From the comboxes, here's (Erin) Manning's Corollary to Godwin's Law, which states that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." Here's Manning's Corollary:
In any online conversation about an incident of violence perpetrated by adherents of Islamic fundamentalism, the conversation will inevitably devolve into claims that Christians commit the same type and degree of violent acts, regardless of how demonstrably false that is; further, the claim will be made that past historical violence involving Christians means that present-day Christians are morally incapable of denouncing current violence involving Muslims.
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Gah, Internal Server Error double post..
Equal in danger to the US...most definitely. And you demonstrate the reason why in your unwillingness to acknowledge ALL religious-based terrorism as a threat to the US way of life.
Fascinating. Entirely out of touch with reality, but fascinating.
What you have managed to do is cobble together a list of links of splinter/fringe groups, uniformly condemned by Christians across a spectrum, including myself. I was glad when Paul Hill got the death sentence, for the record. It was just. I'd admire your restraint in not throwing in the Phelps cult, but it must have been an oversight.
OTOH, Wahhabism has been, and is fueled (rimshot!) by billions of petrodollars and our insane relationship with the Saudi theocracy. Unless your local mosque is Shia or Sufi, more likely than not it is affiliated with a Saudi-funded organization, or Saudi-influenced Pakistanis. When your Christian fringers get their hands on comparable cash backing and control a large and growing network of churches and Christian universities around the country, give me a call. Until then, you are engaging in a remarkably tired and odious form of moral equivalence. We're not motivated by the fact people in faraway lands are celebrating the slaughter of 3000 of our fellow citizens. We're motivated by the fact that Islamic terrorists slaughtered 3000 of us. In response, you point to the corpse of Paul Hill, long since justly executed by the State of Florida for his odious crime.
The first link on your Muslim anti-terrorism board is by CAIR. I'm unimpressed. CAIR steadfastly refuses to call either Hezbollah or Hamas terrorist organizations. The rest of the statements are of mixed value, coming from some (like Qaradawi) who have excused hideous violence in other contexts).
The coddling of Hezbollah is significan, in that that terrorist movement inspired Hussein Zorkot, arrested in a Metropolitan Detroit park armed to the teeth a couple of months back:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/1007/1602_war_room_houssein_zorkot.html
Consider the case of Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Reza_Taheri-azar
The shooting at LAX:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesham_Mohamed_Hadayet
The Seattle Jewish Federation shooting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Jewish_Federation_shooting
Then there's the growing numbers of young American Muslims supporting suicide bombings...but why pile on?
Dan Holman sounds like a real POS. I hope he's jailed. But he and his fellow travelers have a much lower body count in our country since 2001.
By all means, focus on the statistically tiny and declining phenomenon of fringe "Christians" committing violence and call that the equivalent of 9/11 and the sudden jihad moments since. I know a hater when I read one.
Dewi: "This does adjust the interpretation of my information, and now suggests that Muslims in the US are more hostile to abortion than Christians, or are more likely to act on that hostility, or both."
The numbers I used for the instances of Christian violence were limited to anti-abortion only. The number of instances of Muslim violence were not limited to only anti-abortion.
"But, as a parting thought, what can we legally do regarding any of these groups and individuals before an actual crime has been committed?"
Precious little in all honesty. Is it illegal to talk about overthrowing the government or attacking a government building? If so, then Pat Robertson should be arrested for suggesting that someone should nuke the State Department.
Talk is not action. Actions should be sanctioned. Conspiracy to commit violence against our nation is more than simply a group of folks sitting around discussing doing it. It involves actions taken to bring that plan to fruition, whether it be procuring the materials/weapons necessary, or moving operatives into place to carry out the actions.
We also need to move away from focusing on one particular ethnic group or religious group. The perpetrators of the Oklahoma City bombing were white males who affiliated with militia groups in the US. I recall in the hours after that bombing there were rumors going around that this was a Muslim attack. Even after what we know today, the rumors continue.
http://www.rense.com/general9/laden.htm
It's really easy to demonize groups of people who are different than us. In doing so we actually open ourselves up to attacks from those who we would normally trust, folks who look/believe/talk like us.
What can we do legally? Be vigilant, punish actions, and stop burying our heads in the sand with the belief that it's folks like "them" not folks like us who provide the greatest threat to our liberties. It takes some soul-searching in order to abandon the prejudices we have, but it's the only thing that will truly help us avoid the danger that religious extremism of ALL forms poses to our nation.
ds:
I'll give you, Huck was more of a "huckster" in his AIDS comments ...
Larry Parker: "I'll give you, Huck was more of a "huckster" in his AIDS comments ..."
Can you imagine the uproar such remarks would create on this blog if they had been uttered by Rep. Keith Ellison, a Muslim?
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