Via Andrew Sullivan, this video of Rudy Giuliani on Meet the Press yesterday. About 3 1/2 minutes in, Tim Russert asks him Rudy if he thinks homosexuality is a sin. He responds:
"Oh no, no, no, I don't believe it's sinful. My moral views on this come from the Catholic Church. I believe that homosexuality, heterosexuality, as a way that somebody leads their life isn't sinful, it's the acts, it's the various acts that people perform that are sinful, not the orientation that they have. Which includes me, by the way. Unfortunately, I have had my own sins that I've had to confess and to deal with and try to overcome. So I'm very, very empathetic with people. We're all imperfect human beings, struggling to try to be better."
This is, of course, bumbleheaded base-stealing. There is a point somewhere in there -- the Catholic Church does teach that a homosexual orientation, while intrinsically disordered, is not in and of itself sinful. The chaste homosexual does not sin, unless he is unchaste, according to Catholic teaching. But most gays reject the idea that their affections are intrinsically disordered. I find it impossible to believe that Rudy Giuliani accepts the Catholic Church's teaching on this matter. Does he really believe that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered? Somebody should ask him. I'm betting his rambling answer left a lot of people, Catholic and otherwise, scratching their heads. He's trying to keep the GOP's social and religious conservatives off his back by playing like he's a faithful Catholic, but I'm betting nobody buys it. He'd be better off simply being honest.
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Erin said: I used the word "depravity" in a theological sense; it was a deliberate choice to avoid the more commonly used (and recently, on this blog, overused) word "disorder." But the meaning is pretty much the same in context: the word "depravity" in its Latin root implies a kind of crooked or altered state, in opposition to the natural order.
In current standard English, though, depravity means "moral corruption or degradation; a depraved act or condition" (American Heritage Dictionary 4th edition). I expect most readers of this blog default to the current meaning, as sadly devolved as that might be.
Mrs. Pringle
Erin:
For the record, I can't abide Oprah, even though I am of course a major Obama fan.
But just from the political calculus, it would be silly to say Oprah isn't an asset to Obama, don't you think?
"the phrase "depravity of gay marriage" was meant to express the reality that a Catholic (even a politician) can never see gay marriage as something good in itself which should or ought to be codified in law."
Never??? I read that some 80% of Catholics DO support gay marriage.
I always find it sad that you see me as nothing more, less or other than an"erring brother". How much more condescension would you care to pass our way?
God's law is His Love -- and His Law for marriage is one man and one union who become one flesh in bringing forth children. It doesn't matter how many Catholics favor "gay marriage". . .The word marriage connotes a union of opposites. . .gay people are the same, not oppposites. . .
How anyone sees you and your concern about someone else's condescension indicate that you and your feelings are the focus of the matter for you. . .you want your feelings to be more important than what Scripture teaches. . .Sodomy is a sin. Scripture makes that point -- not the writers here. It's tough when God doesn't get in line with our feelings.
correction: . . ."one man and one woman"
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