Apple lemon update

Rod, you sure you don't live in Plano? Your I'm-privileged-because-I-paid-to-be-privileged attitude screams West Plano breeding.

Stuff happens. Especially when you have stuff.

You go get 'em Rod.

Seriously, with the history you've had, you had little chance of getting any help until you saw the manager. And if he doesn't provide an IMMEDIATE AND COMPLETE resolution (to wit, a new machine) I'd go higher in the structure without delay.

As a last resort you could always file a case in small claims court. Not only would that rattle their cages, it would cost them more to deal with than giving you a new computer. You can't take a lawyer in but neither can they.

Gosh, Harvey. What happened to the self-proclaimed messiah of compassion (the I-was-lucky-to-be-born-compassionate bit from the Derb thread)?

If a store sells me a warranty, care plan, service contract, or other item with the promise that my purchase of said item will expedite service on the item, and then refuses to honor that promise, that's pretty darned close to fraud. And being unhappy with the situation seems more like the reaction of any intelligent person that it does a "privileged attitude."

Do you have any items, tools, vehicles, etc., Harvey, that are essential to the accomplishment of YOUR job? Do you pay for insurance or warranties on these items so that if they break you will not lose productivity while a lengthy repair process drags on? Would you be pretty steamed if the company responsible for the repair failed to restore your piece of equipment to you in working order as promptly as promised, especially if this was impacting your ability to do your job?

Erin, Erin, feel the compassion. It's here. I don't go running in and running over a manager, not my style. There but for good fortune go you or I. And how in the heck would like someone coming in and demanding the moon and you kissing it?

Rod and me are at heart good old boys. Good old boys don't throw snot slinging fits at managers, not our style. We explain things and people understand.

Do you have any items, tools, vehicles, etc., Harvey, that are essential to the accomplishment of YOUR job? Erin Manning

This is a trick question, right?

I create stuff out of steel, stone, and wood. All that takes a wide variety of power and hand tools. I would bet that I have more personal tools than anyone you know. And occasionally stuff will happen, that's life in the city when you're this close to living in the country.

Maybe part of my patience with this tool thing is most of my work is what I call twofering. I not only get to make something, I usually get the pleasure of making some of the tools to make making makeable, twofering.

"I would bet that I have more personal tools than anyone you know."

I would only take that bet if my maternal grandfather were still living. :)

Still, Harvey, if you had one tool essential to finishing one job and it broke, and replacing it wasn't a financial option, but the people who were supposed to fix it kept giving you the run-around, I'd bet you'd get pretty unhappy with the situation.

Now, I know from my late grandpa that craftsmen make their own tools and have a variety of ways to make do with tools that may only be the second cousin to the right tool for the job, but in Rod's case, it's a little hard to come up with a substitute for his computer. Daniel might suggest Rod write this blog along with his myriad of other daily and weekly assignments on handmade parchment, illuminating the edges of the paper using a variety of homemade inks, but I have a feeling neither the Dallas Morning News or Beliefnet would find this acceptable.

Interesting mm, no lawyers in small claims in California. Of course sending counsel in - I doubt in-house counsel could make their way in small claims - makes it even more expensive for Apple.

Damages? How about what he paid for a computer that doesn't work? According to the UCC, goods have to be fit for their intended use. How bad does it have to get before the court gives up on this thing and says, this piece of junk isn't worth what Rod paid for it, or anything really? It's an argument anyhow.

I'd argue that when I pay $X for a computer, I'm paying for a computer that computes, not that has to be brought repeatedly back to the shop so they can perform the same repair over and over. That's breach of contract. Once, OK. But this is ridiculous.

Apple won't let it get that far. I predict that the manager of the store will make it right.

Oh Erin, not the "my grandpa" thing. ;>)

I've had people older than me stand there and watch me work and tell me how I remind them of their grandpa. I even had one guy much older than me who would come by to watch me work and tell me everytime that I reminded him of his dad because of the way I worked.

I can appreciate Rod's position. My truck is a rolling workshop. When it's down I have to do some shuffling of chores. It's only happened a couple of times and everytime I was fortunate enough to have alternatives as far as projects.

This morning one of my most important tools is acting up. Three or four years ago I went to the doctor because of shoulder and chest pains. The culprit was found after some tests. I have severe carpul tunnel damage to both hands. Last night the right hand went numb and the wrist started throbbing. This morning there's quite a bit of pain. It is one of the ironies of life that some of the things that I love doing most are repetitive motions. It's almost like the musician losing his hearing if you know what I mean.

We can be unhappy. We can be angry with the situation. But throwing a fit and making threats only belittles us. That manager doesn't live in a vaccum. He knows how important Rod's Apple is to him and I'm sure he'll do what's right.

I am going in to see the manager face to face tomorrow. And I am not going to be a pleasant customer to deal with.

Yikes! Put down that wireless keyboard sir!

Maybe this is another symbolic weeping icon/pederast, telling you to abandon the gizmos and attendant stress of technology-based life. Wendell Berry doesn't use computers. Just think how much happier and crunchier you'd be without one!

Computers are major causes of pollution, taking lots of energy and fresh water to produce, and then clogging landfills with all sorts of toxic stuff when they're discarded a few years later.

Ditch the Apple. Get a pencil.

I switched to Apple, and I mean converted completely, earlier this year. My first notebook was a Dell, bought almost five years ago, which I ordered and had within a week, no muss, no fuss. Great experience. On the basis of that experience, I ordered my wife's notebook a little over two years ago from Dell, and it took almost two months to get it. Tracking showed it as delivered to the post office. The post office said they didn't have it, and that I needed to contact the carrier. Carrier said they didn't have it, that they tracked by pallet and not by individual package, so apparently the individual package had been lost in transit, and I needed to contact Dell and ask them to ship another one. Dell would assure me that they'd ship another one, only to kick the replacement out of the system within 24 hours because they showed that my order had been delivered. They'd then tell me I needed to contact the carrier, who would then tell me I needed to contact the post office, who would then tell me I needed to contact the carrier, who would then tell me I needed to contact Dell. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Nobody at Dell would do anything. I'd ask to speak to a manager and then be placed on hold for an hour, clearly hoping I'd go away. I'd then call back and very firmly say, "I've been on hold for an hour. Connect me to a manager right now." I'd be told, "I'll connect you right now, sir," and it would still be 5-10 minutes before anybody would pick up the phone. When I'd get a manager, I'd recount the story from the beginning, then be told by this person how speechless my story left them, and they'd make sure I'd either get a refund or a replacement within 24 hours. I'd call back within 24 hours to verify this, only to be told that not only had neither happened, they had no idea why I had been told what I had been told because their system showed my order as delivered, and the person to whom I had spoken the night before wasn't anybody who had the authority to make a decision contradicting that. Or something. Then I'd ask to speak to a manager, and I'd be told that there wasn't one there to whom I could speak, and that I needed to contact the carrier. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Meanwhile, of course, they had over $2,000 of my money. I had paid with a debit card since credit card was not an option at that point.

After literally weeks of this nonsense, I sent an eight-page letter documenting the entire experience with names, dates, times, etc. to Dell Corporate Headquarters in Texas, attention Michael Dell via FedEx Priority Overnight. I also filed a complaint with the Texas Attorney General, and started contacting Austin newspapers. I also started spamming the e-mail addresses of every Dell executive I could find, including Michael Dell, on an hourly basis, letting them know I had done this.

Within an hour of letting them all know I had contacted the AG, I got a call from Dell's Executive Services office saying, effectively, "We're building you a new computer right now, and it will be shipped overnight to you within 24 hours. We'll talk compensation for your trouble once you have it."

Of course, it was still another week before I had it, and unfortunately, that wasn't exactly the end of it. First of all, they tried to offer me a 10% off coupon for my next Dell purchase (which of course would need to be used within six months or something), and I said no. I told them, you've got 30+ hours of my time and a customer's goodwill on your account; try again. They gave me a 10% refund and that was that, and that was enough to already guarantee I'd never spend another dime with them.

Alas, it didn't even end there--I started getting harassing letters from their Returns Department saying that their records showed that an exchange model had been shipped, but they had never received the original back. I needed to return the original ASAP or my warranty would be cancelled, I would be sent to collections, etc. I shot them off an e-mail, copying the person in Corporate who had helped me, saying that this was a replacement for an item that was lost in shipping; please contact such-and-such for details. I got an e-mail reply saying ok, sorry, we'll take care of it from here.

A month later I got another notice from them, significantly nastier than the first. I sent another e-mail to the same folks, copying Executive Services again and including a copy of their previous e-mail, saying, Once again, this was a replacement for something you lost. This was your mistake, not mine, there never was an original to return, which was the whole point of this exercise in the first place. Please leave me alone, and contact such-and-such to figure out how to fix this, not me, and I will never, ever, ever, spend another cent with Dell.

I got a conciliatory e-mail back from them saying, sorry, we'll take care of it, hope your next experience with Dell is better.

When the time came to buy my next laptop, I bought a MacBook. I had it within 24 hours of ordering it, and the one warranty repair I've needed was no trouble. Right now Apple has my goodwill, but my loyalty to any corporation right now is dependent on them not squandering it. My advice to anybody having to deal with problems like this is--document, document, document, and do not hesitate to ask for the next person up in the food chain, although it may take some cleverness on your part to figure out how to get them if the system is designed to make them inaccessible.

Richard

This is when it pays to have geek blood in you. I built my main computer several years ago. It's showing its age, and we could stand an upgrade. I'm thinking if we do that, I'll buy a new machine, transfer documents and XP there, and then install Linux (OK, I know I just lost all my geek cred by admitting that I don't run Linux at home yet) on our current one.

If I were a working-class Latina lesbian having these problems with a product I paid for, and for which I paid extra for premium service, Daniel and Harvey would be storming the Apple store on my behalf.

Jeff, my kid says - don't tell his boss - that Vista is right now "the bleeding edge" and should be avoided until they get the bugs out. (I run both systems on my Intel Mac, that's why I know. But really I only run Windows once in a blue moon, when some retarded court website doesn't recognize reality.)

For the same reason I'm not upgrading yet to the new Apple OS (Pussycat or whatever they're calling it). Let other people be the Beta testers.

Erin, he's already let you blog while he was gone so you don't need to be teacher's pet ALL the time. :)

Cute, Daniel. ;)

Let's see now. Agreeing with Rod makes one a teacher's pet; what do we call the people who show up on the blog daily who never agree with anything he writes?

I mean, c'mon. A little healthy give and take is a good thing (and for those with short memories I've had my share of those exchanges with our host, just like most of us). But there has to be some "give" in that equation. When is the last time Rod wrote anything where you found any common ground for agreement, Daniel? I suspect it's been a while.

Well, I'd say "critical thinkers" would either find agreement with Rod from time to time, or move on to a blog where they don't end up taking the opposition point *all* the time. But I suppose your willingness to do so is actually a complement to Rod's writing, since you find his ideas compelling enough for you to continue to come here daily regardless of your level of disagreement.

"Yuppie whining?" Really? Because of course a computer is just as unnecessary to a *professional writer* as a collection of expensive golf clubs or the latest flat panel TV is to the average yuppie consumer.

I guess, Rod, this crowd won't be happy till you start the whole "illuminated manuscript" thing--and even then will be willing to pile on if you ever share your difficulties in the quill pen manufacturing process.

Do we need a group hug?

Rod, take it under advisement. If the darn thing crashes again, run back with documents and cram it down this guy's throat, OK??

Rod,

I smell runaround too. Unless you have had to power off/power on the surge protector as part of the "get it to power up again" recovery process, I'm suspicious. Normally a fluctuation in power should cause it to go to battery power. While I don't recommend doing this each time it thunderstorms, my Apple laptop (a powerbook g4) has proven itself nimble at switching from A/C going off (we have an old house too with power service that is easily disrupted by various falling trees in our rural neighborhood).

A perfectly reasonable test before you do anything is to run if directly off your A/C (i.e. no surge protector in between) and see if you see the same problem.

I have some serious Apple-philic geeks I can consult if you are looking for yet more opinions on whether managing this directly via Apple or thru the store is the way to go.

Thanks for the assist, Jim.

Far from disagreeing with your point, Susan, I agree with it.
The problem with e-communication is that many subtleties of facial expression and voice are simply not there; one must be careful.

For example, we could interpret Rod's post as a friendly tweak at a regular reader who Rod knows can take it, have a chuckle, and keep reading. Certainly Harvey was asking for a rejoinder, Rod chose to throw Daniel in as well.

We can take Daniel's to Erin as yet another, the smiley indicating he knew he was being a bit outrageous.

Or we could read them more at face value.

Personally, I like God Is A Heretic's approach. Long ellipses always calme me down ..........

That's my sense, Jim. Rod's writing style is pretty snarky and bitchy, when he wants to be. He likes tossing out hand grenades to get a reaction. Just look at the post above this one. Or anyone where he mentions Al Sharpton.

So if that's the tenor of discussion, I assume a certain amount of sharp elbows and a little fun back is to be expected. You can't be Snidely McSnide than expect everyone to behave look cherubic kids.

If I were a working-class Latina lesbian having these problems with a product I paid for, and for which I paid extra for premium service, Daniel and Harvey would be storming the Apple store on my behalf.
Posted by: Rod Dreher

Doggone tootin'! You could bet your sweet bippy on that one. I've got enough west coast in me to have a soft spot for the latina and the lesbian. Just enough of the southern gentleman has rubbed off since I've been in Texas to appreciate stepping up for the ladies.

Even if I do believe anyone who has an Apple is asking for it.

BTW, I asked my artist/client/vendor/friend about his Apples and issues. He had the same thing Rod's described happen to his desktop and he was told the same thing Rod was. He said he's had forty five minute conversations with Apple management a time or two.

Well, Mr. Sig was happily eating roasted free-range chicken with herbs and onions, in conjunction with some CalRose rice and black beans simmered with chopped peppers and carrots, when I appealed for his counsel, so he wasn't inclined to drop his plate and grab the iBook G4 that I'm typing on.

He did say (with his mouth full) that he'd heard Apple was more interested in selling than maintaining. Then he looked over my shoulder at the post in question and added mournfully, "So--he bought this thing two years ago? And he expects his sweet little plastic iFruit to last a thousand years? Oh that poor, poor deluded boy." So that's the word from my resident computer expert.

I probably value computers less than anyone else on this thread, but ... I think that, unfortunately, most repairs probably do end up taking three to five days, at least for major problems, and no matter what you might be told initially. (I wouldn't have purchased a repair upgrade, because I wouldn't have thought it would make any difference.) Not only that, but the repairs might not be totally to your liking, and as Loudon suggests above, you might end up buying a new computer anyway. I don't think any one brand is immune from problems.
(I'm a long-time Apple laptop user with no real complaints, but I only use a computer to connect to the Internet. No quill pen and parchment nearby, but I write everything (letters, book reviews, etc.) by hand, and type some of it on an IBM Selectric--talk about ease of repair! I also still edit book manuscripts by hand.)

Harvey (far above in the thread)--very funny comment (although I'm laughing with Rod, not at him).
Re: Daniel--I appreciate his contributions for their consistency and lack of rudeness. I don't think this one remark is representative of his comments.

I would like to ask everyone here for permission to forward this entire thread to my next door neighbor Jeff, who is high in Apple. He was formerly in charge of hiring and training of all Apple store personnel; he has now been moved "upstairs" to a position I don't exactly understand. But I think Apple management would be much interested.

Jeff and Apple would both be interested, I think. Please signify your consent by message to this blog. I will omit people who do not do so in my message to Jeff.

For those of you who are hung upon irrelevant issues, I will disclose that Jeff is now for these many years the registered domestic partner of Brad. Those bad, bad homosexuals, who will ... what was the problem again? It's hard to communicate across the cultural divide between....we on the coasts and you in the "heartland"? Sometimes I think we're in the same world; sometimes I think we're on different planets.

Whatever.

Susan, it's fine with me if you forward my rather flippant comment. I asked Mr. Sig if he'd like to add anything, and he said:

"I suspect if you asked someone in Apple management what our rights were, he would say, correctly, 'The machine is warranted for one year.' We all would like our machines to last longer. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't."

He then added: "I guess you could tell him from me that all Apple users wish their machines were as good as their software."

So, FWIW. Thanks and good luck! I'll be very interested to hear what Jeff says.

And btw, one of my closest friends is gay. And I love him. Not to mention all my other gay friends.

Susan--you have my permission to forward my comments.

Making a big fuss over it, or any fuss at all, seems so...weird. We're all thinking, if we think about it at all, which mostly we don't...what is THAT all about??!? Susan

Probably one of the most common questions I get as the father of a gay son is, "do you know what they do to each other?"

I mean what kind of parent thinks about their kids sex lives? I think I share a common human trait with most folks. There are two groups of people that we don't associate with having sex, our kids and our parents. I don't wonder about the sex lives of my daughters, or sons.

Ok, Rod...if indeed you have a wiring problem in your house, another item you need to heavily consider picking up is an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS). These typically function like a surge protector strip with multiple outlets but they also have a small battery backup in them such that if the power is going on and off randomly from the outlet, it doesn't shut your machine off. The machine will run on the backup battery for a little while. Depending on how much you want to spend it can give you anywhere from a few minutes to perhaps an hour before the battery runs down to save your work and shutdown the computer properly.

If you get one of those and this problem persists, then you know for certain they're full of crap and can raise hell about it.

"Update: Just got off the phone with a techie at the Apple store. He was the one who replaced the power supply component last time. He said he's had the machine running for three days, without a power problem at all. He's suggesting that the problem could be faulty wiring in our house (possible, given how old our house is), a faulty power cord, or a faulty surge protector."

Yeah, right. We spent three years trying to get the cable company to do something about our lousy reception. Aside from all the missed and cancelled appointments with the repair techs, when we finally actually got to talk to a live person face to face, the first one told us it had to do with my husband's remarkably intricate home theatre rig. So we demonstrated that when we ran the cable directly into the tv, we got the same lousy reception. Then they got really creative and blamed it on our "bad electricity." While Commonwealth Edison is not exactly our favorite people (though obviously more dependable than the cable company), we were pretty sure this was a flight of fancy, since other people in our building were getting decent cable reception. Finally we actually got somebody willing to go up on the roof and ascertain that the cable was improperly connected up there. It took three years, but we have decent reception now. So don't take the techie's gripes about your electricity seriously. It's the last refuge of the lazy and incompetent.