Illegal immigration and elites

That sounds like a dirty secret that no one wants to talk about. Maybe The Dallas Observer might be willing to write about it.

I suspect the "elites" probably know, but major politicians know that they'd be branded with a big KKK if they spoke up about this and turned it into a campaign. (And, unfortunately, it likely would attract all the David Duke types.)

Of course, "elites" like Rod, the conservative punditocricy and most of the Republicans in the Senate and running for president are rabid anti-immigrant activists, so there is no "elite" consensus. "Elites" are all over the place on the issue and arguably we are all out of touch with the realities of immigration and its impact since all of us profit from it one way or another.

The problem with Rod's ever-ready "elites" arguments is that it allows people like the City Council member off the hook for taking responsibility for outcomes because they are raging against the symptoms. If there is trash, loud parties, rodents, etc., there are plenty of ways to respond without playing ICE agent. Policing and code enforcement would be an easier way to solve the problems of Farmers Branch--just ask gentrifiers like those in Rod's neighborhood what happens when you call the police and enforce building codes (or create new ones).

But instead of taking responsibility for a declining working-class suburb or the faltering schools or an inefficient health care system, conservative elites just blame illegal immigrants. Where was all this concern about Farmers Branch before immigration became an issue? Where was concern about the schools? About health care? What were conservative elites saying about the problems of those in poverty before illegal immigrants could be the scapegoat de jour?

What were conservative elites saying about the problems of those in poverty before illegal immigrants could be the scapegoat de jour?

Yeah. There are plenty of places that have problems that do not have a large number of people who are in the country illegal. Poor rural (but non-farming) areas and poor urban areas both.

Here's a fun game to play: Replace 'illegal immigrants' with 'poor' and see if what they're saying still seems to make sense.

For more fun, replace 'poor English skills' with 'Ebonics'. (Too much? Okay, let's get rid of the racist implications...try 'cockney accent' and pretend you're in My Fair Lady. Or how about a real thick southern accent?)

Mr. O'Hare is not exactly waking up to that it's a problem of population density going up- of the practice of more intelligent government, not so much the preciousness of the laws and White Flight surburbia of a few decades ago lasting forever.

Of course the real Texan elites, the people that actually get the legislature and cities to set rules and tax rates their way, know it's bad out there for lower middle class people. But that's a feature, not a bug, of a conservative-run political system. Middle class people who vote their resentments and fears rather than their real interests are the best marks to stick with regressive backdoor tax increases. Just keep 'em distracted fighting liberals.

Harvey, as usual, spouts off regarding things about which he knows absolutely nothing.

I live in a "nice" area of Los Angeles, where graffitti is now everywhere. On the front of a nearby building, they keep writing,"KILL ALL BLUE EYED PEOPLE." The owner cleans it off, and it reappears the next day.
I was robbed, at gunpoint, by three Latino gangbangers the day after Christmas two years ago(in my "upscale" neighborhood)
The schools are filled with resentful Mexican kids who refuse to say the pledge in the morning, and complain that "the white people stole our land." They throw the free lunches on the ground, refuse to do school work, and prefer to disrupt and threaten.
Over 90% of the outstanding murder warrants in SOCA are for illegal aliens. Special Order 40(sanctuary law) ties the hands of the LAPD so that they can't do anything about illegal alien criminals.
Scores of hospitals and hospital emergency rooms have had to close down because they were overrun by illegals, and couldn't afford to stay open.
And the government does nothing, because left wing fools like Harvey want the Latinos to swell the ranks of the Democratic party, and right wing fools want the cheap labor.
So, a permanent underclass just continues to grow and grow, refusing to assimilate, and if left unchecked will one day cause a civil war.

Most Hispanic Americans tend to oppose illegal immigration

Sources please.
You do have sources, right?
You would not pull this from your behind, would you?

harvey lacey sez:

If Farmers Branch had taken care of business as a community it wouldn't be in decline and there wouldn't be a problem an influx of poor people, Mexicans, legal or illegal.

If you have taken a proper care of your family as an individual, you would be now on a beach in Cancun frying your behind.

But you didn't and now have chutzpah to blame victims for the distruction of their neigborhood by your beloved illegals.

So, what, exactly, is this Farmer's Branch council member doing about it?

Does Farmer's Branch have zoning laws? Are there occupancy laws? Doesn't Farmer's Branch have statutes concerning garbage and junk on the property?

Most civilized areas have such laws, and the good ones enforce those laws.

Gil, they were asking for more than a drivers license. You can bet that while Rod or I--both white guys--wouldn't have been asked at all or gotten away with just showing minimal identificiation, you or your Pedro would have been asked to provide a passport, pressed to show that you are actually a citizen, forced to show multiple forms.

See, landlords are not experts on immigration documentation. Immigration is not a local or state responsibility and ICE agents are given actual training in understanding what documentation is proper and what isn't, who is illegal and who isn't.

But this City Council man and Rod seem to think that landlords should play ICE agent and quiz people about their immigration status--likely making numerous mistakes and not bothering to quiz anyone who isn't Latino--even though the city has no legal right to be involved in immigration enforcement.

"I will not blame any person or community if they engage in vigilante tactics to fight back against this disaster."

Fortunately, the courts have more perspective and common sense than you do. We are not under seige. This town isn't under seige; to the contrary, it is flourishing.

I have to show my Driver's License whenever I: go to the bank, buy a house, rent an apartment, cash a check, get pulled over by law enforcement, apply for a loan, and, open a credit account.

None of those have anything to do with citizenship, which is rather obvious, as a driver's license doesn't prove citizenship.

One of them is proving you are licensed to drive (Which is obviously the point of a driver's license.), many of them are just proving identification, and the rest are proving identification which is then followed up by a credit check. People in the country illegally can probably only do the second of those things.

But, more to the point, those things are not 'citizenship rights' or any sort of rights at all that people can demand. They are private transactions between two people, one of which wishes to make sure the other person is who he says he is. They can require anything from someone saying 'Yeah, that's me' to a notarized statement from their parents and the doctor that delivered them and a video recording of them from their birth to present day.

It has nothing to do with citizenship, it has nothing to do with immigration status, it has nothing to do with whether or not they're on the run from the law or if they're time travelers from 2525 here to assassinate JFK. The business transaction requires that they are who they say they are, or, at least, will continue to pretend the person they're pretending to be, so they can be located again.

Trying to make it about citizenship, trying to say that businesses cannot accept any identification they find convincing or no identification at all, is trying to turn this into a 'Paper's please' society.

This is, obviously, ignoring the problem of 'identity theft', but that has nothing, per se, to do with immigration status, and the way to stop that is stop pretending 'identity theft' is a real crime. No, the crime is that a business was defrauded due to their own negligence, and an additional crime is that said business then decided to harm and harass some innocent person. (If I punch someone in the face and give out someone else's name as I do so, and they run over and punch that person in the face, two crimes were just committed, not one. They're as guilty of assault as me.)

Now, until we actually start prosecuting business that harm innocent people because they were defrauded by a third party claiming to be that person, I won't argue against stronger identification of people, but flimsy pieces of plastic are not that.

And the intent of what you're talking is to stop people here illegally from conducting private business transactions with people who don't care they're here illegally, which has nothing to do with preventing fraud. (Didn't conservatives used to be against the government meddling in private business transactions?)

So, what, exactly, is this Farmer's Branch council member doing about it?

Does Farmer's Branch have zoning laws? Are there occupancy laws? Doesn't Farmer's Branch have statutes concerning garbage and junk on the property?

Good question. I have a client (well, I guess he's a client, he doesn't exactly pay the bill) living in a somewhat down-and-out section of Oakland, California, and the city is all over him for the trash he has in his yard. (He does in fact have trash in his yard.) The city is going to make him clean it up. My client, by the way, is of European descent, and his family has been in this country for many generations. (Just in case someone thinks that only illegal immigrants have trash in their yards.)

Surely you-all have similar laws in Texas? Surely these laws could and should be enforced, regardless of the ethnicity of the people involved? What does immigration, legal or otherwise, have to do with any of this?

"had to deal with tiresome Federal employees at Ellis Island, I don't see what is so inhumane about requiring the same inconvenience of other folks' prospective ancestors."

For this analogy to work, you also need to concede that everyone who arrived at Ellis Island--approved or not--was allowed into the country. It was an open border and everyone who arrived was allowed in, until nativists closed off immigration because of Irish and Italians who refused to learn English and caused crime.

You ancestors are likely no different from immigrants arriving on foot over the Rio Grande; uninvited, unapproved, and desparate for a new life. The difference is we took everyone in the days of Ellis Island; now we build walls to keep those people who refuse to learn English and cause crime out.

Lucky your ancestors came at the right time.

I just love these posts:

---------------------

-- You've got people who bought this home in 1956 or 1961, they were beautiful neighborhoods, well taken care of but now...those same people who are widows, widowers or disabled, they can't get out of that house, and they're surrounded by homes with 10, 15 people living in them...

-- a permanent underclass just continues to grow and grow, refusing to assimilate, and if left unchecked will one day cause a civil war...

-- There will no longer be a "United States of America" except in name and Constitution only if this isn't dealt with properly. Immigrants must abide by the laws and ASSIMILATE...

------------------------

Snort. This is almost comedy.

It's real simple, guys: NO KIDS, NO FUTURE. Somebody else will be glad to come and take your neigborhoods, your culture, your land, your language, and your politics. It's called Darwinian natural selection - look into it. A fence only delays the inevitable.

Hard solution: have strong, large families that don't move away. Fill your own damn neigborhoods.

Easy solution: learn Spanish and like it.

Common response: sob (see above posts). Personally, I have zero sympathy. Ideas have consequences. This is the fruit of feminism. Tastes rotten, don't it?

Chris

DavidTC, a society is more than business transactions. Equating everything done as a series of contracts is reductionist-libertarian thinking. A mentally unstable person isn't allowed to purchase a firearm. It doesn't matter that the gun seller doesn't care if the person is mentally unstable. The gun seller has a duty to follow the law and perform the appropriate checks. Since we are being overrun by illegals, it's going to require some checks to get rid of them.

It doesn't require 'some checks'. It requires exactly one: Stopping employers who persistently hire people here illegally.

We don't even need to worry it on the individual level, companies that hire those people hire them in huge amounts. Of the millions of people here illegally, they're working for maybe ten thousand different companies, mostly construction, cleaning, and farming.

It's trivial to track down these employers, charge them, and then, instead of outright fines and court cases, we agree to let them plea guilty and have no punishment if they agree to run each new employee past the government for ten years or whatever.

The reason we don't do this has nothing to do with 'liberals' or anything like that. It has to do with business owners who bribe the Republican party (And Democratic party, to some extent.) to keep that from happening.

That's all it would take to reduce people in this country illegally by 95% in two years. It doesn't require the turning this country into a police state where we have to identify ourselves whenever we do anything, which wouldn't work anyway, because that requires places actually checking ID and turning down business.

We all know how well the honor system works on underaged drinking. That requires constant checks to keep it honest, and there are a lot less places with liquor licenses than residences, and places still manage to sell alcohol to minors despite all the police checks.

(And, of course, I'm ignoring the fact that reducing the amount of people illegally in this country by 95% in two years would be an economic disaster, and it really should take place over a decade or so, but that's not important to my point.)

John E., Embrace the future - marry a Latina!

Love it!

You can bet that while Rod or I--both white guys--wouldn't have been asked at all or gotten away with just showing minimal identificiation, you or your Pedro would have been asked to provide a passport, pressed to show that you are actually a citizen, forced to show multiple forms.

Do you source for these assertions, Comrade Daniel.

And your behind is a poor source for facts, don't pull anything from it in the future.

>>>
Or Else!

Posted by: mik_infidelos | December 31, 2007 3:28 PM
>>>

Would you care to expand on that thoughtful analysis, mik?

Daniel (and mik):

You're absolutely right about landlords not getting training in how to avoid renting to illegal immigrants.

In Rod's defense, though, I suspect there is a strong coalition (as I say elsewhere today in a CC combox) of banks, Realtors, and slumlords in the northwest Dallas suburbs doing redlining and blockbusting for this area to have changed demographically so fast.

On the other hand, Rod, your friend Councilman O'Hare comes across in other DMN interviews I've read on the 'Net as a lot more of a prejudiced bile-spewer than someone looking out for his constituents (or should I say, the white ones).

Parker,

A nobel and worthy endevor.

Changes in demographics can radically change neighborhoods and school systems in a decade, and wipe out much of your home value. As an investment tactic, keep more in bonds and stocks, which are not as easily victimized by the elites.

Michael
Changes in demographics can radically change neighborhoods and school systems in a decade, and wipe out much of your home value. As an investment tactic, keep more in bonds and stocks, which are not as easily victimized by the elites.

Or join everyone else in reality and realize that a home is no more an investment than a car is an investment. A home is something you buy to live in. It is like anything else you buy to use. (Although it is admittedly much more expensive, so you need to pay more attention when buying it.)

It often is a good idea over renting, but it is not an investment. All the people who thought it was an investment are going to get more and more panicked over the next three years as house prices plummet and remain lower then they were in 1990, and lower then they were in 1950 after you factor in inflation. They might even go back to Great Depression prices.

Housing is, in fact, one of the worst concepts to invest in, as housing prices throughout human history have almost exactly tracked inflation, except during recessions when they drop. It's just we had a crazy irrational housing price bubble, for literally the first time in history I've ever heard of, and a lot of people are under some sort of mistaken impression that is the norm and the correction going on now is just going to be a downward blip. No. House do not, on average, increase in value, and that whole concept is literally crazy talk. If anything, they lose value, even if maintained, as technology advances.

Chrissy:

I repeat, did you read Rod's key line of the entire editorial, the one (I thought) both sides agree with, "THE SYSTEM IS A JOKE"?!

If you believe that, the solution -- even if much like Rod and other principled conservatives would want it -- can't possibly be as simple as "illegal is illegal."

Lots of things were illegal for African-Americans in the South (and chunks of the North) until the 1960s, too.

"Penelope is Spanish, not Mexican."

And I am supposed to care about this because...

;-)

And I am supposed to care about this because...

;-)

Because even Mexicans don't like Mexicans. Look at their Hayek -- 'Mestizo' blood. Zilch. Cruz, 100% Spanish. Check out the Miss Mexico winners over the last, say, 20 years. Mexicans are racist against Mexicans!

The Catholic Church was faced with closing churches throughout Southern California but had overfilled congregations South of the Border. All they had to do was bring the parishoners to the empty churches and besides, social reform is the Catholic Church propaganda anyway. Santa Ana CA had INS in the local parish for the convenience of the 'undocumented.'
As for racial animus, Chino CA has the time honored tradition of beating to a pulp any White male who might dare to walk on or near D Street. And this is one of the "Top 100 Communities in the US to Raise a Child!"
With blue eyes, I have never been permitted to shop in any store owned and frequented by Hispanics, however if I had ever treated an Hispanic in that manner, the world would have come down on me.
I wonder why minority violence against Whites is not only recognized as a permissible avenue of expression but conduct that is not criminally sanctioned. Why does our society permit, endorse and encourage acts of racial violence against White males? Any White male walk though Watts since the late 60's? Or any other minority zone without risking life and limb? But if a minority were to suffer 'bad words' the FBI would stand ready. Why is violence condoned?