns, and be arrested for it of course, than be unaware of their City Hall backroom exhortations and threats that result in it being impossible for me to hold my public ritual.

Marian,

Life is too short to be offended by someone saying Merry Christmas. It's a pretty strong staple of western civilization, and because of that tradition, I don't see why there isn't at least something appreciable most anyone could find in the word "Christmas". It's really a fairly innocuous and passive statement. If I tell Franklin, for instance, "Merry Christmas", he does not need to take it as me telling him he should participate in a Christian ritual. It's an expression of something that is dear to me as a human. There is enough in that word, even without expunging the religion, to denote items common to everyone.

I don't know that we need to go out of our way to offend people--maybe we all should just have thicker skin--or else risk in an increasingly alienating society!!

"There is no such thing as leftist "self-hatred". Nobody loves himself more than a leftist."

Phew, thanks for establishing that. Now I don't have to go through admonitions concerning that premise.

But as for me, I will reiterate, "oh, no! Here we go on the War against Christmas." agin. It's going to become my favorite carol here right quick. "Christmas is coming ... hear the whining start...."

I guess, the self-[hating?] [loving?] leftists will go down in history for promoting one war in history, and that'd be the one against Christmas.

BTW Merry Christmas. I know it's early, but I love getting an early start on Christmas myself.

Heifer